ExplodingLemur wrote on 2023-02-12, 19:43:

w00t! I'm going to see about doing a small run (5-25) of these through JLCPCB. Once I get all the stuff uploaded to JLCPCB I can see what the manufacturing cost is and how many I can afford to have done for redistribution in the US 😉 I just got the BoM put together in their format, gotta generate a PnP file now.

Erm, so the first thing you do when handed an open source project is try to make some money out of it while I'm currently selling these? 😮 I mean sure, I'm not gonna stop you, but kinda makes me not want to open-source my next thing.
I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into this over several years and I don't have a problem with people building their own - that's why it's open source hw - but the kind thing would be to leave the selling of finished boards to the creator, at least for a while huh? 😒

Eivind wrote on 2023-02-12, 19:57:

ExplodingLemur wrote on 2023-02-12, 19:43:

w00t! I'm going to see about doing a small run (5-25) of these through JLCPCB. Once I get all the stuff uploaded to JLCPCB I can see what the manufacturing cost is and how many I can afford to have done for redistribution in the US 😉 I just got the BoM put together in their format, gotta generate a PnP file now.

Erm, so the first thing you do when handed an open source project is try to make some money out of it while I'm currently selling these? 😮 I mean sure, I'm not gonna stop you, but kinda makes me not want to open-source my next thing.
I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into this over several years and I don't have a problem with people building their own - that's why it's open source hw - but the kind thing would be to leave the selling of finished boards to the creator, at least for a while huh? 😒

I'm not trying to make any money off this, I just wanted to get some of these out into folks' hands at cost, with just the assembly that JLCPCB can do. Their minimum run is 5 boards, and I don't need 5 TinyLlamas, so at the very least I'd be looking for 4 others interested in finishing up builds (Crystal Audio chips, headers, etc to be completed by recipient), and with scale comes cost savings. I wasn't under the impression you were doing this as a money-making venture, but if you're looking for profit I'll bugger off and try to figure out what to do with 4 other TinyLlamas I guess.

ExplodingLemur wrote on 2023-02-13, 01:08:

Eivind wrote on 2023-02-12, 19:57:

ExplodingLemur wrote on 2023-02-12, 19:43:

w00t! I'm going to see about doing a small run (5-25) of these through JLCPCB. Once I get all the stuff uploaded to JLCPCB I can see what the manufacturing cost is and how many I can afford to have done for redistribution in the US 😉 I just got the BoM put together in their format, gotta generate a PnP file now.

Erm, so the first thing you do when handed an open source project is try to make some money out of it while I'm currently selling these? 😮 I mean sure, I'm not gonna stop you, but kinda makes me not want to open-source my next thing.
I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into this over several years and I don't have a problem with people building their own - that's why it's open source hw - but the kind thing would be to leave the selling of finished boards to the creator, at least for a while huh? 😒

I'm not trying to make any money off this, I just wanted to get some of these out into folks' hands at cost, with just the assembly that JLCPCB can do. Their minimum run is 5 boards, and I don't need 5 TinyLlamas, so at the very least I'd be looking for 4 others interested in finishing up builds (Crystal Audio chips, headers, etc to be completed by recipient), and with scale comes cost savings. I wasn't under the impression you were doing this as a money-making venture, but if you're looking for profit I'll bugger off and try to figure out what to do with 4 other TinyLlamas I guess.

Alright, please excuse me if I was a little grumpy back there. I have no issues with you ordering 5 boards and handing them out to friends. You did write "5-25" though, and used the word "redistribution", which sounded a bit more serious.
You're right, I'm not doing this as a money-making venture. Taking into account all the money I've spent on parts and prototypes + the countless hours spent, this is some seriously bad business for me! 😀 What I'd like though, is recuperating a fraction of my expense by selling some boards I have left and also helping out folks who aren't able to do all the assembly themselves.
No worries man, we're good.

Eivind as you order from JLCPCB, dont you have any files ready to go, for JLCPCB BOM? 😉 would save us some time to put a order 😉

tabm0de wrote on 2023-02-13, 07:41:

Eivind as you order from JLCPCB, dont you have any files ready to go, for JLCPCB BOM? 😉 would save us some time to put a order 😉

Short answer: nope.
Long answer: the gerber files are included and will work today, next week and 2 years from now. BOM files however need to be updated about every few weeks in order to be correct due to constant changes in stock. I've made a suggested BOM list in the wiki, I hope that should suffice.

Eivind wrote on 2023-02-13, 09:51:

tabm0de wrote on 2023-02-13, 07:41:

Eivind as you order from JLCPCB, dont you have any files ready to go, for JLCPCB BOM? 😉 would save us some time to put a order 😉

Short answer: nope.
Long answer: the gerber files are included and will work today, next week and 2 years from now. BOM files however need to be updated about every few weeks in order to be correct due to constant changes in stock. I've made a suggested BOM list in the wiki, I hope that should suffice.

well is there anyway to order a full kit instead build it?

Skylord4321 wrote on 2023-02-13, 23:45:

Eivind wrote on 2023-02-13, 09:51:

tabm0de wrote on 2023-02-13, 07:41:

Eivind as you order from JLCPCB, dont you have any files ready to go, for JLCPCB BOM? 😉 would save us some time to put a order 😉

Short answer: nope.
Long answer: the gerber files are included and will work today, next week and 2 years from now. BOM files however need to be updated about every few weeks in order to be correct due to constant changes in stock. I've made a suggested BOM list in the wiki, I hope that should suffice.

well is there anyway to order a full kit instead build it?

I'm not selling this as a kit, no. If you really want to solder every component yourself, order the PCB using the gerber files and components from LCSC.

Throwing out a question regarding heat sink, have heatsink on the chip and remove the "blue" heat sink that it comes with or just putt heat sink on top on the blue one. What could be pros and cons depending the way to go?

tabm0de wrote on 2023-02-14, 13:34:

Throwing out a question regarding heat sink, have heatsink on the chip and remove the "blue" heat sink that it comes with or just putt heat sink on top on the blue one. What could be pros and cons depending the way to go?

Underneath the blue 86Duino heat sink/shield, there's a fat thermally conductive pad between it and the CPU. If you want better thermals, just remove both of those and put a proper heat sink with a thermal adhesive double-sided tape on the CPU instead. There's also a RAM package on the SOM, but it doesn't get hot and doesn't require cooling.

Here's a photo:

I used a simple little aluminum heatsink from Digikey.

I just ordered a run of 10 boards from JLCPCB! They came out to about $33/each. They were out of stock of the 16MHz crystals and the 3.5mm audio jack and I totally forgot to look for substitute parts. Oops.
Anyway, for anyone in the US that's interested (sorry other countries but I don't want to deal with export/import/customs stuff) I'm gonna sell off the extra 9, shipping within the US should be about $8, so $41 $42 total.
EDIT 2: Found and ordered the crystals and headphone jacks for$10 total, so another dollar per board.
EDIT 3: All gone!

To set expectations: You'll get an untested/unprogrammed board with all the surface-mount components installed EXCEPT the crystal (X1), 3.5mm audio jack (J3), Crystal Audio chip (U3), and the headers for the 86Duino (P1A/P1B). No through-hole headers will be installed. You'll need to obtain and install those parts yourself, as well as the Wemos D1, I2S audio CODEC, 86Duino, and miniPCIe VGA card of your choice. These boards SHOULD work (JLCPCB seems pretty good with assembly) but I can't guarantee anything, your mileage may vary, participate at your own risk, etc, so please don't yell at me (and ESPECIALLY don't yell at Eivind because he's got nothing to do with this little group buy other than agreeing he's cool with it) if something's borked. You want a guaranteed working board, order one from the source 😀

I'm not collecting money until these show up (probably in 3-4 weeks) but I want to get a list of interested folks for when they do arrive so go fill out this Google Form if you'd like to put your name down. They're all gone now.

A few llamas herded together, waiting to be shipped out:

I was able to make it work, maybe because I have ver 2 of the board. I put the configuration in the wiki. https://github.com/sandlbn/tinyllama2/wiki/USB-CD-ROM Files that I used are located here. https://github.com/sandlbn/tinyllama2/t ... USB_CDROM

tabm0de wrote on 2023-01-10, 12:10:

Wanted to try something new today, a usb cdrom in dos 😁 i finnaly got it to find it and load it, problem is as soon then USBASPI is loaded the usb keyboard stops working, maybe it resets the port or something.

Is there any one else that has been trying usb cdrom? 😜

sndlbn wrote on 2023-03-01, 06:42:

I was able to make it work, maybe because I have ver 2 of the board. I put the configuration in the wiki. https://github.com/sandlbn/tinyllama2/wiki/USB-CD-ROM Files that I used are located here. https://github.com/sandlbn/tinyllama2/t ... USB_CDROM

tabm0de wrote on 2023-01-10, 12:10:

Wanted to try something new today, a usb cdrom in dos 😁 i finnaly got it to find it and load it, problem is as soon then USBASPI is loaded the usb keyboard stops working, maybe it resets the port or something.

Is there any one else that has been trying usb cdrom? 😜

Sweet 😀 ye its because rev 2, as it does something to the usb controller and makes the usb keyboard stop working 😀

Thanks for verifying it works on rev 2 as i thought 😀 haven’t ordered any yet as I already have rev 1 😉

Just a quick thought. With the shortage of Raspberry Pi Zero 2 boards (at least here in USA). Would it be possible to make a small adapter to connect a Waveblaster board to the crystal chip for midi tunes? I have a couple waveblaster boards from Serdashop and was thinking how great it would be to use one on the TinyLlama (or Big Llama). Thanks

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-01, 15:48:

Just a quick thought. With the shortage of Raspberry Pi Zero 2 boards (at least here in USA). Would it be possible to make a small adapter to connect a Waveblaster board to the crystal chip for midi tunes? I have a couple waveblaster boards from Serdashop and was thinking how great it would be to use one on the TinyLlama (or Big Llama). Thanks

Maaaaybe... I'm not familiar with how a waveblaster works, does it basically just process a serial midi signal and send back analog audio?

Look at rasteri’s board as he has it on his computer 😀

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-01, 15:58:

Maaaaybe... I'm not familiar with how a waveblaster works, does it basically just process a serial midi signal and send back analog audio?

Yep, here's the pinout: https://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html
BRESET (pin 15 on the CS4237B) would drive the wavetable RESET input. Is that exposed on the Pi header? (I can check in KiCAD in a bit)
The +/- 12V could be an issue though (probably to drive opamps for the audio line output?) Might need a boost converter and an inverter for proper compatibility.

ExplodingLemur wrote on 2023-03-01, 16:27:

Yep, here's the pinout: https://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html BRESET (pin 15 on the CS4237B) would drive the w […]
Show full quote

Eivind wrote on 2023-03-01, 15:58:

Maaaaybe... I'm not familiar with how a waveblaster works, does it basically just process a serial midi signal and send back analog audio?

Yep, here's the pinout: https://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html
BRESET (pin 15 on the CS4237B) would drive the wavetable RESET input. Is that exposed on the Pi header? (I can check in KiCAD in a bit)
The +/- 12V could be an issue though (probably to drive opamps for the audio line output?) Might need a boost converter and an inverter for proper compatibility.

Should definitely be doable.
A few considerations:
- There's no reset input on the Pi header. Not 100% sure it's needed for the waveblaster though? When would it be activated?
- The MIDI signal is coming out of the CS4237B as a 5V TTL, but resistor-divided down to ~3.3V for the Pi's sake. Pretty sure a waveblaster wouldn't mind (3.3V high is still in the "ok" zone for a 5V TTL signal), but something to keep in mind perhaps.
- There's no +/- 12V on the TinyLlama. Would have to be created on the adapter board, a simple charge pump might be enough, not sure. Also, I know these voltages are in the original specs, but not sure they're actually needed for modern waveblaster clones...?
- The analog left and right channel + analog gnd would go to where the 3 pins are connected to the current DAC board. Not sure if that board likes to be backfed anything, probably best to desolder it. That would also free up space for the adapter.

Does anyone want to try this? 😁

Only the original waveboards need the 12v. All of the newly created ones run on 5v. Here is the simple adapter that was made to just use the gameport for modern waveblaster boards. And that port only has 5V on the pins:
https://www.serdashop.com/CHiLLandPhilAdapter so sounds pretty doable, maybe this tiny S2 waveboard would work best? https://www.serdashop.com/waveblaster . If a diagram to wire it up is available at some point I would be willing to try it with mine.

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-03-01, 17:35:

Only the original waveboards need the 12v. All of the newly created ones run on 5v. Here is the simple adapter that was made to just use the gameport for modern waveblaster boards. And that port only has 5V on the pins:
https://www.serdashop.com/CHiLLandPhilAdapter so sounds pretty doable, maybe this tiny S2 waveboard would work best? https://www.serdashop.com/waveblaster . If a diagram to wire it up is available at some point I would be willing to try it with mine.

Aaron ordered an S2 for me, I'll try hooking it up to a llama and see if this works. If it does, I'll spin up a small batch of adapter boards and sell at cost to whomever's interested.