A lot of very informative and insightful posts overnight, thanks to everyone who chimed in 😀
jesolo wrote on 2020-04-30, 19:03:
This might make for some interesting reading material: The Ultimate 486 Benchmark Comparison
Oh I know this great benchmark but thank you for reminding me once again!
jesolo wrote on 2020-04-30, 19:03:I do agree that, for a 486, floating point performance should not really be a deciding factor.
From a gaming perspective, very few games (that could run satisfactory on a 486) made use of the FPU and would run just as well on any of these CPU's.
My choice is probably the AMD 5x86-133 (although, my plan is to actually build up 486 systems with all 3 CPU's, just for fun).
I won't be playing Quake on this PC at all so FPU will not be a factor at all, I would think. I doubt I'll ever install even Windows 95, at most I may install OS/2 Warp 3, and even that will happen if I don't install it on my PS/1 DX2-66, which is very likely to be honest as it would make a cool theme build.
jesolo wrote on 2020-04-30, 19:03:EDIT: You didn't mention how much RAM your PC has. If you intend on running OS/2 Warp 3, make sure you have sufficient RAM.
Not set in stone but back in 1993 my DX-33 had 4MB and in 1995 my DX4-100 had 8MB RAM. RAM was EXPENSIVE back then, as noted above in this thread.
2Mourty wrote on 2020-04-30, 19:31:
I've always enjoyed my cyrix 5x86 120. I have one of the blue ibm ones. Doesn't need a buzzy little fan like the POD83, and I can defintley feel a difference from the dx2/66 that I had before it. Since you don't plan on installing win95 though I'm guessing all of those cpu's will feel pretty snappy.
My CPU is an IBM 100 as well but not the one with the blue heatsink..
I am really curious about this chip so I may actually go with this just for the sake of building something more exotic 😀
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-04-30, 21:34:Back in 1993 computer companies where sell this build as a multimedia computer but it was under powered.
486dx-33
4mb ram
64kb. […]
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Back in 1993 computer companies where sell this build as a multimedia computer but it was under powered.
486dx-33
4mb ram
64kb. Cache.
ISA motherboard
Sound blaster 16 or Media Vision PAS16 sound card.
2x CD-ROM drive.
170mb hard-drive
This is almost the exact PC I bought in 1993, except mine was a VLB motherboard with a CL-GD542X video card, SB Pro 2.0 and no CD-ROM (I bought a Creative SB16/2x MM upgrade kit in 1994 IIRC) and a 213MB HDD.
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-04-30, 22:01:
I usually chose a theme as a build.
All Intel or AMD or IBM.
So for IBM you should start with an IBM computer and then apply upgrades using IBM components.
I have an IBM PS/1 DX2-66 which I may repurpose for a Warp 3 build indeed, in which case this would turn into a DOS build, and to make it less cookie cutter the IBM/Cyrix CPU kind of feels appropriate.
On the other hand I wonder if the IBM PS/1 2155 motherboards can handle an IBM/Cyrix 5x86-100..
PC-Engineer wrote on 2020-04-30, 22:37:All three CPUs are very close in their performance, depending on the application.
The Am5x86 is the fastest of this three, but o […]
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All three CPUs are very close in their performance, depending on the application.
The Am5x86 is the fastest of this three, but only a simple 486 with a upgrade in cache (16kb WB)
The intel DX4 has some improvements over regular 486 like a better integer multiplier and a better compatibility for clock sensitive applications and the 16kB cahce
Both intel and AMD 486 take zero benefit of the L1 WB mode with 2nd level cache
The Cyrix 5x86 takes profit from L1 in WB and has a stronger FPU
In general with socket3 boards you have a high chance of DMA problems with L1 WB
The iDX4 arrived the market in early 1994 and was highend at its arival with nearly the same price as the Pentium
The Cyrix and AMD 5x86 arrived the market late in 1995 as a low budget competitor to the Pentium
In my experience the 20% overclocking of PCI to 40MHz causes sporadic instabilities with IDE and SCSI controller and in my case (Chaintech 486SPM) with a Diamond Monster (Voodoo1) behind a Diamond S3 968 (with applied memory remapping). For a 40MHz FSB i would recommend a VLB system.
This is the board I will be using, AFAIK it has no known stability problems with any of these chips:
I do not plan to upgrade these venerable hardware, no need really.
jheronimus wrote on 2020-04-30, 22:38:I'm playing around with an AMD 5x86@160 VLB system right now. I also have a quite nice VGA card for it (an ARK Logic ARK1000VL), […]
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I'm playing around with an AMD 5x86@160 VLB system right now. I also have a quite nice VGA card for it (an ARK Logic ARK1000VL), so it's kind of high-end (though lacking fancy storage at the moment).
For me it's the only platform where I think it's really fun to tweak the hardware on a fairly low level — e.g., messing with BIOS settings, trying various drivers/software enhancements/OS settings. So if this is what you're after, AMD is a performance option and Cyrix might be a more interesting option because it's more exotic.
But if I take your topic name at face value, there really is no such thing as a "high-end 1995 486 build". My build, for instance, is a pure 1995 machine, but really is more of a machine for someone who couldn't afford a Pentium, and thus, tried to squeeze everything out of an outdated platform. It's like calling Tualatin 1400 a "high-end 2001 Pentium 3" or AMD K6-3+ a "high-end 2000 Socket 7". Just doesn't make sense.
Like others said, a DX4 is the closest thing to a high-end 486. It existed alongside a much more expensive Socket 4 Pentium but could still beat it in most games. So technically, DX4 is still mid-range. The last high-end 486 would really be a DX2 😀
Otherwise, I think a 486 build is defined by your choice of motherboards more than anything. Do you want VLB or PCI? Which CPUs does your board support?
The ARK1000 is one of the cards I am considering for this build indeed!
Another other is the MX86200
Undecided as of yet.
Maybe my use of the word high end is inappropriate here, I merely meant to say "fast". 😀
My motherboard of choice is Biostar MB-8433UUD-A so this will be a PCI 486 build, and the motherboard is a fairly flexible and compatible one with pretty much everything out there..
jesolo wrote on 2020-04-30, 22:54:I think the main reason why the 486DX-33 was more "mainstream" back in 1993 was purely because of price - as a matter of fact, […]
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I think the main reason why the 486DX-33 was more "mainstream" back in 1993 was purely because of price - as a matter of fact, by August 1995 (when Windows 95 was released), many people still had 386 systems. So much so that Microsoft stated that the minimum requirements to run Windows 95 was a 386 CPU with 4 MB of RAM.
Speaking from personal experience, I actually bought my very first computer towards the end of 1993 - earlier that year, as I recall, some factory in Taiwan burned down and memory prices went through the roof.
At that point, I had to choose between an Intel 486DX-33 or a Cyrix 486DLC-40 (with its math co-processor). Having very little information (no internet back those days), I went for the Cyrix, but in hindsight, should have gone for the Intel 486DX-33.
My computer only had 4 MB RAM, floppy, 16-bit Tseng Labs ET4000 ISA card and a 170 MB hard drive, but no CD-ROM and no sound card (the latter I could only afford a year later).
I also agree that the DX33 was the mainstream option in 1993 , when I bought mine in October 1993 for over $2000 a DX2-66 system offering from the same OEM cost around almost one grand more than that.
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