James-F wrote:

Ozzuneoj wrote:

Are you sure? This is the first I've heard of this. I've had several recommendations to just plain avoid using digital+MPU401 on any SB16 "just in case" the hanging note bug happens.
If you can find any threads where this has been tested extensively and proven, then someone should certainly edit that wiki and explain that the "type 2" problem is not related to Soundblasters.

What proof do you need? I extensively tested several models of SB16 and gathered a lot of information. It's well known and tested that a SB16 card with the CT1747 Bus Interface is free of the hanging note bug.
Well you shouldn't avoid a SB16 with a CT1747 for it's hanging note bug, but for its single-cycle DMA mode clicking bug, which older SB1/2 games typically use.

Then please, have someone clarify or fix the Vogons Wiki page that specifies this:

Bugged (Type 2 only)

CT2230 - SB 16 Multi-CD CSP
CT2290 - SB 16 PRO CSP
CT2760 - SB AWE 32 Multi-CD
CT3900 - SB AWE 32 IDE
CT3980 - SB AWE 32 IDE

Bug-free

CT1730 - SB 16
CT1740 (DSP ≤4.05) - SB 16 CSP
CT1750 (DSP 4.05) - SB 16 Multi-CD CSP
CT1770 (DSP 4.05) - SB 16 SCSI-2
AWE64 cards (DSP 4.16)

This clearly says that there are cards that do and cards that don't suffer from the "type 2" bug. If you've found that it doesn't exist at all, or that it occurs on all cards (including the ones mentioned as Bug Free) then this absolutely has to be updated, as it is THE FIRST GOOGLE SEARCH RESULT when searching for "SB16 hanging note bug". I'm not trying to be a pain, I just think that if people are going to be buying components for retro systems based on the recommendations of one person, it would be helpful if that person could explain why their observations are different than other established information on the subject. I understand and greatly appreciate that you've done a lot around here to provide clarification and even fixes for several sound card related problems recently, but I would still expect explanations for findings that are contrary to the findings of others. In the case of an infrequent bug that is not easy to reproduce, I think its quite hard to test unless you use the CT2230 for a very long time before you can say that the problem doesn't exist.

There are posts in this thread that mention that MIDI bugs do exist on CT1747 hardware, even if they are less common...
Re: Hanging note problems with SB16 and DBs

Type 2 hanging note bug is directly related to the Stuttering of BUILD (Duke3D, Blood) and IMUSE (Tie Fighter, Sam&Max) sound engine games when using high sampling rates.
When a game stutters or freezes the midi signals also stop transmitting while the previous note still plays, hence a long hanging note, when the game un-freezes sometimes the midi will not receive a proper Note-Off signal so the note will keep playing, but this is very very rare.
This stuttering "bug" also exists on the AWE64, but no one ever encountered it, it is that rare.

Ozzuneoj, to address your concerns around the MIDI hanging note bug, if you have to buy a Sound Blaster 16 or AWE based card (that is not on the list of "bug-free" cards in your post), then get one with a CT-1747 chip.
For all practical purposes, you don't then have to worry about a MIDI hanging note bug.

James-F wrote:

Type 2 hanging note bug is directly related to the Stuttering of BUILD (Duke3D, Blood) and IMUSE (Tie Fighter, Sam&Max) sound engine games when using high sampling rates.
When a game stutters or freezes the midi signals also stop transmitting while the previous note still plays, hence a long hanging note, when the game un-freezes sometimes the midi will not receive a proper Note-Off signal so the note will keep playing, but this is very very rare.
This stuttering "bug" also exists on the AWE64, but no one ever encountered it, it is that rare.

Thanks for explaining. This is good to know, as I have an interest in playing several Lucas Arts games that use IMUSE. If this bug exists on certain cards while playing IMUSE games, but doesn't occur on others, then it'd be safe to say that the non-bugged cards would be preferred, right? Even if its rare, its existence shouldn't be ignored when making recommendations, especially when all of us agree that there is no benefit to using an SB16 over an SBPro compatible in any DOS games.

To me, anything close to an ideal DOS gaming system wouldn't involve using a card known to have specific bugs in games that are going to be played, even if they are rare.

If its possible for anyone here to update that Vogons Wiki page to explain in detail what the "Type 2" hanging note bug is, exactly what games it occurs in and how common it is, that will probably prevent this topic from coming up all the time. Again, it is the #1 Google search result when people look this topic up, so if it contains all of the relevant info, there don't have to be discussions asking for clarification or disagreements on whether it is significant enough to bring up in threads like this.

I have 3 SB16s without the hanging note bug (DSP 4.05) 2x CT1740s and 1x CT1770 SCSI

my others do have the hanging note bug like the CT2830, CT1770 with DSP 4.13 and CT1740 with DSP 4.12

I also have a SB Pro 2 which is a good card, free of the hanging note bug, and is compatible with many DOS games

The SB Pro 2 is a good card (a little pricey for me, though). I'd like to point out, however, that not only is it free of the hanging note bug, it's also free of MPU-401 support!

None of the SB16 cards are any really good for use with external MIDI.

You could use a second SB16 for the UART only, as the MIDI bugs are largely not present if you are not using the digital audio on the card, or get a custom UART midi card.

I thought I heard something about a new clone that supports MPU-401 Intelligent mode. IIRC, Akbkuku got one gratis. Anyone know anything about something like this? Real Rolands are history, and everything else I've seen is UART only.

Yes, there are two projects for what you want -- Keropi's re-engineered Music Quest clones and ab0tj's HardMPU.

(Original photos can be found on the respective forum threads).