Regarding the whole downloads going down thing, that was only for SEGMENTED downloads. If you go to the 98 DDK site, you'll see that all downloads are still intact, EXCEPT that
Segment downloads are no longer available
. See? No problem. 😁 Not that you'd need segmented downloads ANYWAY... I mean, geeze. Between broadband and the 500 download managers out there...
Yes, it’s my fault.
wrote:Ok, the NO side seems to be leading by one vote.
Not to worry though for the YES side; someone (Chris Chua) has kindly offered his help. Chris has already written and compiled the VxD, so you should hear some news soon (ok, not *too* soon, but soon).V.
Does this mean we'll be able to emulate sutff like Adlib sound for DOS games in Windows 98? For real?? :-DDDDD
By the way, I am not being e-mailed anymore when this thread is replied to, despite the fact that I requested it... a bug in the msg board software, perhaps?
With regards to Snover's comment, I think you're wrong, unfortunately. MS still haven't apparently taken the WIn98 DDK download down, but they plan to. This is a quote from their main DDK page:
Other Driver Development Kits
The Windows 98 DDK, including Windows 98 and Windows 98 Second Edition debug binaries and symbols, and the Windows NT 4.0 DDK are also available for download until September 30, 2002.
That's not just segmented downloads which are offline, it's the whole lot. I've downloaded the stuff, and will probably mirror it if MS take it down, if it's needed.
== Jez ==
wrote:By the way, I am not being e-mailed anymore when this thread is replied to, despite the fact that I requested it... a bug in the msg board software, perhaps?
It could be a lot of things -- SendMail, PHP, vBulletin, your ISP...
I don't really have an external address to test-send stuff to, so if anyone would be willing for me to shoot a bunch of test messages through vBulletin, PHP, and SendMail to them, I'd be much obliged. (Jez, you'd probably be the best since you're having the problem. Speaking of which, had anyone else had this happen? I know the server's had some downtime recently, but that should only delay the stuff, not prevent it entirely.)
Yes, it’s my fault.
Ah yes, it does seem just to have slowed it down. I have in fact now received the notification, but it's a day late.
== Jez ==
Hrm. So... when will the Win9x version be available?
== Jez ==
About 2yrs after MS ends 9x support. 😉
muahahahahah!
May I ask what point there is in releasing a 9x version of VDMSound?
9x (except maybe WinME users) users have DOS on tap and by my reckoning, shouldn't really need a program like VDMSound.
About the only reason is for users who do not have the knowledge to setup Dos drivers (when needed since 9x does a fairly good job anyways in Windows)....
That's about it.
If they can't setup drivers in DOS what chance have they got in using something like VDMSound? My experience with both DOS emulation drivers and VDMSound says that both generally require the same steps (editing config files and running one or two programs to enable the emulation) so if they can't do one, then they probably couldn't handle the other.
What's wrong with Win9x users not wanting to boot into DOS to run their games? There's many cases where having the DOS drivers load, then booting into Windows 98 and playing the game doesn't work or gives you no sound.
Besides, it's always great to port something to another OS in my book. I'm looking forward to seeing Chris Chua's stuff (What's the status?).
"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen
Stiletto
wrote:If they can't setup drivers in DOS what chance have they got in using something like VDMSound?
There is another factor. Many soundcards (or motherboard audio chipsets) offer pitiful DOS audio support. Many don't have FM synthesis anymore (meaning no SoundBlaster/Adlib music).
The only real issue about making a Win9x version is the "Herculean" effort that's needed from the programmer to create the critical portion needed to make it work.
I see that, I never really had a problem with the DOS drivers that came with my SBLive (except the ones that came with the LiveWare 3 package. I never did figure out what the problem actually was, I just used to get around it by installing LW2, backing up the DOS driver folder, installin LW3 and then restoring the folder) but the ones for Windows that come with my folks AC '97 audio chip are positively shocking.
Still, driver support for 9x in general is going to start getting more and more sparse as time goes on, particularly in the light of Microsofts Lifecycle guidelines, so why not just take the oppurtunity to upgrade now (even if it is only to Win2k :p) and use the NT version of VDMSound?
I realise thats hardly an ideal situation for some (particularly those with a burning desire to run BUILD engine games in particular) but things like DOSBox (and VDMSound) are only going to get better as a result so the future isn't really all that bleak.
wrote:The ones for Windows that come with my folks AC '97 audio chip are positively shocking.
Incidentally, an online acquaintance of mine has done some work in improving DOS AC '97 audio drivers. See here:
http://vsynchmame.mameworld.net/
So far, he's done drivers for soundcards/chips that use:
RealTek ALS4000, Cirrus Logic CS4624, Cirrus Logic CS4614, Cirrus Logic CS4280, Yamaha YMF724, Yamaha YMF744, Yamaha YMF754, Trident 4DWave-NX, and Ectiva EV1935 (OPTi OPTi935 MACH ONE)
It looks like some of his work will be taken into DOS MAME at some point (from my discussions with the DOS MAME port maintainer).
I even thought Vlad might find it interesting to talk to Saka, but I'm not sure that he's taken me up on it. 😀
I realise thats hardly an ideal situation for some (particularly those with a burning desire to run BUILD engine games in particular) but things like DOSBox (and VDMSound) are only going to get better as a result so the future isn't really all that bleak.
Just thought I'd add that this is an odd counterpoint to your "XP's sound emulation r0x0rz" thread, but I don't feel like getting into it.
Anyone who said DOS is dead hasn't seen FreeDOS yet. 😀
"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen
Stiletto
wrote:Just thought I'd add that this is an odd counterpoint to your "XP's sound emulation r0x0rz" thread, but I don't feel like getting into it.
Obviously you weren't paying attention. I never said that exactly (but I understand how someone might see it that way). What I said was that, when it worked, XPs sound emulation gave results every bit as good as VDMSound. I believe I also mentioned that Shadow Warrior (a BUILD engine game) has been giving me grief for quite some time. And lastly, I think I mentioned that XP lacked AdLib emulation (and all in the one post to boot).
edit: Let me explain that again, what I meant was that, given the lack of a perceivable difference between VDMSound and XPs internal emulation (I'm open to any suggestion on just why this might be the case) the extra inconvenience of having to run programs with VDMS hardly makes it worth it. Snovers suggestion was interesting but I'd rather not have any non-game programs (not that I have many) run with VDMS automatically.
wrote:Still, driver support for 9x in general is going to start getting more and more sparse as time goes on,…
Very true. I still want to keep “true” DOS support available until we have a full-fledged “Pentium PC emulator. There are still far too many titles out there that won’t run or run like a pig under NT. I’m keeping my dual-boot until then.
…particularly in the light of Microsoft’s Lifecycle guidelines, so why not just take the opportunity to upgrade now …
Agh! He’s a mole! He’s working for the man! He’s a worker-drone for Microsoft!
*Heh*. Kidding. That’s the mandatory “Microsoft Paranoia” response, it’s required by law nowadays.
…I realise thats hardly an ideal situation for some
Actually it’s quite reasonable. If people would just use a partition manager to make space for NT on their drives or get a second drive, 2000/XP will actually configure a dual-boot for you. You get the best of both worlds that way.
Last time I talked to Chris (one week ago) VDMSound was working relatively well on Win98 with full SB and AdLib support. Only problem was that for some reason DirectSound won't work, WaveOut would run into problems every now and then, and the games would sometimes lock up. All three very likely related to crappy Win98 sound drivers, but that's why I'm waiting for more details from Chris. But yes, AdLib and SB work (as Chris said two weeks ago):
Actually, now it hardly freezes at all! In fact, as far as I've seen AdLib works. (I could even say I am the first person to hear emulated AdLib music from a DOS game on a win9x machine with no OPLx chip!) I have changed DSoundDevice to WaveDevice and that allowed the init to complete. However, the sound is so broken (and the dos box loses responsiveness every now and then since it is blocked) it is much worse than on the same computer in win2000 (even at 8000hz). But you can hear it (and my FM midi player somehow plays things perfectly with no skips) well. MPU401 out now works and as far as I know Doom works perfectly with it (not sure about MPU IN).
V.
Ahem, read again.
"... first person to hear emulated AdLib music ..."
By emulated he meant software emulated, BTW, not EMU8000 (hardware) emulated.
V.
My SBLive has an EMU 10K1 (not quite sure if it means 10100 or 10001) 😉
The AWE64 had an EMU8000 IIRC.
Seriously though, at the end of the day, whats the difference? The OPL chip gets emulated either way making his claim debatable either way.
Some cards don't have the chip. Creative has AdLib emulation in "some" of its drivers, but this is really supposed to be a long-term thing for people that don't want to upgrade from their beloved Windows 4 systems.
Yes, it’s my fault.
