Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-5-01 @ 23:58

If possible , please do 32 bit float point in OPL3 GM synth ) beause this synth create noise about -63 dB. This not good and I wantin what would this noise no was be.

As you may have noticed OPL3VSTi is a VST plugin that uses either DosBox or Nuked OPL3 libraries for rendering. None of them supports native 32-bit floating point currently.
So you should convince either the DosBox team or Nukeykt to support it:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37782
Just a reminder: The primary goal of Nukeykt's OPL3 library was/is to be a bit perfect emulation library of YMF262. So supporting features that the original hardware did not support (like 32-bit floating point rendering) maybe is not something that he is willing to add.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Roland User » 2019-5-02 @ 10:23

In MUNT also was be only channels 2-10 or if reconfigure , will be 1-9 and absent channels 1,11-16 or if reconfigure 9,11-16 ) but this now have ) also I offer do with 32 render mode ) check box on/off if this possible )
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-5-02 @ 10:56

In MUNT also was be only channels 2-10 or if reconfigure , will be 1-9 and absent channels 1,11-16 or if reconfigure 9,11-16 ) but this now have ) also I offer do with 32 render mode ) check box on/off if this possible )

I do not understand even a single word from the above :). Please be more precise, or at least try again with Google translate.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Roland User » 2019-5-02 @ 18:15

I say about , what in MUNT also was be only 16 bit int renderer and was be only 8 channel parts , but you extended this from 16 bit int renderer to 32 bit float pont renderer optional , and next you extended MUNT from 8 MIDI channels to 16 MIDI channels in dual synth mode.
I offer do also and with OPL3GM synth ) if possible - add mode 32 bit render )
Switch as use 16 bit render or 32 bit FP render leave.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-5-02 @ 20:29

but you extended this from 16 bit int renderer to 32 bit float pont renderer

Ahh OK, now I understand what you mean, but you are wrong :). It was not me, but Serg who 'extended' the base Munt library to handle 32-bit float rendering:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=51306
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=51306&start=20#p574934

Without this modification to core Munt emulation library by Serg I could not have done it in MuntVSTi plugin. The relation between emulation library and plugin is exactly the same in case of OPL3VSTi: without support in the base library (DosBox/Nuked OPL3) I can not add native 32-bit floating point rendering to OPL3VSTi plugin.

(To be clear what 'supporting floating point' could mean from my VSTi plugin's point of view: Without native support by the emulation library I could only add converted/emulated floating point support since supporting floating point is a required feature in case of VSTi plugins.
That's why you can see 2 different labels on MuntVSTi's user interface like 'VST: 32-bit', 'Munt: 16-bit'. The 1st one refers to the plugin to host interface that is mandatory to be floating point. This is also present in OPL3VSTi. It can be either 32-bit float or 64-bit float. The 2nd one refers to the native rendering mode of the emulation library itself. It can be either 16-bit int or 32-bit float in case of Munt. This 2nd option is the one that requires explicit support from the emulation library. And this is what is currently missing from both DosBox and Nuked OPL3 libraries. More precisely it is always 16-bit int)

next you extended MUNT from 8 MIDI channels to 16 MIDI channels in dual synth mode.

This is a completely different story since 'extending' supported channels or using 2 instances of the synth does not require special support from the base library. That's why there is a kind of 'dual synth mode' also in OPL3VSTi.
I hope it's clear for you now why you should first try to convince the library authors (DosBox team, Nukeykt) to add support for 32-bit float processing. So once again:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37782
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby RetroGC » 2019-5-04 @ 21:17

> Solved. Sorry. Aldo <

Just another question: I'm recording some midi files using for each midi a different soundfont (and now this works great). Now, when i'm recording tracks i've selected form the microphone button the option: "What you Hear", because I was trying to record music, enabling and disabling hardware DSP of my soundblaster SB-X, but while what i'm hearing changes... files generated are identical with and without hardware DSP...

Thank you.

Aldo
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Roland User » 2019-5-06 @ 19:58

I very recomended use for write sound this cables https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/ ) this correctly write without disortion of Creative DSP-s)
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-5-06 @ 20:28

RetroGC wrote:> Solved. Sorry. Aldo <

Just another question: I'm recording some midi files using for each midi a different soundfont (and now this works great). Now, when i'm recording tracks i've selected form the microphone button the option: "What you Hear", because I was trying to record music, enabling and disabling hardware DSP of my soundblaster SB-X, but while what i'm hearing changes... files generated are identical with and without hardware DSP...

Thank you.

Aldo


Hi,
1. In the WinXP era in case of SB Live/Audigy hardware SF2 synths 'What You Hear' always meant the 'wet' recording source and 'Midi' was the 'dry' counterpart. But since Vista independent hardware recording sources are not available anymore so 'What You Hear' only means some kind of loopback source/device (mainly for recording Wave) and it's completely driver dependent whether it provides wet or dry signal. Anyway FSMP has nothing to do with this, it can only record what the driver provides be it wet or dry signal.
2. If you use the 'internal' recording through Bassmidi soft synth then of course hardware DSP effects are missing since Bassmidi records its own internal signal before it reaches the hardware DSP/mixer. In this 2nd case recording does not use any real recording sources such as 'What You Hear' but internal infrastructure of Bass. Actually there is a hint about this behavior on the Microphone button saying:
Select Midi or Stereo Mix (XP)
Set recording level (Vista+)
Not relevant for BassMidi/VSTi!

You can also find details about this in the 'FAQ/How-to' document:
http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_howto.html#a8

Instead in internal Bassmidi recording mode you can use VST effects and/or the internal Bass/Treble sliders.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-5-10 @ 05:15

Roland User wrote:If possible , please do 32 bit float point in OPL3 GM synth ) beause this synth create noise about -63 dB.

I have just tested and only Nuked OPL3 is affected by this high noise floor phenomenon. DosBox OPL3 core is absolutely noiseless (-Inf) in idle state. In this respect DosBox OPL3 is even better than SC-VA. So you simply should not check 'Use Nuked OPL3 library' on the interface. The advantage of Nuked OPL3 is bit perfect emulation but in this case it's exactly what you want to avoid. In Nuked OPL3 noise seems to be added deliberately. See OPL3_NoiseGenerate() in Nuked OPL3 library. So this phenomenon actually has nothing to do with 16-bit int vs. 32-bit float rendering.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby DracoNihil » 2019-5-10 @ 21:12

I presume the noise is emulating a deficiency in how a real OPL3 typically sounds on a real soundcard equipped with one.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Postby Roland User » 2019-5-17 @ 09:49

Falcosoft
Thank you ) now I understand causin this noise )
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