VOGONS


The MIDI General

Topic actions

Reply 40 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
jwt27 wrote:

You have ALL that gear just for "noodling around"? 🤣

I have a certain, ehm, "enthusiasm" for sound and music technology... 🤣

...since music production is your goal...

Both the subject 486 system, and the mentioned Gateway 486, are for straight gaming. I have a P5-166 system that drives the nightmarish setup that includes the larger synths and digital recorder (Cakewalk Pro Audio 8.0), but the entire MIDI network itself is somewhat dual-purpose, and is accessible from whatever is given input into it besides. (The satellite, "Wave Blaster Rack" unit was built more for the Gateway 486 than anything else, admittedly.) I think if I were to go into the minutiae of everything involved, eyes would glaze over, but suffice to say, I'm fairly confident that my setup is more elaborate than any number of actual "production" studios, circa 2002. 🤣

Lest there be any more confusion, the "MIDI General" Dell build is, and will likely remain, a stand-alone gaming system. 😀

Reply 41 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

So, the Interwave chip on the Gravis Ultrasound PnP allows up to eight of its thirty-two voice channels to be used as delay-based effects processors (capable of providing reverb, echo, chorus and flange). Is it safe to assume that no DOS game titles ever took advantage of these features? It seems like it could/should have been possible to adapt their use to Ultramid or Mega-Em, making at least the chorus and reverb effects accessible and controllable through use of standard MIDI CCs. Why wasn't this done?

It's somewhat of a moot point, given that I have the GUSPnP output routed into the SW60XG, allowing for the application of global chorus and reverb effects, but still...

Reply 42 of 70, by bristlehog

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Cloudschatze wrote:

Is it safe to assume that no DOS game titles ever took advantage of these features?

I think it's safe. Of all DOS sound drivers only Miles Sound System (late versions 3.5+) and HMI Sound Operating System support Interwave cards for both PCM and MIDI playback. I don't have their source code to judge if Interwave effects are supported. Anyway, very few games even supported AWE32 effects for SFX (Dungeon Keeper? Eradicator? I know no any others), let alone less popular Ultrasound PnP.

Hardware comparisons and game system requirements: https://technical.city

Reply 44 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I don't know if this is going to be inspiring, or depressing, but here are the relevant acquisition details involved with this system (as asked about in another thread):

Dell Dimension 466DMT
- $15.00, Deseret Industries, 2012

Midiman MultiMixer10
- $26.00, RE-PC, 2006

Gravis GrIP MultiPort w/pads
- $10.00, eBay, 2010

Gravis Ultrasound PnP
- $0.50, RE-PC, 2011

Media Vision Pro Wave DB (PAS3D combo)
- $80.00, private sale, 2009

Media Vision PAS16
- $6.00, eBay, 2006

Creative AWE32 (CT3980)
- $9.95, Ultradrives.com, 2007

Turtle Beach Rio DB
- $20.00, eBay, 2009

Yamaha SW60XG
- $14.73, private sale, 2012

Roland SCC-1
- $30.00, private sale, 2013

Ensoniq Soundscape Elite
- $150.00, private sale, 2002

Reply 46 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

"Do I buy the can of soda from the vending machine, or should I get the GUS PnP instead...?" 🤣

Up until 2012, loose expansion cards could be found in large, "AS-IS" areas at both the Seattle and Tukwila RE-PC stores, from which I'd also managed to find an 8-bit Pro AudioSpectrum, Sound Blaster 1.5, and even an Ensoniq SoundScape DB. The latter cost me a whole quarter!

Sadly, their process has mostly changed, and outside of a few (higher-priced) eBay auctions offered now and again, the majority of expansion cards are now immediately scrapped instead.

Reply 49 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Not that anyone should really care, but this system has seen some minor changes since I first created this thread, the more noteworthy of which include:

  • A permanent home alongside my Optiplex GXa build, with the final sonic treatment being provided by a Roland CM-110, 2.1 monitor set, and with KVM switching between the two systems being accomplished with a rather nice ConnectPro PR-12.

dell201510_s.jpg
(Mr. G is being very camera shy, but is sitting beneath the TG300, in the bottom-right of the photo.)

  • Supplanting the TB Rio DB on the AWE32 with Creative's own Wave Blaster II (to an imagined chorus of "Whys?!").
  • Installing an internal SCSI Iomega Zip100 drive in the 3.5" bay, which is running off of the PAS16 no less, because that's how I roll.
  • Moving the Panasonic multi-CD drive from the slave position on the motherboard's solitary IDE header to the (secondary) IDE header on the AWE32. I like to think that this made some sort of performance difference.
  • Swapping the Ensoniq Soundscape Elite with the (arguably superior) Mediatrix Audiotrix Pro.

atpro_s.jpg
Mediatrix Audiotrix Pro

(Fun-fact: This particular ATPro configuration, which includes the RAM/512K and DSP/Voice daughterboards, retailed for over five-hundred freaking dollars.)

Audiotrix Pro Configuration Summary wrote:
WAVE : 0x530 IRQ : 10 DMA : 3 ADL : 0x388 MPU : 0x370 MPUINT : N/A EFFECTS: 0x318 JOY : Disabled […]
Show full quote

WAVE : 0x530
IRQ : 10
DMA : 3
ADL : 0x388
MPU : 0x370
MPUINT : N/A
EFFECTS: 0x318
JOY : Disabled

Note: Allows for native and WSS digital-audio compatibility in this configuration.

Reply 50 of 70, by carlostex

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
[…]
Show full quote
  • Installing an internal SCSI Iomega Zip100 drive in the 3.5" bay, which is running off of the PAS16 no less, because that's how I roll.
  • Swapping the Ensoniq Soundscape Elite with the (arguably superior) Mediatrix Audiotrix Pro.

These 2 changes are particularly interesting. I too once tried to find an internal SCSI Iomega Zip drive but in 250MB flavour. Seem to be rare though.

(Fun-fact: This particular ATPro configuration, which includes the RAM/512K and DSP/Voice daughterboards, retailed for over five-hundred freaking dollars.)

Holy nuts...

Because i didn't remember the whole config i just went to the first page. The GUS PnP config reminded me that you're probably willing to let go some of the GF1 compatibility to be able to have all cards working in one system. Probably won't matter since this system is not meant for gaming but your rather interesting musical endeavours.

Reply 51 of 70, by badmojo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Most excellent.

Could I humbly request that you describe that musical keyboard you're using? It's occured to me a few times that I should be doing more with my collection of MIDI hardware than playing games, but I don't really know where to start.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 52 of 70, by carlostex

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

^Looks like a CBXK1 Yamaha compact MIDI keyboard:

p12748h-fad6a4a5d70c2456da2ac5152ce3fba4.jpg

You can also get something like a MIDI guitar...

1218315849_5b5784b61f_o.jpg

...or you could get a guitar MIDI pickup which you can connect to your regular electric and acoustic guitars:

gk-2a.jpg

I would personally prefer the latter, since i don't have neither the space or money to invest just in a MIDI guitar 🤣, i'm actually looking into buying something like an Avid Eleven Rack:

eleven_600.jpg

It's much afordable than the current super popular AXE-FX and it sounds almost as good with no need to sell a kidney in the process.

And now i just realized nobody knows what i'm talking about and since i don't want to derail this thread i'll just shut up. 🤣

Reply 53 of 70, by JayCeeBee64

User metadata
Rank Retired
Rank
Retired

I personally consider The MIDI General as the ultimate combination of MIDI jukebox and DOS gaming PC; and while I cannot create one of my own (current circumstances just won't allow me the luxury), I can at least hope to somewhat emulate it someday 😊

A curious question for Cloudschatze: Now that you have the Audiotrix Pro installed, doesn't that make the SW60XG redundant (since the Audiotrix Pro is essentially an SW60XG on steroids)? Or is there something else here that I'm missing?

