VOGONS


First post, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Was trying to "beef-up" my system with multiple sound cards. My tests are not fully complete yet.

Running System :

Intel Pentium 133MHz
Unico VE-501 Socket 5 Pentium Motherboard, 256kb Ext. Cache
128MB FPM RAM
Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 2MB
Diamond Monster 3D 4MB

Sound Cards:

1. Sound Blaster AWE32 CT2760 A240 I5 P300

2. Sound Blaster 1.5 CT1320 with C/MS Chips A220 I7 P-Disabled

3. Covox Sound Master II A280 I3 P338

4. Music Quest PC MIDI Card ( Fully MPU-401 compliant) I2 P330

The Beast :
dsc00612c0.jpg
As you know most of the AT casings do not have enough vents to let out the air. I wanted to keep better air flow in it. This case is packed with boards! The two smaller fans at the top are two of the fans that I ripped off from a laptop-cooler pad. I opened up the shields which were closing the parallel and serial connector holes to let out all the air. Fortunately the exit points are higher for the hotter air. All the fans are ordinary ones, but selected by me personally for maintaining enough silence.

The cards :
dsc006130.jpg
From Left : CT2760 (with Wave Blaster daughterboard),MQ PC MIDI card, CT1320, Covox SM II.

dsc00614d0.jpg
dsc006160.jpg

The Covox Sound Master II :
dsc006170.jpg

The Mixer Used :
dsc00611o.jpg
A 3-input mixer.

So far, everything runs smoothly (with some exceptions) :

I tested a Sierra game : Colonel's Bequest - The Adlib sounds seem to be shared between the AWE32 and the SB1.5, since I can still hear the music when I mute either sound source through the mixer.

Colonel's Bequest supports C/MS Game Blaster. Played flawlessly.

Tried Ultima VI : I hear some conflicting hisses and noises when I choose Adlib. Some of the notes seem to be overlapped or missed.

No lockups or hangs, though, so I can be sure of no hardware conflicts.

One thing that keeps nagging me is the FM ports from both the creative cards - Both will be using port 388. This may be the cause of the interference and oddities in Ultima VI. But strangely The Colonel's Bequest has no issues with both cards running at the same time.
I think I should disable the FM port in the AWE32 - perhaps using CTCU?

I have changed the FM port in the Covox card, since there is a jumper on the card to change the port address to 380.

Acknowledgement : Thanks very much to both Jan3sobieski for the Sound Master II card and pianoman72 for the C/MS chips!!

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 1 of 31, by Amigaz

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The AWE CT2760 isn't a Pnp card so CTCU won't work but try the (can't remember the name) util on the AWE32 install disk that changes the eprom resource settings on the CT2760 card.

But I think it can't be disabled if I remember correctly

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 2 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Amigaz wrote:

The AWE CT2760 isn't a Pnp card so CTCU won't work but try the (can't remember the name) util on the AWE32 install disk that changes the eprom resource settings on the CT2760 card.

But I think it can't be disabled if I remember correctly

You won't believe but I'm actually using CTCM to initialize this CT2760! Since CTCM takes up no additional conventional memory, I tried using it (from my CT3980) and it works here. DIAGNOSE can change the settings, but it has no control over the FM port.

CTCU, on the other hand, might be able to do something? I need to check back. ( I remember seeing the 388 option in one of the selectable configurations in the CTCU).

EDIT : My mistake, I see your point. Hmmm...calls for other measures then...

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 3 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Wow I only just saw this thread!

What music do you want to play through which card? Just trying to get my head around it...

e.g. which card do you want to handle:

- Digital speech / effects
- FM Music
- Midi
- Joystick

I didn't know that 388 was FM. I always thought it was 220 😒

I noticed you also have a 1.5 with CMS chips. Could you try Prince of Persia for me and see if CMS sound comes through? For me it doesn't but works for DOSBox. It might have a weird way of polling for soundcards and finds the SoundBlaster "first" or something like that...

Reply 4 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I wanted to test out if I can have the widest possible sound options at the same time. The mixer really gives me the peace of mind that I needed from all these jungle of outputs.

Here's what I wanted :

1. Ability to use port 620/640 for the AWE synthesis for games supporting "AWE32",

2. Covox Sound Master/ Speech Thing support for some older games,

3. Game Blaster capability using the C/MS chips (makes you wonder, saying "Wow, old school music in stereo!").

4. Roland GS, GM, MT-32, CM-32L/LAPC-I music through the Roland CM-500, using the Music Quest PC MIDI Card.

5. Joystick through AWE32 - have disabled the joystick port in the SB 1.5.

6. Speech/ Effects through any of the Creative cards.

The best part of SB 1.5 and the PC MIDI card is that, I can directly press F5 to bypass all the startup files, use icd.exe to disable the cache and just load the games supporting adlib or roland sounds for some old games (that don't require SET environment) and start playing them in "286" or "XT" mode. 😁

Now the only problem I'm facing is the FM ports in both the creative cards. If somehow I can "tell" the system to use the FM sounds only from the Sound Blaster 1.5.....

I wonder if there are any TSRs available that can do this... - something like the 3D card selector when using a Voodoo1 or 2 in Windows when the primary card is also a 3D card.

Does the Game Blaster card has the jumpers to change the FM port? Sound Master II has this port but the games that I have tested have no options to select the FM port. Only the I/O address.

Otherwise the only way is to make sure the game uses the FM port from a different I/O address. I think if the game supports the FM port directly, then this problem of confusion arises - both cards are trying to send out FM signals from their respective ports.

More testing is needed. Sierra games might not have problems looking at the Colonel's Bequest trial run.

Ultima 6 threw back my Adlib selection at my face - interference noises.

If only I can disable or change the FM port in the AWE32...

Prince of Persia v1.3 right? Sure, I'll try it.

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 5 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

How about a AWE64 instead of the 32? Yes you would loose the waveblaster, but shouldn't be a big deal considering you have a MPU401 and Roland modules 🤣

The reason I suggest the AWE64 is because you can disable a lot of resources. I had it once set up with just speech! So in games there was no music, just sound effects / speech.

However I believe the capability to play FM is tied to the capability to play AWE synth. But again, not a big loss considering you have Roland options. AFAIK any game that has AWE synth comes with better quality music through Roland...

Another option would be to substitute the 1.5 with a Game Blaster / CMS card. That would solve all your issues with 1 swap.

Reply 6 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

In one of the resource config templates of my AWE64 it lets you change the address from 388 to something else...

Still confused about address 388 (first time I heard this). Did a quick google and I found one document linking address 220 to OPL2 and address 388 to OPL3?

Any truth to this? So if a game talks to 220, does the OPL3 chip also "listen" to this address?

Does changing the address from 220 to 240 on your SB 1.5 help? Because then you would have 240 for the 1.5 and 220 / 388 for the AWE 32.

dsc02013d.jpg

Last edited by Mau1wurf1977 on 2010-11-26, 08:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Heh, yeah, multiple soundcards confirmed that I'll have headaches! 🤣

It's easier to settle down with just the AWE32 and the PC MIDI card. ( Unless of course, if Amigaz is ready to send me his Game Blaster card, complete with box and manual and all, and that too free of charge! Heheheh 🤣)

Anyway, I learnt about the FM port conflict in this marathon. (Didn't think of that before - was concentrating more on the I/O, IRQ and MIDI ports alone.)

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 8 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Aha! That's the one I was talking about! Seems like I need to use a PnP card. Or maybe use the Intel Conifguration Manager (ICM) which came with the CT2760.

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 9 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I used CTCU for this.

Note that once a PnP is installed, it's a pain to change the resources. I recommend you start the install from scratch:

- remove all SB entries in autoexec and config
- deltree SB16 and CTCM root folder
- Install CTCM
- Reboot
- Install SB16 Basic disc

I use the drivers from the Creative wesbite, they work just fine!

I take it that any game for OPL2 will have your issue, but OPL3 should be fine (as the 1.5 doesn't use port 388 at all)

PS: I really like that idea of having all soundcards in one machine 😀 Saves you from changing out cards if you want to do a recording...

How did you configure speech? One at IRQ 5 and the other one at 7? What if a game doesn't allow to change the IRQ? will it just default to 7 first or 5 first (old games seem to look for 7 whereas new ones look for 5).

I always wondered why that is. I know there two ports are shared with LPT1 and LPT2 (printer ports)

Reply 10 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I do use the CTCU extensively with my PnP cards. The trick is in changing the the Configuration Setting which is usually numbered 0,1,2,etc.. Resetting the IRQ via the BIOS and choosing a different configuration number will open up different resources. Certain setting won't allow you to change the resources so easily. Some of my setups (in my newer Win98/DOS hybrid mahine) use the resource setting no. 4 and some no.3 and so on.

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 11 of 31, by retro games 100

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Due to tiredness, right ATM I cannot read all of this post. Sorry. But two things may help:

For AWE32 CT2760, you need to use setcard.exe on the AWE32 CT2760 install disk to set its resources. (However, I think there are different revisions of the CT2760 card.) You'll need to open? the EEPROM jumper on the card before programming, then close? it afterwards.

