VOGONS


Reply 20 of 142, by bloodem

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Great build!

These Athlon 64 CPUs are actually very flexible (albeit, not as flexible as an Athlon XP Thoroughbred).
Throw in a Yamaha YMF7x4 sound card for DOS, and you've got yourself a system that can pretty much run 15 - 20 years worth of games. 😀 I know that you have other PCs which are much more suitable for DOS, but a flexible system never hurts (you'd need to fix the EMM issue, though). My solution would be a SATA to IDE adapter, you won't really see a major difference in speed.

One thing I noticed in your Everest screenshot is that your card's memory is running at a lower frequency than it should on a GeForce 4 Ti 4200.
These cards typically have 4ns memory (some have 3.6ns memory), so you should be able to at least reach the 250/500 MHz, which would be the norm for a Ti 4200, or even higher than that (530 MHz or more is usually doable with 4ns VRAM, especially if it's made by Hynix).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 21 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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bloodem wrote on 2022-05-05, 19:28:

Great build!

Cheers! I took your advice on the CPU and GPU coolers. 😉 You can see a better picture of that GeForce4 and its cooler here.

Throw in a Yamaha YMF7x4 sound card for DOS, and you've got yourself a system that can pretty much run 15 - 20 years worth of games.

I did consider that, but the BIOS on this motherboard is very limited and doesn't let me manually assign IRQs to specific devices. I'm used to this when managing multiple sound cards, so I just didn't want to bother here. As you say, I do have other builds that are better suited for that.

One thing I noticed in your Everest screenshot is that your card's memory is running at a lower frequency than it should on a GeForce 4 Ti 4200.

I think that's just because it's a 128 MB version. From what I remember, those came with lower memory clocks by default.

That said, in the Anandtech review of this Gainward GeForce4, they managed to overclock it to 330/540 with stock cooling, which is pretty crazy. I don't usually overclock retro hardware, but I might consider it if I can get my hands on some suitable memory heatsinks.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 22 of 142, by bloodem

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 19:47:

Cheers! I took your advice on the CPU and GPU coolers. 😉 You can see a better picture of that GeForce4 and its cooler here.

I noticed it, very nice! 😀

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 19:47:

I did consider that, but the BIOS on this motherboard is very limited and doesn't let me manually assign IRQs to specific devices. I'm used to this when managing multiple sound cards, so I just didn't want to bother here. As you say, I do have other builds that are better suited for that.

Typically you wouldn't really need to play with IRQ assignments, you might just need to move each sound card to a specific PCI slot.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 19:47:

I think that's just because it's a 128 MB version. From what I remember, those came with lower memory clocks by default.
That said, in the Anandtech review of this Gainward GeForce4, they managed to overclock it to 330/540 with stock cooling, which is pretty crazy. I don't usually overclock retro hardware, but I might consider it if I can get my hands on some suitable memory heatsinks.

True, didn't realize it was the 128 MB model.
However, regarding the VRAM, I wouldn't even consider it overclocking (at least not up to 250/500), it would be more like restoring it's spec capability. 😀

Now, it is true, there are situations where even if the memory is rated to support a certain clock speed, it might actually NOT be stable at that frequency (this can be either because they used tighter timings, or the memory power delivery is not the best - this shouldn't be the case with a Gainward, though, it usually happens with cheapo cards).

Regarding memory cooling, it really depends on the memory, you'll have to test it yourself. Some barely get warm, others get extremely hot (even on similar card models). For example, I have two Elsa Erazor X2 GeForce 256 DDR cards, both with Infineon memory (different manufacturing dates, though). And, as it turns out, the newer memory is at least 15 degrees C cooler than the older one (probably because of manufacturing improvements/refinements during those few months, lower memory voltage on that specific batch of cards, etc).

Either way, I would say that, when it comes to memory, anything up to 50 - 55 degrees C is fine for long term use and heatsinks should not be required (it will feel quite hot to the touch, though, but don't worry about it). Of course, adding heatsinks would definitely not hurt in this case. If, on the other hand, the memory remains warm-ish (during gameplay/benchmark loops), you can definitely forget about heatsinks. 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 23 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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bloodem wrote on 2022-05-06, 05:06:

Typically you wouldn't really need to play with IRQ assignments, you might just need to move each sound card to a specific PCI slot.

Well, this board only has 3 PCI slots, with the first one being kinda blocked off by the GPU cooler. So not a lot of room for maneuvering there.

OTOH, here's what I usually do with a BIOS which allows me to manually assign IRQs. First, I disable the serial and parallel ports. Then, I manually force the GPU to use IRQ 3 and the on-board USB 1.1 controller to use IRQ 4. This usually frees up IRQs 5, 7, 10 and 11, of which the two PCI sound cards take 10 and 11, while their respective SB emulation devices use 5 and 7. No resource sharing, no conflicts, no headaches. 😀

However, regarding the VRAM, I wouldn't even consider it overclocking (at least not up to 250/500), it would be more like restoring it's spec capability.

Heh, fair enough. Truthfully, I don't have much use for overclocking in Win9x games, as their performance is quite good on this system even at stock clocks. And the only WinXP games that I play on this rig are Gothic 1 and the original Splinter Cell. While the latter would benefit slightly from the overclock, it wouldn't make much of a difference since I always play it at the highest settings for maximum eye candy, so my FPS tends to stay in the low 20s anyhow. 😁

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 24 of 142, by bloodem

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-06, 05:55:

OTOH, here's what I usually do with a BIOS which allows me to manually assign IRQs. First, I disable the serial and parallel ports. Then, I manually force the GPU to use IRQ 3 and the on-board USB 1.1 controller to use IRQ 4. This usually frees up IRQs 5, 7, 10 and 11, of which the two sound cards take 10 and 11, while their respective SB emulation devices use 5 and 7. No resource sharing, no conflicts, no headaches. 😀

Yeah, whenever possible I go about it in a similar way, but sometimes all it takes is putting the DOS card in the right slot and things will fall in place automagically. 😁

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-06, 05:55:

Heh, fair enough. Truthfully, I don't have much use for overclocking in Win9x games, as their performance is quite good on this system even at stock clocks. And the only WinXP games that I play on this rig are Gothic 1 and the original Splinter Cell. While the latter would benefit slightly from the overclock, it wouldn't make much of a difference since I always play it at the highest settings for maximum eye candy, so my FPS generally stays in the low 20s anyhow. 😁

Indeed, when it comes to Splinter Cell, it won't make much of a difference (even if you somehow manage to reach Ti 4600 speeds, it would still only give you just a 3 - 4 FPS boost, if you're lucky). Splinter Cell struggles (by modern standards) even on an FX 5950 Ultra.
However, one thing I've noticed when overclocking the Ti 4200, is that somewhere between Ti 4400 and 4600 speeds, most Win 98 games will run at 60+ FPS at 1600 x 1200 x 32, while at Ti 4200 speeds some games fall below the magic 60 FPS mark (NFS Porsche is such an example). Even 1920 x 1440 x 32 will be possible with certain games. 😀

I usually overclock most retro video cards and CPUs (except for very rare/expensive hardware), as long as voltage increases are minimal (in the case of CPUs), and heat is not an issue. So, for example, I would never overclock a Radeon 9700/9800 PRO, those things run way too HOT, even at default speeds! Having followed these simple rules, I haven't had a single failure due to overclocking so far.
Funnily enough, I don't overclock modern hardware... I really don't see the point. Everything is already much faster than I need it to be. 😀
In fact, my modern video card (RTX 2060) is a bit underclocked and undervolted (need to keep this baby alive, since I'm not willing to pay these crazy GPU prices that we have nowadays).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 25 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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bloodem wrote on 2022-05-06, 06:47:

However, one thing I've noticed when overclocking the Ti 4200, is that somewhere between Ti 4400 and 4600 speeds, most Win 98 games will run at 60+ FPS at 1600 x 1200 x 32, while at Ti 4200 speeds some games fall below the magic 60 FPS mark (NFS Porsche is such an example). Even 1920 x 1440 x 32 will be possible with certain games.

Good to know! The monitor that's currently hooked up to this system tops out at 1280x1024, but that might change at some point in the future.

I suppose overclocking could also provide some gains when Anisotropic Filtering is at 8x. Usually, that shaves off around 10-15% from the normal FPS score, depending on the game and resolution.

It would also be beneficial for Anti Aliasing, but I rarely turn that on here. I guess my main use case for AA are older Win9x games that only run at a fixed resolution like 640x480. But even then, I usually just set it to 2x on this card.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 26 of 142, by bloodem

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-06, 08:52:

I suppose overclocking could also provide some gains when Anisotropic Filtering is at 8x. Usually, that shaves off around 10-15% from the normal FPS score, depending on the game and resolution.

It would also be beneficial for Anti Aliasing, but I rarely turn that on here. I guess my main use case for AA are older Win9x games that only run at a fixed resolution like 640x480. But even then, I usually just set it to 2x on this card.

Yeah, both anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing heavily use memory bandwidth (especially the latter), so the biggest gains would probably be seen from increasing the memory clock.
Truthfully, I never use (force) them in retro games, unless the game specifically offers such an option in its settings. Especially when it comes to anti-aliasing, I find that its quality with these retro cards is usually not that great (+ very high resolutions already look very good without the need of anti-aliasing).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 27 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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bloodem wrote on 2022-05-06, 11:00:

Especially when it comes to anti-aliasing, I find that its quality with these retro cards is usually not that great (+ very high resolutions already look very good without the need of anti-aliasing).

I agree with this. If I'm playing a game at 1280x1024 or higher, I find that Anti Aliasing sometimes does more harm than good i.e. it blurs everything unnecessarily. This does depend a bit on the game as well.