(I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I've never seen any Mediatrix Peripherals products myself. They were so expensive and exclusive that most local computer and electronic stores didn't even have them; only specialty music stores had pricey computer music gear like Roland/Yamaha modules and sound cards like the Audiotrix Pro - and I couldn't afford PC hardware like this at the time).

EDIT: Almost forgot - I don't find strange replacing the TB Rio DB with a WaveBlaster II; sometimes a change of pace is a good thing (and the Rio DB can go back in at anytime). And adding a SCSI Zip100 drive is a nice touch, in particular since it's plugged into the PAS 16XL SCSI header (never would have thought of trying something like that 😎 ).

Ooohh, the pain......

Reply 54 of 70, by matze79

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

What happens when you launch setsound and try auto detect ?

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 55 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
carlostex wrote:

The GUS PnP config reminded me that you're probably willing to let go some of the GF1 compatibility to be able to have all cards working in one system. Probably won't matter since this system is not meant for gaming but your rather interesting musical endeavours.

Actually, I've not run into much trouble having allocated high DMA and IRQ channels to the GUSPnP, mostly thanks to the "prepgame" utility, as pertains to the former. Having said that, I don't recall now if I had a specific reason for using a high IRQ or not, and have since switched to permanently assigning IRQ3 for its use.

badmojo wrote:

Could I humbly request that you describe that musical keyboard you're using?

As carlostex mentioned, it is indeed a Yamaha CBX-K1. While compact, and great for entering note and controller data into a sequencer, the terrible-feeling mini keys make the thing absolutely joyless to play.

JayCeeBee64 wrote:

Now that you have the Audiotrix Pro installed, doesn't that make the SW60XG redundant (since the Audiotrix Pro is essentially an SW60XG on steroids)? Or is there something else here that I'm missing?

No, aside from some waveform samples that they likely share, the Audiotrix Pro and SW60XG are completely different animals, with likewise dissimilar sounding General MIDI soundsets. On account of it being an XG device, the SW60XG can rightfully be considered the more advanced card concerning MIDI intent, whereas the Audiotrix Pro is more of a general purpose, all-in-one card.

Where the Audiotrix Pro finds its niche in the MIDI General build is its TG100-derived General MIDI sound-set, and WSS-compatibility. Beyond that though, and as outfit with the sample-RAM and effects expansion boards, it is an exemplary OPL4 reference board.

matze79 wrote:

What happens when you launch setsound and try auto detect ?

I want to say that there is probably a preferred device/resource selection order that it uses, which would commonly result in Sound Blaster for digital audio and General MIDI at 0x330, but I'd have to verify.

Reply 57 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
MrEWhite wrote:

Welcome to IRQ Hell. 😜

Not at all. As described on the first page, only IRQ 2/9 is being "shared" by more than one card. Given that I'm not doing any MIDI input, nor anything that would cause simultaneous triggering of that IRQ besides, it's a non-issue.

Reply 58 of 70, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Several weeks ago, I began experiencing power-related issues with the MIDI General build. Specifically, the system would intermittently power itself on without provocation. Ghost in the machine, or so I thought.

Suspecting that something might be affecting the ATX-based soft-power circuitry, I swapped the power-supply and power-button PCB, and gave the mainboard an unnecessary dusting with a can of compressed air. Alas, those efforts were doomed, and I powered the system back on for what would be the terminal power-cycle.

The General had died.

Investigating further, I'd noticed leakage around several of the twenty SMD electrolytic capacitors, seemingly exacerbated by my unleashing of the hurricane in a can. Having neither the equipment nor confidence to undertake the necessary replacement operation, I discovered a local SMT and PCB-manufacturing enterprise who agreed to take on the potentially hopeless task of resurrecting the General...

466mb_s.jpg

...and it pleases me greatly to say that two days, and $42 dollars in parts and labor later, the General yet lives to fight another day!

Reply 59 of 70, by gdjacobs

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Did the replace them all with polymer caps? Looks like they did a really nice job!

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder