VOGONS


Reply 60 of 108, by stamasd

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PARUS wrote:

I think most people never used SB Link on boards which have ISA bus. Because it's madness to want SB Link if you have ISA. SB Link is needed on boards which haven't ISA. But manufacturers removed it exactly when ISA was removed. And it is doubly madness.

Not necessarily. For instance if you have a board that has only 1 ISA and SB-Link, you could use the ISA for your GUS or LAPC-I (or other card for which no PCI version exists) and still have a very SB-compatible card as PCI.

I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 61 of 108, by PARUS

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Yes, I'm agree. But not agree at the same time. ISA bus has not limitation of slots number. All signal lines are parallel. For best using you can plug into even single slot a riser and it's working on any mobo. I use 5 slots riser. But it requires custom case.

Reply 63 of 108, by j^aws

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^^ It's really simple:
- It releases an ISA slot for something else. I can always find usage for another ISA slot. This forum likes to stuff ISA slots with sound cards, whilst I can do that and stuff ISA slots with VGA cards, amongst other things as well (Reelmagic, for example).
- Compatibility is very high with the right card, and you get access to quieter DACs, SPDIF etc. in general, whilst still benefitting from PCI features (Sensaura 3D, DS3D etc.).
- As you mention with an ISA riser card, you would need a custom case - not everyone wants to build a custom case when you can easlily just get another stock case.

Besides, I agree that SB-Libk makes more sense on boards without ISA slots, but (Un)Creative Labs went another direction when they picked up Ensoniq and subsequently continued using a software solution; and killing SB-Link as a consequence. Who knows, if it was adopted as a standard, we may have had it developed further where one could use multiple SB-Links on a board without any ISA slots...

Reply 64 of 108, by hard1k

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Moreover, in this case SB-Link might have been used by other peripherals requiring DMA, not only sound cards.
I guess it's not Creative (though I do hate them for killing three my favourite companies and subsequently the entire PC sound card industry) but Intel and Microsoft with their "recommendations" who finally made this idea obsolete.

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 65 of 108, by j^aws

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^^ Yeah, if you put these factors into place:

- CT Labs (market leader) went with a software solution instead of SB-Link...
- Microsoft couldn't wait to replace DOS with NT...
- Intel couldn't wait to replace ISA with PCI...

SB-Link didn't really have a chance. If it was accepted as an official PCI 2.x specification by all concerned, then it may have lived longer.

Reply 66 of 108, by mattrock1988

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Wow. I must thank all of you for your efforts in providing information on motherboards with SBLink capabilities.

I actually did another retro build that is now my daily driver, which uses an Intel SE440BX2 motherboard. It has SBLink, but I use a real ISA SoundBlaster AWE64 instead.

That being said... I'd really like to utilize real SPDIF, as the implementation on the AWE64 Gold seems rather limited at best.

Retro PC: Intel Pentium III @ 1 GHz, Intel SE440BX-2, 32 GB IDE DOM, 384 MB SDRAM, DVD-ROM, 1.44 MB floppy, Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti 4600 AGP, Creative SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold, Aureal Vortex 2, DreamBlaster S2

Reply 67 of 108, by PARUS

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mattrock1988 wrote:

Intel SE440BX2 motherboard. It has SBLink, but I use a real ISA SoundBlaster AWE64 instead.

Look all, another man said a same. And many people will say it, who doubt? I think using PC/PCI for SB and ISA for GUS/etc is a perversion and impractical imagination. IF you don't like mobos with single ISA slot (and riser) it is resonable and better to find another one with two-three slots. Thank to God, it is not hard to do.

