VOGONS


First post, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG
CPU Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2/512k/800
RAM 2x512MB DDR-400

Slots I have available:
4x/8x AGP
3x PCI (4 if I used a single slot video card)
6x 16-bit ISA (there may also be enough space for an 8-bit card in the slot next to the SBC but it would be really squishy)

3 of the ISA slots only have enough room for cards that are about the length of the slot itself.
2 of the ISA slots can have long-ish cards.
1 of the ISA slots can have a full length ISA card IF I modify the drive cage mount.

Video cards I am thinking about using:
ATI x800xt PE
Nvidia Quadro FX3000

I've also got some less high end AGP cards. Pretty sure those are the fastest I have that have WIN98SE drivers.

As far as sound cards, here is what I am thinking.

I'm thinking for PCI an Audigy 2ZS and a Vortex 2 for Windows 98SE.

For a PCI card for DOS I'll probably use an AOPEN Yamaha YMF744.

That leaves me with what to use for ISA.... Maybe an AWE64.
What else? I've literally got a huge number of sound cards.

Whatever I put in, it will probably change at some point, but I would like a starting point.

What about:
Turtle Beach Tropez Plus
Terratec EWS64 XL
Gullimot Maxi Studio ISIS

Probably something with real/clone OPL3 just in case something doesn't work quite right with the YMF744 PCI card.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 1 of 24, by j^aws

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Nice; I have the same backplane and SBC. Whenever I get enough time, my build will be a MIDI box/ DAW with plenty of sound cards for Win98SE. Good luck on the build.

BTW, please can you report if you can disable L1 cache for the P4, and some benches. Cheers.

Reply 2 of 24, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

The BIOS allows you to disable both L1 and L2 cache.

I wonder if it would allow disabling of the L3 cache on the Extreme Edition CPUs.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 3 of 24, by j^aws

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

^^ Even if you could disable L3 cache on EE P4s, being on-die cache doesn't give much flexibility for speed ranges, unlike L3 cache being off-die in a K6-III+ setup using a Socket 7 board.

Lowest multiplier I've seen is 12x on an unlocked P4, and with an FSB of 100 MHz using Socket 478. I could get a Northwood P4 slowed to 1200 MHz. Disabling L1 cache and using Min/ Max FSB, I could get 386 to 486 speed ranges. Then a large gap upto 1200 MHz.

Reply 4 of 24, by hard1k

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

In my book the videocard should be either ATI (or any other with a red PCB), and the main ISA sound should be GUS, no options here 😁

And do you guys have any confidence that it will take the Gallatin EE? I'm interested if I have to source one for the same build.

Fortex, the A3D & XG/OPL3 accelerator (Vortex 2 + YMF744 combo sound card)
AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted on Amibay)

Reply 5 of 24, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I don't see why it wouldn't take a Gallatin EE. I tested a Prescott Mobile 3.2 in it and it booted up and those are newer so I'm guessing the microcode for Gallatin is in there as well.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 7 of 24, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
j^aws wrote:

^^ Are these Prescott Mobile P4s unlocked? And their lowest multiplier?

AFAIK, the Socket 478 EE P4s are multiplier locked.

I think the lowest multiplier is 6x, but I would need to probably set the system up with XP to see if I can change the multiplier via software.

I don't have any normal s478 motherboards so I don't really have another way to test to see if the multiplier is changeable.

Not sure why you would ever need anything higher than the stock multiplier on an overclockable board though. Pretty sure the multiplier is not going to be fully unlocked.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 8 of 24, by j^aws

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
cyclone3d wrote:

Not sure why you would ever need anything higher than the stock multiplier on an overclockable board though. Pretty sure the multiplier is not going to be fully unlocked.

If 6x multiplier is possible, and starting with 100 MHz FSB, we should see a range from 286-486 speeds open up with L1 cache disabled. Of course, I have other systems in that range, but this will make IEIs board even more flexible.

Reply 9 of 24, by buckeye

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
cyclone3d wrote:
Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use. […]
Show full quote

Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG
CPU Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2/512k/800
RAM 2x512MB DDR-400

Slots I have available:
4x/8x AGP
3x PCI (4 if I used a single slot video card)
6x 16-bit ISA (there may also be enough space for an 8-bit card in the slot next to the SBC but it would be really squishy)

3 of the ISA slots only have enough room for cards that are about the length of the slot itself.
2 of the ISA slots can have long-ish cards.
1 of the ISA slots can have a full length ISA card IF I modify the drive cage mount.

Video cards I am thinking about using:
ATI x800xt PE
Nvidia Quadro FX3000

I've also got some less high end AGP cards. Pretty sure those are the fastest I have that have WIN98SE drivers.

As far as sound cards, here is what I am thinking.

I'm thinking for PCI an Audigy 2ZS and a Vortex 2 for Windows 98SE.

For a PCI card for DOS I'll probably use an AOPEN Yamaha YMF744.

That leaves me with what to use for ISA.... Maybe an AWE64.
What else? I've literally got a huge number of sound cards.

Whatever I put in, it will probably change at some point, but I would like a starting point.

What about:
Turtle Beach Tropez Plus
Terratec EWS64 XL
Gullimot Maxi Studio ISIS

Probably something with real/clone OPL3 just in case something doesn't work quite right with the YMF744 PCI card.

What games are you targeting with this setup? Impressive parts line up, way beyond my "depth" tho on the troubleshooting/testing front.

Asus P5N-E Intel Core 2 Duo 3.33ghz. 4GB DDR2 Geforce 470 1GB SB X-Fi Titanium 650W XP SP3
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 80GB SSD Radeon 7200 64mb SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 10 of 24, by tpowell.ca

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
cyclone3d wrote:
Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use. […]
Show full quote

Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG

I'm curious about this. Won't there be possible IRQ issues?
Is it even possible to manually assign IRQs (reserve) for use by the backplane?

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
    Tesla: GA-6BXC, VIA C3 Ezra-T, 256MB, 120GB SATA, YMF744, GUSpnp, Quadro2
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, Voodoo3

Reply 11 of 24, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
tpowell.ca wrote:
cyclone3d wrote:
Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use. […]
Show full quote

Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG

I'm curious about this. Won't there be possible IRQ issues?
Is it even possible to manually assign IRQs (reserve) for use by the backplane?

Yep, the BIOS has the auto/manual settings for IRQs for legacy use. 😀

Working on my 486 build at the moment, but I will definitely post once I do some more on this build.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 12 of 24, by PARUS

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Guys you may don't much worry about minimum multiplier for DOS games. Pentium 4 has specific register 0x19A which does slow down CPU via skipping effective tacts. It is a special function for CPU throttle if it get too high temperature. But we can turn it manually including in pure DOS. Values are (%) 87.5, 75, 67.5, 50, 32.5, 25, 12.5, and it is NOT chipset throttling, please don't confuse! Pentium 2/3 both haven't this function.
I have DOS tool which can work with MSR. By this tool it is possible to slow down P4 CPU via 19Ah register.

Reply 13 of 24, by j^aws

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
PARUS wrote:

Guys you may don't much worry about minimum multiplier for DOS games. Pentium 4 has specific register 0x19A which does slow down CPU via skipping effective tacts. It is a special function for CPU throttle if it get too high temperature. But we can turn it manually including in pure DOS. Values are (%) 87.5, 75, 67.5, 50, 32.5, 25, 12.5, and it is NOT chipset throttling, please don't confuse! Pentium 2/3 both haven't this function.
I have DOS tool which can work with MSR. By this tool it is possible to slow down P4 CPU via 19Ah register.

That's really cool to hear. I'd benchmark this to see what kind of Speedsys results are achievable. Do you have a link to this tool?

Reply 14 of 24, by PARUS

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

j^aws, Ultimate multiboot - Old+New (DOS+W98,Xp,7,10+Linux,MacOS,Android-x86) on newest HW research - compatibility matrix
For Pentium 4 it is only CPU throttle available (MSR 0x19A), others (cache, multiplier) are not available. Thus Core 2 is much more customizable than NetBurst.

Reply 15 of 24, by Scraphoarder

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

There exist some socket 775 PIAGP SBCs such as one named SAGP-8654-EVG that looks like it can take a Pentium D, but probably not Core 2 Duos. Would like to have that SBC to play with, but its most likely expensive and difficult to find.

Reply 16 of 24, by hard1k

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Google doesn't know anything about it, do you have any additional info?

Fortex, the A3D & XG/OPL3 accelerator (Vortex 2 + YMF744 combo sound card)
AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted on Amibay)

Reply 17 of 24, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
hard1k wrote:

Google doesn't know anything about it, do you have any additional info?

Found it:
http://www.attro.com/sbc/SAGP-8654EVG.htm

Pentium D is the max officially supported and it is green instead of red.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 19 of 24, by cyclone3d

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

It is still sitting on my work bench. I did finally get a P4EE I am going to put in it and did test it with an AWE64 which worked fine but I haven't completed it yet.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK