Great build, except for that Voodoo 1, which is a severe bottleneck for the Tillamook, even more so when overclocked. 😀
I would save the Voodoo 1 for a Pentium MMX 166 build or something like that, and go with a Voodoo 2 (or even a Voodoo 3) for this one.

Nice system! Very similar to mine though with a more powerful CPU.

I'm mostly using my rig as a DOS gaming machine, but I did try out a few Windows 3D accelerated games as well since I recently got a Voodoo1. It would be interesting if you could post some benchmarks to compare.

bloodem wrote on 2021-06-21, 08:43:

Great build, except for that Voodoo 1, which is a severe bottleneck for the Tillamook, even more so when overclocked. 😀
I would save the Voodoo 1 for a Pentium MMX 166 build or something like that, and go with a Voodoo 2 (or even a Voodoo 3) for this one.

It might be a bottleneck even for an MMX 166.

I ran some benchmarks and compared them to this Anandtech review from 1998. Somehow, I'm getting similar frame rates as their Pentium II 266 system. Maybe some of the patches and drivers that weren't available at that time helped, but it's still evident that the Voodoo1 is what's holding down the performance.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-21, 09:48:

It might be a bottleneck even for an MMX 166.

I ran some benchmarks and compared them to this Anandtech review from 1998. Somehow, I'm getting similar frame rates as their Pentium II 266 system. Maybe some of the patches and drivers that weren't available at that time helped, but it's still evident that the Voodoo1 is what's holding down the performance.

Yes, it's very likely that this is the case. The Voodoo 1 was initially designed around the Pentium 90 era. In an interview that I saw, Gary Tarolli actually mentions how he realized that a Pentium 90 was powerful enough to handle the compute intensive geometry phase (i.e. the "transform" part, that handles all the 4x4 matrix operations such as rotation, translation, scaling, projecting, etc).
Since a Pentium MMX 166 with its doubled L1 cache is more or less equivalent to a Pentium 200... it's safe to assume that it will also be bottlenecked by the Voodoo 1.

Now, even so, I personally would not build a socket 7 system with a CPU that is slower than the Pentium MMX 166... I feel like the Pentium MMX 166 offers great Windows 95 performance and if you go for a Pentium 100 or lower, the experience is not as good.

bloodem wrote on 2021-06-21, 08:43:

Great build, except for that Voodoo 1, which is a severe bottleneck for the Tillamook, even more so when overclocked. 😀
I would save the Voodoo 1 for a Pentium MMX 166 build or something like that, and go with a Voodoo 2 (or even a Voodoo 3) for this one.

Thanks! I like the Voodoo as it seems to work well with older games which is mainly what this system will be aimed at. I have another system with Voodoo2's and another with a Voodoo3. With that being said, I wasn't aware as to just how slow a CPU is the optimal match for it! I know that when the 3dfx became available to most people, the P166 was the latest and greatest, but I suppose it makes sense that the card was also designed to work well with slower CPUs.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-21, 09:25:

Nice system! Very similar to mine though with a more powerful CPU.

I'm mostly using my rig as a DOS gaming machine, but I did try out a few Windows 3D accelerated games as well since I recently got a Voodoo1. It would be interesting if you could post some benchmarks to compare.

I just saw your thread when I came to check on this! I'll definitely be up for doing some benchmarks to compare; one thing I did notice compared to the 233 MMX that I previously used was that the system was a good deal faster in Carmageddon II - it actually becomes playable!

bloodem wrote on 2021-06-21, 13:05:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-21, 09:48:

It might be a bottleneck even for an MMX 166.

I ran some benchmarks and compared them to this Anandtech review from 1998. Somehow, I'm getting similar frame rates as their Pentium II 266 system. Maybe some of the patches and drivers that weren't available at that time helped, but it's still evident that the Voodoo1 is what's holding down the performance.

Yes, it's very likely that this is the case. The Voodoo 1 was initially designed around the Pentium 90 era. In an interview that I saw, Gary Tarolli actually mentions how he realized that a Pentium 90 was powerful enough to handle the compute intensive geometry phase (i.e. the "transform" part, that handles all the 4x4 matrix operations such as rotation, translation, scaling, projecting, etc).
Since a Pentium MMX 166 with its doubled L1 cache is more or less equivalent to a Pentium 200... it's safe to assume that it will also be bottlenecked by the Voodoo 1.

IIRC my friends and I started getting Voodoo 1s in the era where we had Pentium 166, 166MMX and 233MMX. According to Wikipedia, Voodoo 1 launched in autumn 1996 and the Pentium MMX in January 1997, so I would call Voodoo 1 and MMX pretty period-equivalent ..

Yeah, that is completely true, but it has nothing to do with the card being a bottleneck for those CPUs or not. 😀
Back then a Voodoo was mind blowing anyway, nobody even considered the bottleneck factor, because there wasn't anything else to compare it to 😁
When the Voodoo came out, everybody was on S3 Trios, Virges & similar video cards. Once you added a Voodoo and saw GLQuake for the first time, the last thing on your mind would've been "gee, even if this card is blazing fast compared to what my experience has been so far, is it possible that it is still a bottleneck for my current CPU?" 🤣

Haha, good point! 🤣

How do you get a mobile CPU working on a normal socket 7 board? And does the l2 cache work?

From this thread, it seems possible to have L2 working with a Tillamook Tillamook 266MHz and working L2 cache?

Hezus wrote on 2021-06-23, 10:42:

How do you get a mobile CPU working on a normal socket 7 board? And does the l2 cache work?

The appropriate modifications to the CPU (which I've posted in the thread linked below), plus modifying the motherboard to run CPUs at a lower voltage. Technically the I/O voltage is over the ranges defined by Intel for Tillamook, but I've been using it for many hours with no stability issues.

H3nrik V! wrote on 2021-06-23, 11:06:

From this thread, it seems possible to have L2 working with a Tillamook Tillamook 266MHz and working L2 cache?

Yup! Many had found some stuff before me on there, I found what I think is the last piece of the puzzle in grounding the AL1 pin to ensure the chip uses split-rail voltages.

Great build Tillamook is a bucket list CPU for sure.

I would definitely go for a Voodoo 3/Voodo2SLI option though.

And I have to say...K6-3+ smashes the Pentium MMX....of course i AM a AMD fanboy and happy to admit it 😉

Edit: Pass on the Voodoo 3/2SLI, maybe go with a Banshee option? Should do well on that CPU, maybe less money too.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-06-24, 15:47:

Edit: Pass on the Voodoo 3/2SLI, maybe go with a Banshee option? Should do well on that CPU, maybe less money too.

Not so much... a Banshee is still a bottleneck even @ 640 x 480 in many games (like GLQuake, for example).
Of course, it is DEFINITELY much better than a Voodoo 1 in every way (except compatibility).

bloodem wrote on 2021-06-24, 18:33:

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-06-24, 15:47:

Edit: Pass on the Voodoo 3/2SLI, maybe go with a Banshee option? Should do well on that CPU, maybe less money too.

Not so much... a Banshee is still a bottleneck even @ 640 x 480 in many games (like GLQuake, for example).
Of course, it is DEFINITELY much better than a Voodoo 1 in every way (except compatibility).

This makes sense. I've never actually owned one, just figured it would slot in nicely between a single Voodoo 2 and a Voodoo 3.

Maybe a single Voodoo 2 with a decent 2D card would be ideal. Gets pricey though if you don't already have the hardware.
Just seems a waste to use a Voodoo 3 on such a lowly Pentium MMX, not to insult the rather special Tillamook but it is what it is.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-06-24, 20:12:

Maybe a single Voodoo 2 with a decent 2D card would be ideal. Gets pricey though if you don't already have the hardware.
Just seems a waste to use a Voodoo 3 on such a lowly Pentium MMX, not to insult the rather special Tillamook but it is what it is.

I'd agree with this.
I've got a Banshee on a Slot A 600Mhz and plays NFS3 just as well as the P3 600 with V2SLI fine so can't imagine a Socket 7 rig pushing the card too much either.
Not disagreeing with bloodem, if all your chasing is raw speed then V2 or better will give even better results but now its the Voodoo been under utilised.

I think a Banshee isn't a bad shout but finding a PCI one, and at a reasonable price isn't getting any easier these days. I have a nice Gigabyte GA-630 Banshee spare currently, but it's AGP. The Voodoo2 is a bit wasted on this system too I think; I'm happy with my two in SLI in a P3 machine (alongside a Rage Fury Maxx). I like having a ViRGE in there just as another 3D accelerator, although admittedly I only use it really to play Terminal Velocity and Screamer. As mentioned I did have an ATi card in there and the ATi CIF accelerated WipEout runs well, but as a single exclusive game it wasn't really worth it. Whilst I know the Tillamook throws the authenticity of the machine out of the window somewhat, I like that the original Voodoo is authentic to the build in general. I'd love to find a 6MB model if possible, even though I know that the extra 2MB RAM doesn't really make any difference to most games targeting the Voodoo1.

RichB93 wrote on 2021-06-25, 11:26:

I'd love to find a 6MB model if possible, even though I know that the extra 2MB RAM doesn't really make any difference to most games targeting the Voodoo1.

Any Voodoo1 with more than 4 MB becomes less compatible with early Glide games, which kinda defeats the point of having that card.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-25, 11:34:

RichB93 wrote on 2021-06-25, 11:26:

I'd love to find a 6MB model if possible, even though I know that the extra 2MB RAM doesn't really make any difference to most games targeting the Voodoo1.

Any Voodoo1 with more than 4 MB becomes less compatible with early Glide games, which kinda defeats the point of having that card.

I was not aware of that; thanks for the heads up! I guess I don't need to feel too bad about having a 4MB card then! 😜

RichB93 wrote on 2021-06-25, 15:13:

I was not aware of that; thanks for the heads up! I guess I don't need to feel too bad about having a 4MB card then! 😜

The incompatibilities are mentioned on the Vogons wiki.

Also, LGR has a video which showcases what happens when you use a Voodoo1 with > 4 MB.