Reply 68 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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Found another board with SB-Link

Intel CA810

I found an ebay listing of an Intel CA810 for 9.50 €, then i looked on the pic and saw the PC/PCI header

the board has only PCI, no AGP nor ISA, supports PPGA Celeron, Pentium III and FC-PGA Celerons are supported in later revisions (A09251-300 or later,
A09253-300 or later.), chipset is the original 810

Intel CA810E has also the SB-Link header, the CA810E is an updated CA810 with the 810E and ICH2, also coppermine support in all revisions

i can say the retail models does have SB-Link, idk about the OEM versions, i know the IBM OEM verision of the CA810 has SB-Link, but not other OEMs

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 69 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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Found more QDI boards with PC/PCI, there are some i didn't list because they were listed before on this thread

Pentium 4 boards:
QDI PlatiniX 8/333 (i845GE, solder pads only, basically a PlatiniX 2E/333 with an Intel 845GE and onboard video instead of an 845PE and no video)
QDI PlatiniX 8 (i845G, at least i saw a board with the header, basically a PlatiniX 2E with the 845G and oboard video instead of an 845E)
QDI PlatiniX 1 (i845,has the header, basically an mATX version of the PlatiniX 2)
QDI PlatiniX 1D (i845D,has the header, basically an mATX version of the PlatiniX 2D)
QDI PlatiniX 2E (i845E,has the header)
QDI PlatiniX 2D (i845D, has the header, DDR version of the Platinix 2)
QDI PlatiniX 1E (i845E, has the header, mATX version of the Platinix 2E)
QDI PlatiniX 2D/533 (i845E, has the header)
QDI PlatiniX 2E V2.0 (i845E, solder pads only?)
QDI Platinix 2E Pro (i845E, solder pads only?)
QDI PlatiniX 2S (i845D, has the header, Platinix 2D variant with possible RAID and onboard Rage XL)
QDI PlatiniX 4X (i850, has the header)
QDI PlatiniX 4N (i850, has the header)

Pentium III boards:
QDI SynactiX 2E (i815E, has the header)
QDI SynactiX 2EP (i815EP, has the header)
QDI SynactiX 5EP (i815EP, has the header)
QDI SynactiX 5EP V2 (i815EP, has the header)
QDI WinneX 1 PCB 3.x (i810, has the header)
QDI WinneX 1E (i810E, has the header)
QDI WinneX 1E2 (i810E2, has the header)
QDI CenturieX 2 (i820 w/ MTH, has the header)
QDI BrillianX 9 (i440BX, has the header)

Celeron PPGA boards:
QDI WinneX 1 PCB 1.x and 2.x (i810, has the header)
QDI WinneX 5 (i810, has the header)

Slot 1 boards:
QDI CenturieX 1 (i820, has the header)
QDI WinneX 2 (i810, has the header)
QDI WinneX 2E (i810E, has the header)
QDI WinneX 3 (i810, has the header)
QDI WinneX 3E (i810E, has the header)
QDI BrillianX I (i440BX, has the header)
QDI BrillianX V (i440BX, has the header)
QDI BrillianX IS/2000 (i440BX, has the header)
QDI Advance 4 (VIA 691, has the header)
QDI Advance 5 (VIA 693, has the header)
QDI Advance 5/133 (VIA 693A, has the header)
QDI Advance 5/133E (VIA 693A, has the header)

Dual CPU:
QDI TwinMagic (i440BX, has the header)

I couldn't find info about PC/PCI on:
QDI PlatiniX 1E/333 (mATX version of the Platinix 2E/333)
QDI P4I875P (seems to have solder pads for someting like PC/PCI, but i can't really identify that)

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 70 of 108, by White

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I have one more board with SB-Link, maybe you know, but...
Chaintech 6BTM0 board. Soft Menu (It is not perfect, but....), 3x ISA, SB-Link, Tualatin unofficial support, but works fine.Really good board.

Reply 71 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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Found another board with SB-Link

Gigabyte GA-6VXE7+, is a Socket 370 VIA Apollo Pro133/693A motherboard, it uses the VIA VT82C586B Southbridge and already have 2 ISA slots...

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 72 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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Found another board with SB-Link

Wintac/Wintec/Wintech/Edom W6BXA

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 73 of 108, by NightSprinter

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I'm confused, why would the SE440BX-2 board that I have include the PC/PCI connector if it already has a Yamaha YMF740-C integrated into it? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having the connector in the first place?

Reply 74 of 108, by cyclone3d

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NightSprinter wrote:

I'm confused, why would the SE440BX-2 board that I have include the PC/PCI connector if it already has a Yamaha YMF740-C integrated into it? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having the connector in the first place?

The YMF740 is a cut down version of the chip. Yeah, it still has OPL3, but the rest of it is cut down.

And you could always use a different PCI card with the PC_PCI connector or if the onboard sound dies.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 75 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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cyclone3d wrote:
NightSprinter wrote:

I'm confused, why would the SE440BX-2 board that I have include the PC/PCI connector if it already has a Yamaha YMF740-C integrated into it? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having the connector in the first place?

The YMF740 is a cut down version of the chip. Yeah, it still has OPL3, but the rest of it is cut down.

And you could always use a different PCI card with the PC_PCI connector or if the onboard sound dies.

There are SE440BX and SE440BX-2 boards without onboard audio (it was an optional feature), also the Dell version of the SE440BX (used on Dimension XPS R) and SE440BX-3 (used on Dimension XPS T) lacks the onboard audio so is not really that useless

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 76 of 108, by NightSprinter

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I gotcha now. It's a shame that the board seems to also lack decent performance with universal AGP cards. The PC/PCI connector does make for a worthwhile backup plan for a proper Yamaha card at least.

Reply 77 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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Acer V66M (Slot 1, 440BX) has solder pads for SB-Link between the first two PCI slots

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 78 of 108, by Carlos S. M.

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Other ASUS P2B variants seems to have the SB-Link header too

ASUS P2B-B (Baby AT version)
ASUS P2B-F (4 DIMM slot version)
ASUS P2B-D (dual slot version)
ASUS P2B-DS (dual slot version w/ SCSI)
ASUS P2B-D2 (dual slot version, server version without AGP and i960 controller, has SCSI)
ASUS P2B-S (onboard SCSI)
ASUS P2B-L (onboard LAN)
ASUS P2B-LS (onboard LAN/SCSI)
ASUS P2B-VM (onboard ATI Rage Pro or IIC, may or may not have AGP slot depending of variant)
ASUS P2B-98XV (onboard ATI Rage Pro, no AGP slot, might have the header or only solder pads for it)
ASUS P2B-VE (HP OEM, onboard ATI Rage Pro, may have solder pads for SB-Link header)

Also other slot 1 and probably socket 370 ASUS boards comes with the header too
ASUS P2-99 (440ZX version of the ASUS P2B)
ASUS P2B-VT (HP OEM, not an actual P2B motherboard due to the VIA Apollo Pro133 chipset, may have solder pads for SB-Link)
ASUS P3B-F (might have solder pads for SB-Link)
ASUS P2V (VIA Apollo Pro+ version of the P2B, has the header, but undocumented)
ASUS P2V-B (VIA Apollo Pro+ version of the P2B-B, may or may not have the header (possibly solder pads), undocumented)
ASUS P3V133 (VIA Apollo Pro133 version of the P3B, may or may not have the header (possibly solder pads), undocumented)
ASUS MEB (Socket 370 PPGA motherboard, 440BX chipset, has the header)
ASUS MEB-M (Socket 370 PPGA motherboard, 440BX chipset, has the header)
ASUS MEB-VM (Socket 370 PPGA motherboard, 440BX chipset, has the header, onboard Rage Pro/Rage IIC)
ASUS CUBX (Socket 370 FC-PGA motherboard, 440BX chipset, has solder pads for the header)
ASUS CUBX-E (Socket 370 FC-PGA motherboard, 440BX chipset, has solder pads for the header)

What is your biggest Pentium 4 Collection?
Socket 423/478 Motherboards with Universal AGP Slot
Socket 478 Motherboards with PCI-E Slots
LGA 775 Motherboards with AGP Slots
Experiences and thoughts with Socket 423 systems

Reply 79 of 108, by dr.zeissler

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Any FSC (FujitsuSiemens) PCI-only Boards known with SB-Link ?

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington