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Reply 20 of 84, by Unregistered

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Final Fantasy VII, Half-Life and Quake II do NOT support Glide.
Final Fantasy VII has got a software and a Direct3D mode.
Half-Life is based on Quake II engine and supports Software, Direct3D and OpenGL.
Quake II has got Software mode, OpenGL, and some optimized OpenGL modes (also one for 3dfx cards).
There have been versions of OpenGL drivers for 3dfx cards that depended on Glide. I don't think that means OpenGL games should be added to the list though.

A game I'm missing from the list that does support Glide is Unreal Tournament.

Z_God

Reply 21 of 84, by Stiletto

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Unregistered wrote:

Final Fantasy VII, Half-Life and Quake II do NOT support Glide.

Not true.

Final Fantasy VII has got a software and a Direct3D mode.



Then I guess I should have specified "Final Fantasy VII Demo", eh? One of the early demos (still available online) supported Glide. I should know. I wonder if there's a way to get it to run the full version. Probably not.

Half-Life is based on Quake II engine and supports Software, Direct3D and OpenGL. Quake II has got Software mode, OpenGL, and some optimized OpenGL modes (also one for 3dfx cards).
There have been versions of OpenGL drivers for 3dfx cards that depended on Glide. I don't think that means OpenGL games should be added to the list though.



You're referring to the 3dfx MiniGL driver - a subset of the full OGL command set, optimized for Voodoo cards by converting many OpenGL calls to equivalent Glide calls, AFAIK. Used in GLQuake, Quake II, Half-Life and other games. Not a full OpenGL ICD. And since the 3dfx minigl requires Glide2x.dll and/or Glide3x.dll, yes, any games that use the miniGL should be included for testing. Yes, this would be essentially wrapping OpenGL to Glide and back to OpenGL, but it should be tested.

A game I'm missing from the list that does support Glide is Unreal Tournament.



And let's add Icewind Dale and Deus Ex... ho, hum... and Return to Castle Wolfenstein, mentioned in another thread...

Reply 22 of 84, by Snover

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It sounds to me like instead of listing all GAMES, we list the ENGINES that they use.

eg. Unreal, uh, Lithtech, BUILD, err, Quake 2, Quake 3...

it'd make the list a good bit shorter. That said, it would be even BETTER to have the list a hierarchal one. That is to say, like this:

ENGINE
&&Gamename
&&Gamename
&&Gamename

OTHER ENGINE
&&Gamename
&&Gamename
&&Gamename

SOMEONE ELSE'S ENGINE
&&Gamename
&&Gamename
&&Gamename

PROPIETARY GAME ENGINES
&&Gamename
&&Gamename
&&Gamename

Granted there would probably be more "propietary" game engines than not, but it's surprising to see how many games depend on other engines, no matter how modified they are. (Some special cases of heavy modification, such as Half-Life, may need to be included differently.) This type of list seems especially crucial since there seems to be a lot of rather heated argument amongst the ranks (*cough,ahhem, that's my job you assholes 😉*) regarding which games should and should not be added to the list.

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 23 of 84, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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Stiletto wrote:

Not true.

I don't think was there was a "Glide" option for any of these. Unless of course, you're talking about using D3D-for-Glide or something...

Then I guess I should have specified "Final Fantasy VII Demo", eh? One of the early demos (still available online) supported Glide.

I have it on CD somewhere "in the pile". So I'll find it...someday.

You're referring to the 3dfx MiniGL driver - a subset of the full OGL command set, optimized for Voodoo cards by converting many OpenGL calls to equivalent Glide calls, ... but it should be tested.

Ech...That will be messy. Perhaps a warning: "Only for testing by desperate/crazy ATi/Matrox owners".

And let's add Icewind Dale

Glide support? You sure?

Reply 24 of 84, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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Snover wrote:

It sounds to me like instead of listing all GAMES, we list the ENGINES that they use. eg. Unreal, uh, Lithtech, BUILD, err, Quake 2, Quake 3....

*gack*

Granted there would probably be more "propietary" game engines than not,...

The majority of these are indeed, proprietary.

One thing's for sure, we need to leave off "add-on" packs unless those packs actually modify the game itself or were released as "stand-alone add-ons". Listing off the add-on maps for Quake II alone would fill up the board.

Reply 25 of 84, by Unregistered

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I beleave that also most full OpenGL drivers for 3dfx cards are dependent on Glide. I do not really think it is necessary to test those with OpenGlide.

If there needs to be a list of which games to test with OpenGlide, I beleave it needs to be sorted by priority. First the games that only run when Glide is availlable. Second, games with Glide mode and Direct3D mode. Third games with only Glide and software mode. Then games with Glide, Software and Direct3D. And maybe at the end games that also support OpenGL directly and Glide.

I beleave that games with only Direct3D and Glide have a pretty high priority, because not all OS'ses that support Glide support Direct3D.

Z_God

Reply 26 of 84, by Snover

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I disagree. Anything that doesn't use another 3D hardware API (eg. programs that are "Glide or Software Mode") need to be addressed BEFORE games that are "Glide or Direct3D." Almost anything software mode will look pukey, whereas D3D should, at least, be high(er)-res. In any case, I'm pretty sure D3D supports just as many, if not more, cards than does OGL. Don't quote me on that, though. That said, ARE there any cards that support OGL but don't support D3D? (Especially seeing as how OpenGLide uses lots of OpenGL 1.2/1.3 extension calls.)

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 27 of 84, by Unregistered

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Snover wrote:

That said, ARE there any cards that support OGL but don't support D3D? (Especially seeing as how OpenGLide uses lots of OpenGL 1.2/1.3 extension calls.)

Do Macintosh video cards count? Most support only OpenGL and QuickDraw 3D RAVE. Heh.

Otherwise, dunno.

As to Icewind Dale, this page says it does. But take it with a grain of salt - looks like this would need to be looked into.
members.tripod.com/VincentV/icewind.htm

Reply 29 of 84, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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Snover wrote:

Why would a 3D API help for any game using the Baldur's Gate engine?

As I understand it, "Diablo II" used 3D acceleration to enhance certain special effects. Presumably, "spells". I'm guessing it would be the same for Icewind Dale. It's just that, by that time, most programmers were moving to D3D or OpenGL for 3D.

Reply 30 of 84, by Hentzau

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How about "Fighter Squadron: Screamin' Demons over Europe" to add to the list. Uses the OpenPlane engine. Still has a big community and probably will for a long time since IL2 isn't very open. www.fightersquadron.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi Engine by Parsoft www.openplane.org/ Think there is an engine demo still available. New sim by www.wingswithwires.com/ coming out (hopefully) using a modified version of the engine. Ripmax RC Simultator also used a modified version of the engine I believe. Still looks best in Glide to me. 😉

Last edited by Hentzau on 2002-10-19, 04:34. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 32 of 84, by Hentzau

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Snover wrote:

The site for that game doesn't have any PR stuff, so I don't know what the engine looks or runs like, but hopefully it doesn't look anything like the A-10 engine, heh...

Found a site with the demo (I think) and changed the link above. Heres a picture hopefully if it uploads.

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Reply 34 of 84, by Unregistered

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>Do Macintosh video cards count? Most support only OpenGL and QuickDraw 3D RAVE. Heh.

Of course. VirtualPC and other pc emulators support hardware acceleration for these cards with OpenGL, probably not Direct3D. So if a game only has Glide and Direct3D modes, with OpenGlide you could use the Glide mode.
Same here with Linux, only OpenGL no Direct3D.

Games running in software mode are atleast always playable.

Z_God

Reply 35 of 84, by Unregistered

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Unregistered wrote:

>Of course. VirtualPC and other pc emulators support hardware acceleration for these cards with OpenGL, probably not Direct3D. So if a game only has Glide and Direct3D modes, with OpenGlide you could use the Glide mode.
Same here with Linux, only OpenGL no Direct3D.

If you use WineX from TransGaming Technologies to run Windows software under Linux, all Direct3D calls are wrapped to OpenGL anyhow. (Great work on their part). And other Direct3D-OpenGL wrappers exist. I'm surprised these Macintosh emulators don't do that yet.

For that matter, there was an early version of Virtual PC for Macintosh that sent any Glide calls on the emulated PC side straight to the Voodoo2 card on the Macintosh side. They took that feature out in a later release. So, with their OpenGL support, they've sorta-added it back? Or isn't OpenGL supported under the Macintosh version? If it indeed is, we'll have to get Macintosh owners who also own Virtual PC to test OpenGlide/GliDOS. Hehe.

Reply 36 of 84, by Snover

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Okay. Pleeease start moving the list in this thread here. It'll make things much easier for everyone. I added, uh, Red Baron 3D, since it was the only one I could think of. 😜
If an extra column needs to be added for GliDOS, it should be a minimal amount of work, but since GliDOS runs through OpenGLide (or the other way around), it should be fine with just OpenGLide...right?

Please also read the news. (One step past the splash screen. I want everyone to get cookied until 2012. 😀)

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 37 of 84, by Glidos

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I think a column saying "Requires Glidos" would be helpful, otherwise people will download OpenGLide and fiddle around for a while before realising. I'm thinking we still mark Glidos games as working with OpenGLide, but just tick the "Requires Glidos" box aswell if it's a DOS program.

I didn't know about Half-life having a glide mode. Has anyone tried it?

I know Unreal (original) used to work with the version of OpenGLide I started from, so if it doesn't work anymore then that's something I've broken along the way.

Sorry, I haven't been reading this forum lately. I thought I was set up to get emails for each new thread, but I hadn't done it right, so I've missed a load.

Reply 38 of 84, by Snover

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Half-Life doesn't actually have native Glide support -- rather, it has "miniGL" -- an OpenGL wrapper designed for 3dfx cards.

No, Unreal doesn't work. However, that may be linked to the problems I was having with D3D mode before anyway, in which case, it's not OpenGLide.

And, "oops". 😀

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 39 of 84, by Glidos

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Snover wrote:

Half-Life doesn't actually have native Glide support -- rather, it has "miniGL" -- an OpenGL wrapper designed for 3dfx cards.

miniGL, which is presumably the inverse of OpenGLide.


No, Unreal doesn't work. However, that may be linked to the problems I was having with D3D mode before anyway, in which case, it's not OpenGLide.


I've definitely had Unreal working with an old OpenGLide on one of my old computers. I shall try it out.