VOGONS


First post, by Jackhead

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I started another build. Parts all ordered waiting to get my hands on.
So i want to build a perfect system around the Voodoo 5500 for Win98SE Gaming.
Goal is able to play all the holy 3dfx Games like Deus Ex in 3dfx Glide with 1600x1200 Resolution.
Im still not sure this will be possible at all, or better sayed on what fps..

Anyway after doing some research i choose the follow components. System will be run only Win98SE, so i dont need HT.
Feel free if you think i can add or change something.

Mainboard: Asus P4S533-E (AGP 3,3V compatible)
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 SL6PG 3,06 GHz, 533, socket 478( cooled with Scythe Mugen 2 Rev B PCGH Edition)
GPU: 3dfx Voodoo 5500 AGP 64MB 3,3V
RAM: Corsair 2x 256MB XMS CL2 ( CMX256A-3200C2 DDR400)
OS: Windows 98SE
SATA: Samsung SSD 120GB on Promise FastTrak S150 SX4 PCI (256MB)
Screen: Asus 24" L PA248QV 1920x1200 IPS 75Hz
Audio: SB Audigy 2 ZS Gold

Pictures follow soon i start with

Last edited by Jackhead on 2021-07-21, 16:49. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 2 of 21, by The Serpent Rider

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Wth SIS chipset, any common DDR400 memory from reliable brand will do, since it will work just fine at DDR333 speed on CL2 timings.

SB Audigy 2 ZS Gold

Might as well install Aureal Vortex 2 for A3D 2.0 support in Win9x environment.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 5 of 21, by greasemonkey90s

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Sis 645/dx unofficially supports ddr400. With the same board i managed 192/384 i was overclocking a pentium-b/533 2.8 and 3.06. The secret sauce to a sis645/dx is to run a high multi p4-a/400fsb and try to stay before 133fsb/533. Because for some reason when you use 533 fsb that memory divider it uses tends to take a hit somewhat in bandwidth i noticed. Like it loosens up the timing/sub timings. These were my findings like with a p4-533 i managed mid 2800mb/s scores in mem. I still think the key is pentium 4-a.

Reply 6 of 21, by Jackhead

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thats one point i choose this corsair RAM. i read a benchmark from tomshardware where exact this ram was one of few able to run ddr400 with cl2 . It was also the fastest ram on benchs. I will see when the parts arrive.

Reply 7 of 21, by chinny22

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Real nice build
The Vortex 2 will give you A3d 2.0 and but only gives you EAX 1.0 (or 2.0 if you use driver version 2.048)
For EAX 3.0 and above you'll need a Creative card but this will only give you A3D 1.0 your 2 ZS is the best choice on this side of things.
Neither card is that great and emulating the others technology.

Ends up been a case of pick your poison.
Not my list but this shows each games support
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SyOw7D0H2 … kI-gVTpyhc/edit

Reply 8 of 21, by Jackhead

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chinny22 wrote on 2021-07-22, 09:36:
Real nice build The Vortex 2 will give you A3d 2.0 and but only gives you EAX 1.0 (or 2.0 if you use driver version 2.048) For E […]
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Real nice build
The Vortex 2 will give you A3d 2.0 and but only gives you EAX 1.0 (or 2.0 if you use driver version 2.048)
For EAX 3.0 and above you'll need a Creative card but this will only give you A3D 1.0 your 2 ZS is the best choice on this side of things.
Neither card is that great and emulating the others technology.

Ends up been a case of pick your poison.
Not my list but this shows each games support
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SyOw7D0H2 … kI-gVTpyhc/edit

Thanks for the Info. Is it no possible to use the mx300 and the 2ZS in one system?

Today i got the Asus TFT. First tests with My Dos rig:

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70Hz with IPS on Dos

Reply 9 of 21, by darry

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Jackhead wrote on 2021-07-22, 11:41:
Today i got the Asus TFT. First tests with My Dos maschine: […]
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Today i got the Asus TFT. First tests with My Dos maschine:

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70Hz with IPS on Dos

Sorry if this sounds like nitpicking, but the points below are worth knowing about, IMHO. However, they may not bother you, in part or at all.

a)
70Hz input support, at least over VGA, is a given for backwards compatibility reasons, however not all monitor actually display 70Hz (frameskip) and not necessarily on all inputs (VGA vs HDMI). AFAIU, your monitor is capable of up to 75Hz ( both input and display), at least over HDMI .

b)
That monitor does not have a 4:3 mode that works for 640x400 (320x200 line doubled by VGA card), so most VGA DOS games will be stretched horizontally.

c)
Are you bothered by the fact this monitor, like practically all TFTs, samples 640x400 (320x200 line doubled by VGA card) ? An example of the effect of this can be seen in the uneven with of the lettering on Doom's HUD (bottom right).

If point a) is an issue (might not be, might not bother you if it is), an OSSC can address it.
Point c) can also be fixed by an OSSC .

Point b) is not fixable by an OSSC. An Extron RGB DVI 300 (or its HDMI version) will fix b) and c) but will force 60Hz, add a little latency and not be as sharp as an OSSC

See Re: Purchasing a 4:3 LCD for DOS/DOSBOX/MISTER/OSSC games? for more info on that monitor

Reply 10 of 21, by Jackhead

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Good points. Yes i will try it with an ossc. I tryed serval 4:3 TFTs but i dont like old used Panels any more. My Dell ultrasharp 2007FP dies after 2 month, ok unlucky. Than i bought new old stock HP LP2065 4:3. The panel was damaged after delivery, more unlucky.. Anyway the Panel is more for the win98se build here focus on 1600x1200. I can live with the borders than.

Last edited by Jackhead on 2021-07-22, 20:45. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 11 of 21, by Jackhead

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Further testing. I got 4:3 working with the Asus

ossc+framemeister combi

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Used hdmi source from the ossc to the framemeister , output mode DVI. Than i choose aspect ratio 4:3 on the framemeister. After that i can activate 4:3 on the Asus. But i see the 60Hz Problem darry talking about.

Reply 12 of 21, by darry

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Jackhead wrote on 2021-07-22, 20:42:
Further testing. I got 4:3 working with the Asus […]
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Further testing. I got 4:3 working with the Asus

ossc+framemeister combi

631ECD73-4EFD-49AB-B0F6-2240C6DF7F73.jpeg

Used hdmi source from the ossc to the framemeister , output mode DVI. Than i choose aspect ratio 4:3 on the framemeister. After that i can activate 4:3 on the Asus.

Cool!
I did not realize you that you have a Framemeister (well regarded but expensive piece of kit). I am not very familiar with it. Does it preserve 70Hz or does it convert to 60Hz ? Also, AFAICR, the Framemeister only outputs in YCbCr at 4:2:2 , so I wonder if there might be any noticeable image degradation due to the RGB--> YCbCr conversion and chroma subsampling .

EDIT: I see you answered my question about 70Hz. Sorry, I missed that initially . I have gone through about 5 or 6 scaler/digitizers and found only one (and likely its rebranded clones) that preserves 70Hz, but it only does so when outputting 1024x768 and only accepts 70Hz when receiving 720x400@70Hz . That unit is the Cypress CP-254 DVI to DVI scaler . It is not without its shortcomings, however . See Re: What are the best Vga to hdmi scalers or peripherals for MS-DOS games ? .

With any currently available monitor with or without any available (including discontinued ones) scaler/digitizer that I could find, the only way to preserve both 4:3 AND 70Hz in DOS games is to have a monitor with an explicit 4:3 mode . If there is any other way, I would love to hear about it .

Reply 13 of 21, by Jackhead

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Thats the point i got only 60HZ. Im not sure this is because the framemeister or hdmi. I also wonder how an xrgb3 perform because its more for PC Signals. It offers also 640x400 but i cant find any information about 70Hz..
About your picture quality question i have to test it, but first i want the best signal.

Reply 14 of 21, by darry

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Jackhead wrote on 2021-07-23, 05:50:

Thats the point i got only 60HZ. Im not sure this is because the framemeister or hdmi. I also wonder how an xrgb3 perform because its more for PC Signals. It offers also 640x400 but i cant find any information about 70Hz..
About your picture quality question i have to test it, but first i want the best signal.

I did some more reading and, according to this http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=XRGB … 86.92_Sync_Mode , frame rate passthrough at 70Hz might work with Sync Mode set to off :

Sync Set → Sync Mode
This setting affects the output frame rate of the unit. When set to OFF, the Framemeister's output frame rate is converted to a standard NTSC output rate, regardless of the input frame rate. When set to AUTO the output frame rate more closely matches the input frame rate, even if this deviates from the official HDMI timings. On other video processors, this is called a framerate lock or output frame lock.

Ideally, it is best to leave this setting on AUTO. When input and output refresh rates are mismatched, picture stutter or judder can occur. However, many old games systems (particularly PAL systems that have been modded for 60hz output) have refresh rates that are too out of spec for some TV's to cope with. In this case you may need to set sync mode to OFF and just put up with the picture judder. For more information, see this page.

There's is currently a bug which doesn't always fully disable the sync lock even when this setting is set to OFF. This can cause problems with capture cards like the Blackmagic range.

Reply 15 of 21, by Jackhead

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Got the MB and the Sound boards.
System runs fine with a voodoo 5500, P4 3,06 GHz and the Ram CL2 @400MHz. Two Soundcards installed the mx300 and the Audigy 2 ZS 👍🏻
The Promise controller dont work very well so i skiped it for a UDMA IDE/Sata adapter.

The two soundboards was a bit tricky under win98SE. At the end i had to use PCI Port 3+4 with auto settings. Disable the DOS Driver, Serial/Parallel and Audio Ports.
Now Win98SE boots with both cards active and i can choose on audio settings what output i like.

@darry: I also got the XRGB3 and tested the VGA I/O and with syncmode locked it output any resolution with 70Hz and above.
But i need a good VGA->DVI converter to test the digital I/O

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Reply 16 of 21, by mastergamma12

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That's quiet a large cpu cooler. 😜

4tfSL4c.png

The Tuala-Bus (My 9x/Dos Rig) (Pentium III-S 1.4ghz, AWE64G+Audigy 2 ZS, Voodoo5 5500, Chieftec Dragon Rambus)

The Final Lan Party (My Windows Xp/7 rig) (Core i7 980x, GTX 480,DFI Lanparty UT X58-T3eH8,)

Reply 17 of 21, by Jackhead

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Its a nice one the p4 is idle 36° C and on load around 55°C.

I also thinking about adding another soundboard. The Yamaha WaveForce 192 XG. Its because the board gives GM and XG Midi support.
I know that are not many win Midi games but like FF7 or Lands of Lore 2..
So far im very happy with the build. Any glide game runs perfect at 1600x1200. Only 4xAA is bit to much for the voodoo on that resolution.
I also testet my IDE->Sata adapter on the IDE bus with a ssd and i got R/W around 110MB/sec.

Reply 18 of 21, by chinny22

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When I was researching my S478 build 5? years ago the Mugen 2 was either had the best or one of the best performance statists from anything that had supported the socket.

I've got both the Audigy 2 ZS and onboard Yamaha on my P3 and admit the Yamaha is much nicer but the Audigy is fine so not sure I'd bother with the extra hassle if the soundcard wasn't on board already.
No harm in trying it out though right?

Reply 19 of 21, by Jackhead

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I was wondering if there is another PCI board with midi support out there? I mean that GM/XG midi on board.
There is also a clone of the yamaha ?
I found a nice nos one with the ff7 demo disc! The demo has 3dfx support when i remember right.
FF7 in xg midi sounds great. I also played it with a Yamaha MU2000EX.

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