VOGONS


Reply 60 of 82, by Dimitris1980

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Spikey wrote on 2021-11-29, 00:46:

Yeah, my quick diagnosis after listening with headphones is that you're right. They sound digital, not like actual digital sound effects, but like the PCM sampled sound effects do on the CM series (and the Sound Canvases/other GM2 and GS devices).

Like Leisure Suit Larry 5, the CM FX notes are likely sent on the drum channel. If you can send me a save, or confirm that it's the beginning of the game, I'll record it and take a look at the data.

It is on the beginning of the game. Exactly next screen on the right (dead mans pier screen)

- Macintosh LC475, Powerbook 540c, Macintosh Performa 6116CD, Power Macintosh G3 Minitower (x2), Imac G3, Powermac G4 MDD, Powermac G5, Imac Mid 2007
- Cyrix 120
- Amiga 500, Amiga 1200
- Atari 1040 STF
- Roland MT32, CM64, CM500, SC55, SC88, Yamaha MU50

Reply 61 of 82, by Dimitris1980

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Below is a sample from Beneath A Steel Sky. The dog sound effect exists on sound blaster and Roland CM64 but not on MT32.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDYym31SziM&t=35s

- Macintosh LC475, Powerbook 540c, Macintosh Performa 6116CD, Power Macintosh G3 Minitower (x2), Imac G3, Powermac G4 MDD, Powermac G5, Imac Mid 2007
- Cyrix 120
- Amiga 500, Amiga 1200
- Atari 1040 STF
- Roland MT32, CM64, CM500, SC55, SC88, Yamaha MU50

Reply 62 of 82, by AppleSauce

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Is it just me or are the cm32l pcm sound effects in ultima underworld super quiet while the music is blaringly loud?

I've tried it on munt as well as my physical unit and they both seem to do the same thing?

Reply 64 of 82, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
AppleSauce wrote on 2022-03-28, 08:51:

Is it just me or are the cm32l pcm sound effects in ultima underworld super quiet while the music is blaringly loud?

I've tried it on munt as well as my physical unit and they both seem to do the same thing?

They are a bit quiet in general (I'm not familiar with the UU example). Every CM-32L instrument is a combo of synthesis and PCM, except for the sound effects which are PCM only, so it makes sense that they would have to be quieter. Are you sure you're talking about the digital sound effects, though? The CM can make sound effects from regular patches (LA/PCM) or the special SFX (PCM only).

According to this site: http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?tit ... byss_(DOS)
"Despite supporting a number of devices for music, all sound effects are sent to the PC Speaker.".

But then another person on Reddit says "You want the CM-32L rom for more realistic footsteps in that game.". So maybe both devices are used?

Reply 65 of 82, by Dominus

User metadata
Rank DOSBox Moderator
Rank
DOSBox Moderator

The PC speaker comment is wrong AFAIR. You can setup SB, Adlib or Roland but not PC speaker

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 66 of 82, by AppleSauce

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Spikey wrote on 2022-08-02, 04:01:
They are a bit quiet in general (I'm not familiar with the UU example). Every CM-32L instrument is a combo of synthesis and PCM, […]
Show full quote
AppleSauce wrote on 2022-03-28, 08:51:

Is it just me or are the cm32l pcm sound effects in ultima underworld super quiet while the music is blaringly loud?

I've tried it on munt as well as my physical unit and they both seem to do the same thing?

They are a bit quiet in general (I'm not familiar with the UU example). Every CM-32L instrument is a combo of synthesis and PCM, except for the sound effects which are PCM only, so it makes sense that they would have to be quieter. Are you sure you're talking about the digital sound effects, though? The CM can make sound effects from regular patches (LA/PCM) or the special SFX (PCM only).

According to this site: http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?tit ... byss_(DOS)
"Despite supporting a number of devices for music, all sound effects are sent to the PC Speaker.".

But then another person on Reddit says "You want the CM-32L rom for more realistic footsteps in that game.". So maybe both devices are used?

Sounds like the door creak or water sound for me are really quiet, ultima has an option to disable the sfx from the music but no option to adjust them , it might just be whatever software in game handles the volume levels was coded badly.

I dont think the speaker is used , you can use a combo of sound blaster and cm32L but the sound blaster sfx is only used for the cutscenes I think. In game the 32L handles the music and sfx.

Reply 67 of 82, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Malik wrote on 2022-08-01, 23:08:

GODS by The Bitmap Brothers uses the LAPC-I / CM32L sound effects exclusively. The flying witches' dying sounds are the most obvious.

great to hear, I need a power supply for my CM32L and then I can test this 😀

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 68 of 82, by Dimitris1980

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Gods seems very nice with Roland CM64 but I have played only the first level. I think it may be better than Amiga version but also I have played only the first level on Amiga 1200.

- Macintosh LC475, Powerbook 540c, Macintosh Performa 6116CD, Power Macintosh G3 Minitower (x2), Imac G3, Powermac G4 MDD, Powermac G5, Imac Mid 2007
- Cyrix 120
- Amiga 500, Amiga 1200
- Atari 1040 STF
- Roland MT32, CM64, CM500, SC55, SC88, Yamaha MU50

Reply 69 of 82, by paranoicb

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have built a MT32-pi and I use the CM-32L rom. I tried with lure of the temptress in scummVM but no luck with the extra sound effects. Seems it doesn’t work. Then I tried the same with DOSbox and I have the same results again. No extra SFX . I can’t understand if this is a problem from my MT32-pi or ScummVM/DOSbox settings. Does the extra SFX are included on the CM32L rom for the MT32-pi ?

Reply 70 of 82, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
paranoicb wrote on 2022-08-30, 06:46:

I have built a MT32-pi and I use the CM-32L rom. I tried with lure of the temptress in scummVM but no luck with the extra sound effects. Seems it doesn’t work. Then I tried the same with DOSbox and I have the same results again. No extra SFX . I can’t understand if this is a problem from my MT32-pi or ScummVM/DOSbox settings. Does the extra SFX are included on the CM32L rom for the MT32-pi ?

The ROM has the extra SFX, if you're using the CM-32L ROM. But definitely get it working in software first. Maybe disable other ROMs (like MT-32), or try a different game. Larry 5 can be heard very early in the game from the boombox, for example, and there's another non-Sierra one which plays them very early.

Reply 71 of 82, by paranoicb

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Well i plugged a midi keyboard and i tested the sound presets and i can confirm the extra sounds are here in the rom. But i cant make it to work in dosbox and i think i read somewhere on the scummvm wiki that CM32L is not supported

Reply 72 of 82, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Well i plugged a midi keyboard and i tested the sound presets

Out of interest, how'd you test the SFX? Most people wouldn't be familiar with where the sound effects are in the CM-32L.

Reply 73 of 82, by paranoicb

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Spikey wrote on 2022-09-04, 15:05:

Well i plugged a midi keyboard and i tested the sound presets

Out of interest, how'd you test the SFX? Most people wouldn't be familiar with where the sound effects are in the CM-32L.

I tested it with a keyboard 🎹 plugged in. I used renoise and searched programs and switched to the drum machine preset and the sounds are after the drums.
Update: I was using a cheap chinese midi to usb and seems not working right. I plugged in an M-Audio usb midi card i have and now i can hear the sounds on the game just fine.

Reply 74 of 82, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
paranoicb wrote on 2022-09-06, 16:16:
Spikey wrote on 2022-09-04, 15:05:

Well i plugged a midi keyboard and i tested the sound presets

Out of interest, how'd you test the SFX? Most people wouldn't be familiar with where the sound effects are in the CM-32L.

I tested it with a keyboard 🎹 plugged in. I used renoise and searched programs and switched to the drum machine preset and the sounds are after the drums.
Update: I was using a cheap chinese midi to usb and seems not working right. I plugged in an M-Audio usb midi card i have and now i can hear the sounds on the game just fine.

Nice work! Yeah, most people don't realise they're in the drumset.

Glad everything seems to be working now.

