VOGONS


My Very Long Bus Adventure.

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Reply 80 of 121, by PC-Engineer

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The SV2GX4 doesn‘t support L1WB correct with POD. That means in this case that applications with DMA (Floppy, SCSI, Sound) cause memory incoherencies and errors. With L1WT there are no problems with DMA. With revision 1.8 and earlier the L1WB mode for POD is hard wired and you cannot switch to L1WT like with rev. 2.0 and 2.1.

1994/1995 - Socket3 - ASUS SV2GX4 / POD 100MHz / 64MB / SCSI - Windows 95

Reply 81 of 121, by pshipkov

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@Chadti99
So, ran couple of DOS interactive graphics tests for the two ARK1000VL cards.
No difference in Quake1. Tiny difference in Doom - 1222 vs 1223 realticks. Tiny difference in Wolf3D - 0.1 fps.
Basically a rounding error.

If you setup jumpers and BIOS as shown below, you should be able to hit 25.8 FPS in vanilla Phil's Quake1 with the POD100, without any "cheats".
Verified it locally with the 2TheMax ARK1000 card.

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While this delivers best graphics perf - no audio for you, as PC-Engineer mentioned in the previous post.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 82 of 121, by Chadti99

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PC-Engineer wrote on 2021-10-14, 04:53:

The SV2GX4 doesn‘t support L1WB correct with POD. That means in this case that applications with DMA (Floppy, SCSI, Sound) cause memory incoherencies and errors. With L1WT there are no problems with DMA. With revision 1.8 and earlier the L1WB mode for POD is hard wired and you cannot switch to L1WT like with rev. 2.0 and 2.1.

Got it, for thoroughness, I’ve got the 2.1 board and setting L1 to WT, in the bios, prevents the system hang but produces static during the Duke3D sound test. Only disabling L1 cache, with the POD, seems to work in my case. No issues with the 5x86.

Also no audio issues with Quake or Daggerfall with the POD in WB, kind of interesting.

I’ll try again with WT set via jumpers.

*Update - selecting WT on jumper 21, position 2-3, resolves my sound issues in Duke, thanks for the heads up! I could see myself adding an external toggle for this when I case it.

Last edited by Chadti99 on 2021-10-14, 11:28. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 83 of 121, by Chadti99

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pshipkov wrote on 2021-10-14, 06:05:

@Chadti99
If you setup jumpers and BIOS as shown below, you should be able to hit 25.8 FPS in vanilla Phil's Quake1 with the POD100, without any "cheats".

Thanks for checking this @pshipkov! I’m actually able to hit 27.1 without any cheats on my POD100 at the moment. I’ll check what’s different between your jumpers and mine.

I’m most interested in hitting the 18.8 score with the 5x86, we’re you able to replicate that?

Reply 84 of 121, by pshipkov

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I can verify again the 18.8 score, but not far ago i checked it because of something else - it held true.

So, how you are getting 27.1 in Quake 1 with POD100 ?
What is your formula ?

retro bits and bytes

Reply 85 of 121, by Chadti99

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pshipkov wrote on 2021-10-14, 16:18:

I can verify again the 18.8 score, but not far ago i checked it because of something else - it held true.

So, how you are getting 27.1 in Quake 1 with POD100 ?
What is your formula ?

My jumpers are set a bit different for POD 100 L1 WB. I used all blue jumpers for contrast, except the last one on JP29 which is jumping 1-2, ran out of blue. My Bios settings are same as yours, make sure both L1 and L2 are set to WB.

I’ve also got 0ws and no delay jumpers set, as shown below.

Let me know!

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Reply 86 of 121, by jakethompson1

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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-10-11, 20:18:

Got it! For some reason I had jp5 and jp6 set incorrectly, that and changing both L1 and L2 back to WB in the bios. thank you!

Seeing some better numbers now for L1 cache, slightly slower in L2 and main memory speeds.

Any idea which specific BIOS/jumper settings made the difference between 59.95 CPU score in speedsys (which I also now get with the 4DMS HL3G VI) and 61.53?
Are you sure that L1 WB is fully working? Can you format a floppy from DOS mode with no errors?
I posted about the tribulations of this including missing connections on the board - Re: EFA 4DMS HL3G VI - INV/HITM# jumpers for WB CPU not working While I was determining what was not properly connected I also ran into the POST freezing with the cursor stopping in the exact same location as you did.
I'm using a Trio64V+ with this board, by the way.

Reply 88 of 121, by Chadti99

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jakethompson1 wrote on 2021-10-15, 02:10:
Any idea which specific BIOS/jumper settings made the difference between 59.95 CPU score in speedsys (which I also now get with […]
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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-10-11, 20:18:

Got it! For some reason I had jp5 and jp6 set incorrectly, that and changing both L1 and L2 back to WB in the bios. thank you!

Seeing some better numbers now for L1 cache, slightly slower in L2 and main memory speeds.