I think some games look for 388 I/O address. If it's not there, the sound card won't be found.

Reply 12 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Yes, I left the IRQ 7 and I/O 220 to SB 1.5 since that was the norm those days and older games will look for these.

But nice input regarding the OPL2 and the port 388! That's quite new to me.

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 13 of 31, by Malik

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
retro games 100 wrote:

Due to tiredness, right ATM I cannot read all of this post. Sorry. But two things may help:

For AWE32 CT2760, you need to use setcard.exe on the AWE32 CT2760 install disk to set its resources. (However, I think there are different revisions of the CT2760 card.) You'll need to open? the EEPROM jumper on the card before programming, then close? it afterwards.

I think some games look for 388 I/O address. If it's not there, the sound card won't be found.

I'll try that too! Thanks!

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 14 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I think it's testing time...

* runs off and grabs a few sound cards * 🤣

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 16 of 31, by Amigaz

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Malik wrote:
You won't believe but I'm actually using CTCM to initialize this CT2760! Since CTCM takes up no additional conventional memory, […]
Show full quote
Amigaz wrote:

The AWE CT2760 isn't a Pnp card so CTCU won't work but try the (can't remember the name) util on the AWE32 install disk that changes the eprom resource settings on the CT2760 card.

But I think it can't be disabled if I remember correctly

You won't believe but I'm actually using CTCM to initialize this CT2760! Since CTCM takes up no additional conventional memory, I tried using it (from my CT3980) and it works here. DIAGNOSE can change the settings, but it has no control over the FM port.

CTCU, on the other hand, might be able to do something? I need to check back. ( I remember seeing the 388 option in one of the selectable configurations in the CTCU).

EDIT : My mistake, I see your point. Hmmm...calls for other measures then...

I'm afraid the FM port is hardwired

Have you set the AWE32 port 2xx to not conflict with the CM/S 220h port?

My retro computer stuff: https://lychee.jjserver.net/#16136303902327

Reply 17 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Well I'm going to join the fun! I configured:

AWE 64:
240
330
5
1
5

SB 1.5

220
7
1

Now I tested with the Game descent, because it has a setup menu where you can choose between OPL2 and OPL3 and quickly run a test! I noticed that it shows 388 for OPL2 and OPL3 and just like you I get music from both cards! For OPL2 AND OPL3!

The 1.5 plays MONO of course, and the AWE64 Stereo.

I also noticed that with OPL3 the music plays kinda "slowed down". OPL2 plays fine!

Ok I will move the FM from 388 to something else and see what happens...

Speech however refuses to play from the 1.5. Will only play from the AWE card! I'm sharing DMA 1 though, I will change that and see what happens 😀

Reply 18 of 31, by retro games 100

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Regarding Descent, OPL3 and "slowed down" sounding music. One possibility is that there is something incorrect about Descent's sound setup routine. Other Vogons members have noticed this issue, on a variety of hardware configurations.

Reply 19 of 31, by Mau1wurf1977

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Oh well just switch to General Midi!

Ok I now changed 388 to 390!

Doom FM, Wing Commander FM and Decent OPL2 FM now play from the 1.5 alone. Nothing comes out from the AWE.

However selecting OPL3 music in Descent = no music whatsoever! So it looks like changing 388 to 390 on the AWE64 makes that FM synth basically "disappear". I don't think any programmer thought about changing this...

Also the AWE synth sounds rather good with Descent!

My (very early) conclusion: While it's possible to change the port to something else than 388, it seems no game can take advantage of that. I certainly have never seen a setup menu ask for 388 and let me change that. That's why I was so surprised when I read 388 in this forum...

If you are happy to have only OPL2 in your system that's fine.

However if you want both it looks like sharing port 388 with both sound cards is the way to go. Yes you hear FM from both cards, but is this really a problem? It also supports OPL2 through the 1.5 and when you specifically select OPL3 you will get Stereo through the AWE (and mono through the 1.5).

I also changed DMA to 3 on the AWE card. I can select speech in Descent to come out on either card, same for DOOM!

Wing Commander 2 gets confused in the setup menu and tells me no Soundblaster found, but it's nice enough to let me choose all the resources and then the game works (On a P133 at full speed 😀

EDIT EDIT: having 2 cards (maybe 3 or 4?) play FM music all at the same time would make a great setup to do a comparison recording / video. Hook up a cross fader or input selector switch and you can switch back and forth between soundcards and listen to the differences...

Awesome!