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"Madness", One retro PC to rule them all :)

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Reply 60 of 89, by ruthan

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We disscussed X58 performance.. There is comparision of 6 Core X5675 vs. i7-8700K lastest Core i7 and results even better than i thought (i also confirm Xeon overclocking on standard board).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skV9exEDM3w

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 61 of 89, by ruthan

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Agent could you pleas try Q2DOS on you fast CPU, it is fast enough to play it in big resolution as 1600x1200,1600x900 or 1920x1080? My Xeon + slow DDR3 - have only 15 FPS in timedemo.

TImedemo console commads:

timedemo 1
map demo1.dm2

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 62 of 89, by Doomn00b

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Quite impressive work here, Agentx007 - your build is quite an inspiration for me, whom wants to create something similar.

Btw, could you make some Youtube-videos of you playing a few games? Would be interesting too see what Doom1-2 looks and sounds like, with your rig.

Reply 63 of 89, by agent_x007

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Thank you.
As for gameplay video, at this point - I can't (other projects + this PC is dismantled ie. in parts).
I'd like to do a follow up with more gaming (and few hardware updates), but can't really tell when that will be.

Maybe I should get a capture card... hmm.

Either way, I wish you good luck on your project.
This kind of setup REALLY isn't easy to do, and you usually need specific hardware to make it work (and good ammount of software tweaking on top of that).
Do NOT expect everything to work from the start.

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Reply 64 of 89, by Doomn00b

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agent_x007 wrote:
Thank you. As for gameplay video, at this point - I can't (other projects + this PC is dismantled ie. in parts). I'd like to do […]
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Thank you.
As for gameplay video, at this point - I can't (other projects + this PC is dismantled ie. in parts).
I'd like to do a follow up with more gaming (and few hardware updates), but can't really tell when that will be.

Maybe I should get a capture card... hmm.

Either way, I wish you good luck on your project.
This kind of setup REALLY isn't easy to do, and you usually need specific hardware to make it work (and good ammount of software tweaking on top of that).
Do NOT expect everything to work from the start.

Cheers. = )

Yeah, I do figure it'll be a small nightmare to get it going - one definitively has to have a long-term perspective on builds like these - the work itself must be half the goal, 🤣!

Btw, could I get your quick thoughts on how your build would compare when it comes to:
price,
compatibility and
performance,

with these two other "rival" Multi-compat-PC's? They are by Ruthan and RagnarGd respectively.

Have a look here:

RagnarGd mega-build
OS: W98SE (SP 3.0d), Windows XP Pro 32bit, Windows 10 64bit Enterprise LTSB, Multiboot
MB: ASRock 890FX-Deluxe5 (with RLoew Interrupt-Fix for NVidia Driver)
CPU: AMD FX 8350, 4GHz-4.2GHz, 125W TDP, 8 cores, with Wraith-Cooler (W98SE uses only 1 core, XP and W10 all of them)
RAM: 16 GB RAM (DDR3-1333 - 4x 8 GB), of which W98SE sees 1GB, XP sees 3,4 GB, W10 sees 16GB)
(tested successfully with 32 GB Ram)
GPU1: EVGA GeForce 7900 GTX 512 MB, PCIe, with inofficial NVidia driver 82.69 (with commercial RLoew Shutdown-/RAM-/Interrupt-Fix), connected to monitor via VGA by W98SE
GPU2: MSI GeForce GTX 950 PCIe, used by XP and W10 via DVI-D on same Monitor as above
SC1 (onboard): Off (because no driver for W98SE, and because no EAX on any OS)
SC1 (AddIn): SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Platinum PCI
SSD1 (SATAII): (W98SE) / SATAII-SSD Super Talent Ultradrive GX MLC 32GB (on port 5 in "Legacy Mode")
SSD2 (SATAII): (XP) / SATAII-SSD Samsung MLC 128GB
SSD3 (SATAII): (W10) / SATAIII-SSD Crucial M500 480GB
DVD1: on sata-port 6 (in legacy mode)
DVD2: on sata-port 4 (invisible to W98SE)
NIC1 (onboard): Gigabit-LAN, RTL 8111E (connected to PCIe-bus, usable with DOS-Driver under W98SE, not used at the moment)
NIC2 (AddIn): Gigabit-LAN, by TP-Link, Realtek RTL 8111B chipset, PCIe
USB2: onboard (Auto-compatibility-mode)
USB3: onboard PCIe (invisible to W98SE, as no driver for that)
PSU: ?
CASE: ?
COOLER: ?
INPUT: ?

“I use "Usher’s Method" to make RAM above 1GB invisible to W98SE”
“I use this on a DELL IPS 23" Monitor with 1650x1050 (16:10), as that allows for maximum resolution without frame-rate loss on each OS.”

"Madness" : One Retro PC to rule them all.
OS: Windows 2000 SP4 + Windows XP SP3, DOS 6.22, Windows 7 x64 SP1 + Windows Server 2016
MB : Rampage II Extreme (BIOS 2101)
CPU : Core i7 980X (w/BOX cooling)
RAM : Corsair 3x4GB (12GB total)
GPU1 : GeForce 7800 GTX (Reference)
GPU2 : GeForce GTX 780 Ti (Reference)
SC1 : Aureal Vortex 2 + DreamBlaster X2
SC2 : Auzen X-Fi Forte
HDD0 : Transcend Industrial Ultra 1GB (Compact Flash) [DOS 6.22]
HDD1 : WD Raptor 74GB [Win 98 SE]
HDD2 : Kingston SM2280S3G2 (M.2 AHCI/SATA) [W2k+ XP]
HDD3 : Samsung SM961 256GB (NVMe) [W7 + WS 2016]
"Pendrive" (card reader + microSD) : Sandisk 8GB [Clover]
DVD: ?
FDD : GOTEK USB Floppy Emulator
NIC: ?
USB: ?
PSU : OCZ ZS-750W
CASE: none.
COOLER : ?
INPUT: ?

Build: “Ruthan’s special”
OS: DoS 6.22, Windows XP, Windows 98,
MB: Gigabyte EX-58-UD5 - X58 board (3x PCI-E Long, 1x PCI-E 4x, 1x PCI-E x1 + 2x PCI, on board IDE and Floppy, primary GPU selection slot selection, Bios profiles per OS)
CPU: Xeon X5680 - 6c/12threads (40 PCI-E lines)
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 @ 1866 MHz (MB supports up to 24 GB)
GPU1 (DOS+W98): ATI 800 XL GPU (GV-RX801256V)
GPU2 (XP+): GeForce 730 (placeholder for GeForce 9xx - it’s able to boot to Dos too - primary GPU slot selection option is in HP O.E.M Bios)
SC1 (DOS): AOPEN AW744L II Yamaha XG YMF744 YMF724 OPL3 PCI + Rayer General Midi Adapter (IDE DVD-RW connected through cheap SATA to IDE dongle, because SATA DVD drivers have no audio header + CD-ROM DOS audio is working - with analogue audio cable, no floppy, but I have floppy onboard header)
SC2: Aureal Vortex 2
SC3 (W7+): Realtek 889 HD Audio (Enabled - it was disabled for a majority of the testing, but it has no influence on compatibility)
HDD: WD Raptor 160 GB
SSD: 240 GB WD
DVD: on SATA to IDE cable
NIC1: Realtek Gigabit onboard NIC.
NIC2: Broadcom 5721M
USB3: VIA VL8xx
PSU: Enermax Infinite 650W modular PSU
CASE: Coolermaster HAF X 942 case (has room for 9 expansion slots!)
COOLER (cpu): Fractal Celsius S24 (closed-loop water cooler, fairly silent)
INPUT: Logitech PS/2 mouse and keyboard

Reply 65 of 89, by agent_x007

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If performace + price vs. compatibility, go LGA 775 or AM2+/AM3.
No need to buy LGA 1366 or AM3+.

How it compares to others ?
My is the most expensive (i7 980X + GTX 780 Ti [you could throw GTX 980 Ti in there for full DX12 support]) and in general the most powerfull (XP and later OS use 780 Ti while Win2k and later are all installed on SATA/NVMe M.2 drives and high quality MIDI sound in DOS) 😁
It's also confirmed to work with DOS, Win98 SE, Win2k, WinXP, Win7, Win10/Server 2016.
^it's REALLY not needed though (streamlined version for the least ammount of OS'es would be best).

Which is best ?
Depends on how high performance you want, how much you can spend, and what exactly you want to run on it. All three require around LGA 1366 platform investment level.

You can add :
DVD : *None (*file transfers done via pendrive or network, while using Win2k OS or newer, Win98SE install CD copied on hard drive partition).
NIC : Build-in 1Gbps (MB)
USB : Build-in [2.0] (MB)
Cooler : Intel "BOX" stock (LGA 1366 Extreme "Tower")
Input : Generic PS/2 keyboard + Logitech RX250 USB mouse
Notes : Experimental/Proof of concept DO NOT try to build it yourself.
RLoew RAM patch for Win98SE.

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Reply 66 of 89, by ruthan

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Otherwise Agents and Ragnars build have one major flaw, they dont have primary videcards slot bios options, so you have to fiddle with physical cards per OS.. or you need to use Ragnars - dual GPU stunt.. which is complicated, annoying, its not working with 2 geforce card, its working only with some OSes and machines.
Solution is really only Gigabyte MB, or i saw this feature on some O.E.M HP MB.

Here is also X58 MBs comparision table:
https://docs.zoho.com/sheet/published.do?rid= … 6e3c6dc17cafb36

Otherwise Rloew Ram patch is not necessary if dont need more than 1024 MB in Win98, its not cheap.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 67 of 89, by agent_x007

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Lack of primary PCI-e slot isn't that big of an issue for DOS/Win98/Win XP and Win 10.
You put your "DOS" GPU in primary slot, and second one into another one.
Then - disable the primary card in device manager if you don't want to use it.
This should automaticly set the other GPU as main display.

Exception : Win 7.
Kept forcing primary slot display regardless of what I did in device manager, I even tried disabling software PCI-e ports - and it still outputed video to primary slot 😒.

@ruthan The other solution is X58 Classified and hardware switches for PCI-e slots 😁

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Reply 68 of 89, by ruthan

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I have that keep forcing primary card issue, even with Windows 10 with AMD970 board.. and its worse, because 2 Nvidia different driver cant coexist, because of they are using same path for drivers.. with Windows keeped installating driver even for disabled card for every boot.
Other issue is MacOS, Androidx86 and Linux, in first 2 is impossible force primary GPU and in Linux its probably not easy too, because it has still problems with Notebooks with Intel/ Nvidia switching architecture.
Other problem could be slots, because old video in first slot, can from point of view slots usage, because of cards heatsinks design etc.

There are some work arounds, but its PITA..

The other solution is X58 Classified and hardware switches for PCI-e slots

Im interested, do you have more info? Most ultimate would be possibility to disable slots on bios level and make profiles per operating systems..

AM2/AM3 does not support Dos sound cads at all, im not sure about AM1, look our matrix, there are some other chipsets tested:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cvhr6 … K4l0/edit#gid=0

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 72 of 89, by cyberluke

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How you guys get Win98 chipset driver? The slipstreamed Intel INF on MSFN is only up to ICH9, yet you are running ICH10. I'm also interested in Socket 754 and 939 for AMD. Come on guys, just showing off and no real links for the juice here 😁

BTW: I got R9 280X and dual boot to WinXP and Win10 on Core2Quad - no need to do anything with GPU.

Reply 73 of 89, by ruthan

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Its working without chipset drivers, for some newer chipsets there are inf files, to just get right device names for Device manager, but it actually not doing anything else afaik..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 74 of 89, by Bendejo

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I gotta say im quite impressed with you ultimate all in one build. Getting decades of worth of gaming in one machine is nothing short of a miracle. I know its not perfect but 85% percentile in DOS is great. I can see you done a lot of work on the topic. I got a few AIO builds in mind, mainly SS7 and BBX440 sockets, I cant let go of ISA sound cards! Tho it looks like there are some great DOS/98 PCI options. But I also have a Voodoo 5 6000 that I wanted to put on a system and was pointed over to here to check this thread out to get some inspiration.

Reply 76 of 89, by dj_pirtu

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My all-in-one machine is:
Asus A8V Deluxe
Athlon 64 X2 4200+
2GB RAM
160GB HDD
Radeon 3850 AGP
Voodoo3 PCI
ESS SOLO-1
Sound Blaster X-fi

Triple-boots Windows 98SE/DOS, Windows XP and Windows (just for fun).

With setmul.exe I can change CPU clock multiplier from DOS.

I can play DOS-games and Crysis with this. ESS SOLO-1 works flawlessly as SBPRO in DOS because that's the last VIA Chipset which supports PCI-DMA.

In BIOS I just need to change between Voodoo3 and Radeon 3850, in DOS and Win98SE it's Voodoo3 and in WinXP and Win10 it's Radeon 3850.

But still, my favourite all-in-one machine is Abit KT7A with mobile-Athlon (Barton), it has that single ISA slot and Gravis Ultrasound is a must.

Reply 77 of 89, by matti157

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I also start this adventure as I recovered an Asrock X58 supercomputer (3x pci) and bought a Xeon 1366 from China

I have a question, but how to downclock the CPU? Many years ago when I had an i7 920 I had overclocked but never downclocked

Reply 78 of 89, by matti157

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I am building a similar pc but with an X58 supercomputer.
-i7 930
-etherlink 3
-audigy

I have switched the SATA controller to compatible mode. How did you handle the sata?

In compatible if I plug a random pci express card into the first X16 slot, the motherboard blocks the boot by giving me an error on the primary master (hard disk)

Also I want to try the drivers for X58 https://www.modlabs.net/files/experimental-in … rs#.Y7oqUC_SJE4

Reply 79 of 89, by Intel486dx33

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"Madness" : One Retro PC to rule them all.

Sound Blaster live can be made to work with all those operating systems.
I like the idea of just using pen drives for OS and Boot drives.
Not sure what video chips you can use or Network cards.
You should be able to get it to work if you use CF cards, Pen Drives, and swappable SSD’s.