Any idea which specific BIOS/jumper settings made the difference between 59.95 CPU score in speedsys (which I also now get with the 4DMS HL3G VI) and 61.53?
Are you sure that L1 WB is fully working? Can you format a floppy from DOS mode with no errors?
I posted about the tribulations of this including missing connections on the board - Re: EFA 4DMS HL3G VI - INV/HITM# jumpers for WB CPU not working While I was determining what was not properly connected I also ran into the POST freezing with the cursor stopping in the exact same location as you did.
I'm using a Trio64V+ with this board, by the way.

I’m not sure what made the difference other than the jumper settings mentioned for JP5 and JP6 but I’ll go back and test, I’ll try formatting a floppy as well. I need to pull my GoTek from another build or order a 2nd one.

I hear the Trio64V+ VLB is quite the rare card! How’d you come across it, got any pics? How does she perform compared to the vanilla Trio64?

I’ve got a Spea Trio64 on the way.

Reply 89 of 121, by pshipkov

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Trio64+ is the same as Trio64 but with added hardware mpeg1 video decoder.
If you are not into watching first gen pixelated mpegs - nothing to see there.
Last year somebody was selling on eBay several of these for stupid price.

I tried briefly tonight to record a video showing 18.8 fps in quake1 on 5x86 cpu, but the rig kept producing 18.4 instead. Also, all tests shown lower scores than what is listed in the fat chart you linked above. I am probably missing some detail. Will try more carefully tomorrow.

With pod100 and L1 cache in WB mode the system gets quite unstable here. Can you comment on overall stability you get ?
Also, is that with 1m L2 cache ?

retro bits and bytes

Reply 90 of 121, by Chadti99

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pshipkov wrote on 2021-10-15, 08:10:
Trio64+ is the same as Trio64 but with added hardware mpeg1 video decoder. If you are not into watching first gen pixelated mpeg […]
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Trio64+ is the same as Trio64 but with added hardware mpeg1 video decoder.
If you are not into watching first gen pixelated mpegs - nothing to see there.
Last year somebody was selling on eBay several of these for stupid price.

I tried briefly tonight to record a video showing 18.8 fps in quake1 on 5x86 cpu, but the rig kept producing 18.4 instead. Also, all tests shown lower scores than what is listed in the fat chart you linked above. I am probably missing some detail. Will try more carefully tomorrow.

With pod100 and L1 cache in WB mode the system gets quite unstable here. Can you comment on overall stability you get ?
Also, is that with 1m L2 cache ?

18.4 is still better than I’m getting, keep trying! Or let me know the jumper combo that produced those results to see if I can match it.

I’ve not done any stability tests with the POD100 in this board, other than a bit of dos gaming, anything specific I should try?

Yes correct, 1MB 15ns cache.

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Last edited by Chadti99 on 2021-10-15, 11:34. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 91 of 121, by Chadti99

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Is it possible to run the 5x86 at 150Mhz 3x50 on this board? I’d like to see how my components fair at 50Mhz bus speed before attempting 4x50.

I have a 5x86 that has posted at 200MHz 4x50 on this board so I’ve got some interest in trying a peltier at lower voltages.

Reply 92 of 121, by Chadti99

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So the Second Reality demo crashes quite often on the dancing dot section with L1 jumpers configured for WT or WB with POD installed. I think I remember reading some issues with this demo and the ARK? Or is it possibly something else? I’ve not tried it with the 5x86 yet.

Update: crashes on the same spot with the Trio32

Update 2: same crash on 5x86 WT w Trio32 wtf

Was hoping to use this for stability testing 🤣.

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Reply 93 of 121, by PC-Engineer

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Its a known bug. The path of your directory is too long. Try to move the demo near your root directory and/or shorten your PATH line in your autoexec.bat.

1994/1995 - Socket3 - ASUS SV2GX4 / POD 100MHz / 64MB / SCSI - Windows 95

Reply 94 of 121, by Chadti99

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PC-Engineer wrote on 2021-10-15, 13:37:

Its a known bug. The path of your directory is too long. Try to move the demo near your root directory and/or shorten your PATH line in your autoexec.bat.

Thank you good sir, two loops in on POD100 WB/WB!

Reply 97 of 121, by matze79

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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-10-15, 07:53:

I hear the Trio64V+ VLB is quite the rare card! How’d you come across it, got any pics? How does she perform compared to the vanilla Trio64?

I only know Trio64 Cards.
The only Trio64V+ VLB Card i own is a NEW Card made last Year 😀

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Reply 98 of 121, by jakethompson1

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Chadti99 wrote on 2021-10-15, 07:53:

I hear the Trio64V+ VLB is quite the rare card! How’d you come across it, got any pics? How does she perform compared to the vanilla Trio64?

It's an STB PowerGraph 64V. I don't have a plain Trio64 to compare it to, so not sure.

Reply 99 of 121, by Gmlb256

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The main difference between vanilla Trio64 and Trio64V+ are that the latter has some hardware video acceleration. The 2D performance outside of video playback should be exactly the same, but the memory clock configuration varies between manufacturers.