Thanks for your help.

I'm now able to get MIDI with just Orpheus dos driver without running UNSOUND with the settings above in the .ini file. However, I'm getting the same results with general midi audio with either ports 300 or 330...

I was confused with the ORPHEUS.INI MPU setting. I thought because of the jumper setting there was no need to enter port address that matches the physical jumper settings on the card so I wasn't aware that I had to enter a port number or what is the syntax. I thought it would be "enabled" instead of port "x" for example when jumper is 300 or 330 on the board itself. I'm glad understand that now.

As for the board, yes the audio portions are unpopulated. I have ordered from Ebay a new BIOS chip with the latest ASUS Award BIOS. I don't have a programmer or winbond chip handy. I can only hope the HP board is identical in everyway to the ASUS P5S-VM non branded version.

My next step is to build a new target machine for this setup as I mentioned earlier and see what other result I get.

I hope the new BIOS will fix things somehow
but it is still strange that both ports 300 and 330 do not work properly... maybe the problem is in IRQ handling
keep us updated when you test the new BIOS!

Ok. I have bad news. I moved the same hard drive from this machine into a newly built system I put together today and I'm getting the same problems with General MIDI.

The new system is :

ASUS P2B-L Motherboard,Intel P3 500 SL35E,512MB RAM, Award Bios
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-p2b-l

I have all options to reserve IRQ's and DMA's in this machine and so I reserved IRQ5, IRQ7, IRQ9 and DMA1.

Orpheus initializes no problem.

🙁

I have a question. Is this card supposed to be register as Sound Blaster 16 in the game menus for games? All games are unable to find SB16 with orpheus II -- I can only select Sound Blaster Pro or Soundblaster, is this normal? Does SB Pro and Soundblaster / 2.0 handle the same General MIDI as SB16 does?

The Orpheus is a SB Pro-only clone, as most clones are. It'll do 16 bit WSS though in games that support that.

The FX and the GM parts of the card are separate things, they don't impact each other.

indeed , the CS4237 is compatible with SB/SBPRO/WSS , no SB16 support
General Midi, Sound Canvas, MPU-401 options in games do not use any sb-specific code - they are their own thing

this midi issue makes no sense though
for the sake of argument let's assume that the pcmidi MPU portion of the card is somehow damaged now
but on the same time the internal cs4237 MPU portion of the chip is also damaged and both exhibit the same issue
this is a very unlikely possibility

are you sure you are not having some kind of sound driver running in your autoexec/config?
make a boot floppy disk with no autoexec/config (or just have himem.sys loaded if needed) , disconnect all external midi equipment and cables , leave only VGA and OrpheusII installed
boot the system and run orphinit , then DOOM with GM selected and the needed mpu setting for the wavetable header
if you still have the same issue then contact the person that you bought the card from in order to send it back for checking

I cannot think of anything else about this problem, you should at the very minimum be able to use without issues the CS4237 MPU in games like DOOM

seb951 wrote on 2023-06-17, 23:05:

I was confused with the ORPHEUS.INI MPU setting. I thought because of the jumper setting there was no need to enter port address that matches the physical jumper settings on the card so I wasn't aware that I had to enter a port number or what is the syntax. I thought it would be "enabled" instead of port "x" for example when jumper is 300 or 330 on the board itself. I'm glad understand that now.

Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but the way that is written, it looks like you are specifying the same resources in ORPHEUS.INI as you have set via the card's jumpers for the PCMIDI portion. If that is really the case, this is not correct, and you are creating the conflict. All currently-shipping Orpheus cards have two completely independent MPU-401-compatible MIDI interfaces; PCMIDI and the on-chip Crystal interface. The PCMIDI interface is controlled by the on-card jumpers only, and the Crystal MPU is configured exclusively via ORPHINIT, using the MPUBase and MPUIRQ settings. The two must not share resources (though the IRQ is sometimes not used). So, if the PCMIDI jumpers are set for I/O port 330H, you must not set the MPUBase to 330, but to 300 (or virtually any other valid setting). If you are setting an IRQ, it should generally also be one not used by any other device.

There are three other things to consider:

1. The Asus P2B-L can cause additional problems if Plug and Play OS is set to No.
2. If the Asus board supports ACPI and it is enabled, IRQ 2/9 may be reserved for it and therefore be unusable for MPU-401 duties.
3. If you try to enable the MPU-401 features of the InterWave via IWINIT (in IW.INI), it may cause additional problems. As this interface is not usable at all, you should not be doing that. In certain cases, this may be done for you by the Plug and Play BIOS. If you are using the package provided by keropi, this should not be a problem.

^ if this is the case then ofcourse midi playback would be bad
it is always assumed that each mpu gets it's own port - both can't use the same under any circumstances

Does it make sense to put a “Dream Blaster X2 GS MIDI Module” on this sound card or do you not need to ?

640K!enough wrote on 2023-06-19, 06:33:

Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but the way that is written, it looks like you are specifying the same resources in ORPHEUS. […]
Show full quote

seb951 wrote on 2023-06-17, 23:05:

I was confused with the ORPHEUS.INI MPU setting. I thought because of the jumper setting there was no need to enter port address that matches the physical jumper settings on the card so I wasn't aware that I had to enter a port number or what is the syntax. I thought it would be "enabled" instead of port "x" for example when jumper is 300 or 330 on the board itself. I'm glad understand that now.

Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but the way that is written, it looks like you are specifying the same resources in ORPHEUS.INI as you have set via the card's jumpers for the PCMIDI portion. If that is really the case, this is not correct, and you are creating the conflict. All currently-shipping Orpheus cards have two completely independent MPU-401-compatible MIDI interfaces; PCMIDI and the on-chip Crystal interface. The PCMIDI interface is controlled by the on-card jumpers only, and the Crystal MPU is configured exclusively via ORPHINIT, using the MPUBase and MPUIRQ settings. The two must not share resources (though the IRQ is sometimes not used). So, if the PCMIDI jumpers are set for I/O port 330H, you must not set the MPUBase to 330, but to 300 (or virtually any other valid setting). If you are setting an IRQ, it should generally also be one not used by any other device.

There are three other things to consider:

1. The Asus P2B-L can cause additional problems if Plug and Play OS is set to No.
2. If the Asus board supports ACPI and it is enabled, IRQ 2/9 may be reserved for it and therefore be unusable for MPU-401 duties.
3. If you try to enable the MPU-401 features of the InterWave via IWINIT (in IW.INI), it may cause additional problems. As this interface is not usable at all, you should not be doing that. In certain cases, this may be done for you by the Plug and Play BIOS. If you are using the package provided by keropi, this should not be a problem.

OK. 😀. Above is correct. I created the conflict. Everything is working now. I think we need more instructions on the web page / manual 😜 OR let this be a learning for myself and then sorry for taking up your time.

At this moment, I defaulted everything on the card as it was from shipping. Port 330 on the MPU Resource Control and IRQ 2 as default. Then I installed the Dreamblaster X2 to waveconnector and put jumper "J2" to waveconnector then set ORPHEUS.INI to MPUBse to "300". I had no idea that both dedicated MIDI out and wavetable header can work at same time and or the joystick connector so I was moving jumpers to the type of MIDI I was intending to test. Also, not knowing to maneuver the the .ini file to for Chrystal chip MPU portion. It's a lot I guess 😀 but not really not after I know what is going on and the logic behind it. I fear the GUS portion heheh i'm sure with the the GUS I'm really heading for turbulent weather especially with Windows. Right now, there is nothing resource-wise in the system, it's just DOS 6.22 and is booting Orpheus II and an AGP card that's it -- just like a bootdisk but from primary HDD.

Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it!! It's a wonderful card 😀 look forward to testing the GUS portion once the memory comes in the mail.

I'm totally in disbelief now, this card has finally made it to the end. After so many years, I finally have general MIDI working without locking up, latency or hanging notes on TIE FIGHTER for DOS collectors CD-ROM with Roland SC-55 Mark II or wavetable daughterboard Dreamblaster X2. The LucasArts team even noted in the readme file they couldn't figure it out and it was a "hardware issue". My other computer with SB16 just likes to hang on that game only or have hanging notes as noted in the readme file.

Here is the picture of the readme file from LucasArts. Well it's 2023 and now it's working ! 😜 well probably Orpheus I fixed this one too, but I missed that !

I am with JOY. 😀 It's a happy day 😀 thank you so much and then GUS around the corner to test! i'm so excited!

Creative must have known about this problem at some point, since they fixed it very late. It's too bad that so many cards are plagued by this bug.

glad to see the issues resolved, great catch 640k!enough!

and yes, all 3 midi-out ports can be used at the same time with any MPU combination if both PCMIDI and CSMPU are active and working without conflicting each other 😀

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-06-19, 12:22:

Does it make sense to put a “Dream Blaster X2 GS MIDI Module” on this sound card or do you not need to ?

Are you kidding or trolling or what? I don't see any sense in your questions.

This card has wavetable header. You can put wavetable to it or not to put - it's up too you. Technically it's obsolete card for obsolete BUS for obsolete software so there is no sense in all this retro-stuff except for your own amusement. It's YOU who decide whether you need it and how to use it judging on its capabilities.

He is a trollbot. Just put him on ignore.

Just got one of these cards, but haven't had time to install it yet. Are the InterWave drivers preferred for Windows 3.1x digital audio vs. the seemingly buggy Crystal ones?

a batch of LT boards is now available , page is live here: http://pcmidi.eu/orpheus2LT.html

😀

I have the Orpheus ii lite and love it. I was also going to get the Mk8330 with midi board to have another option but with the added sb16 compatibility. Am I correct in thinking that the Mk8330 has sb16 comp but my orpheus II lite does not?

I just built my second Windows 98SE/DOS box, put my Orpheus II LT in, works amazing!!! Love these cards so much.

My builds...

RetroPC 1 - Asus P3B-F with a Slotket 1.4Ghz Tualatin, Oprehus II (GUS), Audigy 2zS, Geforce 4 4600
RetroPC 2- Gigabyte GA-6VTXE-A with a 1.4Ghz Tualatin, Orpheus II LT, Vortex 2 MX300, Geforce 4 4600

I have a third, a older Gateway P2-550 as well..

Basically can setup a mini LAN party with friends now like back in the day! 😀

KuroHouou wrote on 2023-06-25, 13:29:

I just built my second Windows 98SE/DOS box, put my Orpheus II LT in, works amazing!!! Love these cards so much.
[...]

thanks for the kind words and support!!!! 😁

poorcomputerman wrote on 2023-06-25, 13:20:

[...]Am I correct in thinking that the Mk8330 has sb16 comp but my orpheus II lite does not?

yes, the CMI 8330 chip offers SB16 support but the CS4237 used in orpheus cards goes as far as SB PRO

keropi wrote on 2023-06-25, 14:23:

yes, the CMI 8330 chip offers SB16 support but the CS4237 used in orpheus cards goes as far as SB PRO

I think SB16 value is really overpriced. Were there any games with real 16-bit sound that were supporting only SB16 and none of other options like WSS?