Reply 75 of 82, by DOSUserDude

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
paranoicb wrote on 2022-09-04, 03:56:

Well i plugged a midi keyboard and i tested the sound presets and i can confirm the extra sounds are here in the rom. But i cant make it to work in dosbox and i think i read somewhere on the scummvm wiki that CM32L is not supported

Earlier versions of SCUMMVM (and the game engine support for Lure of the Temptress) lacked proper MT-32/CM32L support (for many years) - specifically, the person that did the original LOTT game engine/code transfer/programming was not experienced with the MT32/CM32L and had no idea there were extra SFX being used by the game specific to the CM32L, in addition to the SCUMMVM MUNT code being outdated and not properly supporting the MT32/CM32L; version 2.5.0 released last October updated both the MUNT code (to version 2.5.1) and the LOTT game engine code to provide CM32L support, finally allowing properly CM32L output from LOTT (and some other games).

Its good you got a properly wired USB MIDI cable and fixed the main issue, just make sure you have SCUMMVM version 2.5.0 or later for Lure (and other MT32/CM32L games) to work properly with it (if you continue to use SCUMMVM).

Reply 76 of 82, by jharrison

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I know one (small) example is Quest for Glory IV.

At the North side of the Mordavian village (the monastery scene), there is the gravedigger Igor carving a tombstone. His hammer strike sounds proper on a CM-32L, but on an MT-32, it's some other sound (I recall it's something like a horn or a brass instrument).

That particular sound effect is played through MIDI for whatever reason even if you're running the game with a separate PCM card.

Reply 77 of 82, by digger

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
jharrison wrote on 2022-10-12, 17:39:

I know one (small) example is Quest for Glory IV.

At the North side of the Mordavian village (the monastery scene), there is the gravedigger Igor carving a tombstone. His hammer strike sounds proper on a CM-32L, but on an MT-32, it's some other sound (I recall it's something like a horn or a brass instrument).

That particular sound effect is played through MIDI for whatever reason even if you're running the game with a separate PCM card.

Interesting. Wasn't Quest for Glory IV a game from the General MIDI era, though? Why go though the trouble of using that particular sound effect that could be experienced by only a small subset of the customer base?

I know there are "sound effect" instruments in the General MIDI set as well. I wonder what "instrument" was used on GM devices. I played the game on a Gravis Ultrasound back in the day, and I remember absolutely loving the music of the game, but I have absolutely no remembrance of how the tombstone carving sound sounded. Simply too small a detail, I guess. 😅

Reply 78 of 82, by Spikey

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
jharrison wrote on 2022-10-12, 17:39:

I know one (small) example is Quest for Glory IV.

At the North side of the Mordavian village (the monastery scene), there is the gravedigger Igor carving a tombstone. His hammer strike sounds proper on a CM-32L, but on an MT-32, it's some other sound (I recall it's something like a horn or a brass instrument).

That particular sound effect is played through MIDI for whatever reason even if you're running the game with a separate PCM card.

I'm 99.9% sure that this is not the case, at least as far as there being no CM-32L instruments in any Sierra game other than Leisure Suit Larry 5.

I have heard the tombstone documented before, maybe it's a digital PCM (but played on Sound Blaster) versus MIDI sample you're hearing?

What driver are you playing the game with when this happens?

Reply 79 of 82, by spiffythedog

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
jharrison wrote on 2022-10-12, 17:39:

I know one (small) example is Quest for Glory IV.

At the North side of the Mordavian village (the monastery scene), there is the gravedigger Igor carving a tombstone. His hammer strike sounds proper on a CM-32L, but on an MT-32, it's some other sound (I recall it's something like a horn or a brass instrument).

That particular sound effect is played through MIDI for whatever reason even if you're running the game with a separate PCM card.

Looks like you've uncovered something pretty interesting. Testing with MUNT and QFG4CD's MT-32 driver, I've found that the hammer strikes (sound resource 13, which uses the 'FireDartMS' patch when the MT-32 driver is selected) sound exactly the same regardless of the ROMs used. I've also found that the action is completely silent when GM is the selected music driver! This is because the developers only included resources for the FM and MT-32 versions of the sound. I'm guessing they forgot to include a GM equivalent or they were going to use a digital PCM sample like Spikey suggested but never implemented it (audio resource 900 is the only one I found that comes close to the required sound effect). It makes me wonder if there are similar cases of this happening with other sound effects in the game?

EDIT: More testing - looks like the floppy version doesn't contain this particular sound effect.