The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-06-23, 18:44:

Almost 14 years old, official support for everything major dropped long time ago - retro. Heck, Windows 98 acquired retro status without even reaching 10 year mark.

Yeah, Windows 98 was retro right away after its release. 😉

I think Vista hovers on that line along with SATA and PCI Express. However, while everyone knows about the issues with SSDs under Windows 98, etc; Vista was built for the era of spinning platters too. Windows 7 may only be NT 6.1 to Vista's 6.0, but it supports SSDs out of the box. Vista is vintage at least in that usability regard.

Somewhat similar a debate could have been had in the past regarding USB mass storage support comparing Windows 98 (4.1) to Me (4.9 (98 Third Edition by any other name)).

Big Pink wrote on 2021-06-23, 22:00:

I think Vista hovers on that line along with SATA and PCI Express. However, while everyone knows about the issues with SSDs under Windows 98, etc; Vista was built for the era of spinning platters too. Windows 7 may only be NT 6.1 to Vista's 6.0, but it supports SSDs out of the box. Vista is vintage at least in that usability regard.

While I really would like to fully agree, there also were a few SSD technologies which the old maid introduced.. 🙁

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive#History

In the same way WinME is retro...the bad kind 🤣

but it supports SSDs out of the box

Windows 7 added TRIM command on one file system and only via ATA interface. File system is not NTFS, storage is USB or SCSI/SAS (interface commands)? Tough luck - no TRIM. Also not capable to Secure Erase SSD and defrag utility is not aware of SSDs. So calling it "SSD support out of the box" is overstatement. Although later Windows 7 received NVME support via update and fixed SCSI/SAS issue.

On the other hand, Vista was well aware of solid state storages and can cache some files to them via ReadyBoost.

Vista IMO can't be retro because 7 is basically a rebrand of Vista with all the Vista updates included.

Microsoft is repeating the same error with the "new" Windows 11 which is just a rebrand of 10 + updates and a awkward theme update.

Bruninho wrote on 2021-06-24, 02:24:

Microsoft is repeating the same error with the "new" Windows 11 which is just a rebrand of 10 + updates and a awkward theme update.

Which in turn is just a refurbished Windows 8.x..

That being said, Windows 8 was at least partially pretty to look at.
On a side by side comparison, Windows 1x looks very bleak.

What I do miss from 8.x is that blue side-bar thingy with the WLAN stations.

This is akin to Windows 7 vs Vista, think.:

Windows 7 was technically much more defined, but Vista had much prettier optics.

Just think of that glossy, cool black taskbar with the blue marble (start button) !
Like a hommage to our blue planet.

Also, the desktop gadgets. They were useful, actually.

But that's 21th century Microsoft. Instead of making things selectable for users that find them useful,
the company tries something new and if it's no big success, abandons it all together.

In my opinion, that's no better than Apple. Rather, worse.
Apple at least used to have this whole family thing going on.
Ie, the company never bad mouths its own products.
Microsoft by contrast, denies its own products whenever it suits the company.

Windows 8.x was very colorful, perhaps too much so. Win10 tried to reduce the active colors to a few select shades. It may look bleak, but overtime creates less sensory overload.

I think many of the Vista visual themes can be ported to Win7 or somehow made to work there, so you can get the best of both worlds.

When I first heard the term "retro" it refereed to newly made things such as the Kawasaki W650, Hinkly Triumph twins, the new mini and such with older styling. It did not refer to old kit back then at all. That was considered just junk and could be had at very little cost.

Of course that was also when those fabulous 32-bit Intel P4 based systems were common place running XP.. 😉

Jo22 wrote on 2021-06-26, 14:58:

What I do miss from 8.x is that blue side-bar thingy with the WLAN stations.

Also, the desktop gadgets. They were useful, actually.

Windows 11 is bringing back widgets. They will be on a slide-out thing from the side of the screen and can be made whole screen. We'll see if they or someone else makes it pinnable.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-26, 16:57:

When I first heard the term "retro" it refereed to newly made things such as the Kawasaki W650, Hinkly Triumph twins, the new mini and such with older styling.

I know. I know. But semantic shift is an extant linguistic phenomenon to the point where a word can flip meaning in just a few centuries. It happened a lot quicker with 'Retro'. Must be Future Shock.

Big Pink wrote on 2021-06-23, 22:00:

while everyone knows about the issues with SSDs under Windows 98, etc; Vista was built for the era of spinning platters too. Windows 7 may only be NT 6.1 to Vista's 6.0, but it supports SSDs out of the box. Vista is vintage at least in that usability regard.

Windows XP has no problem seeing my solid state drives :\

Windows XP has no problem seeing my solid state drives :\

Of course, SSDs were a thing since late 90s. But "SSD support" is commonly associated with managed by OS TRIM command, although Windows 7 has very limited support for TRIM, as I've mentioned above.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-06-28, 11:32:

Of course, SSDs were a thing since late 90s. But "SSD support" is commonly associated with managed by OS TRIM command, although Windows 7 has very limited support for TRIM, as I've mentioned above.

Has it improved in 8.x/10?

Yes, Windows 8+ can automatically and manually (via defrag) initiate TRIM on any interface (ATA/SAS/NVME/USB). But AFAIK limitation for NTFS is still there, i.e. no TRIM on FAT32 or ExFAT.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-06-28, 12:01:

Yes, Windows 8+ can automatically and manually (via defrag) initiate TRIM on any interface (ATA/SAS/NVME/USB). But AFAIK limitation for NTFS is still there, i.e. no TRIM on FAT32 or ExFAT.

I can confirm the TRIM on NTFS only (not FAT32) in Windows 10 . See Re: Planning to install SSD in my Windows 98 machine. Help, advice, suggestions, etc.?

Additionally, though TRIM can work over ATA (IDE), at least under DOS (works for FAT32 using RLOEW's TRIM utility) and Linux (fstrim does not work for FAT32 at last check, but does appear to work for NTFS, for example), not all IDE to SATA converter allow it to work (JMicron and Marvell ones do, Sunplus ones do not) . I have not tried TRIM on any such adapted (IDE to SATA) devices under Windows 10 . My point is that even under Windows TRIM on NTFS volumes may not always work through at least some interface converters, not necessarily due to a Windows 10 limitation, but because of the converter used .

SSDs are really old,

I have 2,5mbyte SSD from sun disk with ide 44 connector

BTW some motherboards from Vista period had onboard NAND for ReadyBoost: https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/8283 … erboard/?page=2

I think many of the Vista visual themes can be ported to Win7 or somehow made to work there

You can port Vista theme even on Windows 10.

windows 7 is pretty much Vista MK II and I can run vista drivers on 7 so I think when 7 is retro so is vista

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-06-28, 12:01:

Yes, Windows 8+ can automatically and manually (via defrag) initiate TRIM on any interface (ATA/SAS/NVME/USB). But AFAIK limitation for NTFS is still there, i.e. no TRIM on FAT32 or ExFAT.

there are 3rd party solutions for that