OTOH, Anisotropic Filtering provides a noticeable benefit even in high resolutions, incurs a (usually) moderate performance penalty and can often be forced on older games through the drivers without any issues. Here's a screenshot from Quake 2 with AF turned off vs. AF 8x.

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At this distance, the markings at the top of the crates (on the lid) are a blurry mess with AF Off, but with AF 8x they are properly displayed. The floor further back and the water patch also show more details with AF 8x, but I'm not sure how well that can be seen due to JPEG compression.

That said, I did notice that the performance impact of AF 8x increases significantly with higher resolutions, at least on this GeForce4 Ti4200. Sometimes, it can even halve the FPS score at 1280x1024. But as always, it depends on the game.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 28 of 142, by bloodem

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-06, 13:00:

OTOH, Anisotropic Filtering provides a noticeable benefit even in high resolutions, incurs a (usually) moderate performance penalty and can often be forced on older games through the drivers without any issues. Here's a screenshot from Quake 2 with AF turned off vs. AF 8x.

At this distance, the markings at the top of the crates (on the lid) are a blurry mess with AF Off, but with AF 8x they are properly displayed. The floor further back and the water patch also show more details with AF 8x, but I'm not sure how well that can be seen due to JPEG compression.

Yes, I know. Anisotropic filtering is definitely worth enabling on more powerful hardware, though I still don't typically do it if the game itself doesn't offer this option (just lazy, I guess 😁 ).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 29 of 142, by mrzmaster

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Sweet build and nice work!

I noticed that the Audigy appears to have an rear bracket connected to it in addition to the front panel. Is this an additional optical / S/PDIF? I was under the impression that once the front panel is connected to the Audigy, that ribbon cable uses up the only available digital pin connections on the card.

I’m interested because I’ve got an Audigy 2 ZS with the front panel but it would be very nice to have a rear bracket with digital connections as well.

Reply 30 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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mrzmaster wrote on 2022-05-07, 00:07:

Sweet build and nice work!

Thanks! 😀

I noticed that the Audigy appears to have an rear bracket connected to it in addition to the front panel. Is this an additional optical / S/PDIF?

Do you mean directly below the card? That's just the bracket for the joystick port.

I was under the impression that once the front panel is connected to the Audigy, that ribbon cable uses up the only available digital pin connections on the card.

I'm not sure how this works on Audigy cards, but the SBLive had some extra connectors on its LiveDrive front panel where you could plug in the digital I/O card, as well as the digital DIN connector bracket. Here's a pic showcasing this:

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I don't have a digital I/O card though, so I'm just going by what's written in the manual.

I’m interested because I’ve got an Audigy 2 ZS with the front panel but it would be very nice to have a rear bracket with digital connections as well.

If you only need SPDIF out from the back of the card, you can get that by plugging an RCA to 3.5 mm mono adapter into the digital out jack (orange colored). I use one of those on my SBLive as shown here.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 31 of 142, by SScorpio

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-07, 01:38:

I'm not sure how this works on Audigy cards, but the SBLive had some extra connectors on its LiveDrive front panel where you could plug in the digital I/O card, as well as the digital DIN connector bracket. Here's a pic showcasing this:

LiveDrive.jpg

I don't have a digital I/O card though, so I'm just going by what's written in the manual.

I also don't have the digital I/O card but I can confirm those pins on the LiveDrive do work, though I believe this is some limitation on what they can take in terms of signal.

I have a Live Drive that came with an SB Live 5.1. When I used the SB Live I had a CD drive's digital audio directly to the card's digital CD in header, and I had the SPDIF out from a MX-300 Aureal 2 into the Live Drive's pins. I then upgraded to an Audigy 1 which uses the same Live Drive with the exception that the Audigy's drive also had a front firewire port that connected with a separate cable. When I switched the MX-300 no longer worked, but I tried piping it to the Audigy's digital CD in and that worked, and the CD's digital out to the Live Drive's pins also worked.

What I can't recall is if using the digital I/O pins requires you to disable the Live Drive's front digital I/O. There are some undocumented jumpers I had to mess with after using a multi-meter to detect what ran to what.

Reply 32 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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I played around with cable management a bit and updated the case interior picture in the first post.

Really liking these rounded floppy and IDE cables. I'm thinking of getting some more for my other retro rigs, since I don't appreciate how standard ribbon cables restrict the airflow inside the case.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 33 of 142, by bloodem

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-10, 11:22:

I played around with cable management a bit and updated the case interior picture in the first post.

Really liking these rounded floppy and IDE cables. I'm thinking of getting some more for my other retro rigs, since I don't appreciate how standard ribbon cables restrict the airflow inside the case.

Really like the look, congrats! I also have some blue rounded IDE and floppy cables, but they only look good in this type of late/modern build. I would definitely not want to use them with an Athlon/Pentium 3 build or earlier.
For Pentium 3 type builds (and earlier) I like what some members of this forum did with the wire management, it almost looks like art to me. 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 34 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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bloodem wrote on 2022-05-10, 13:52:

For Pentium 3 type builds (and earlier) I like what some members of this forum did with the wire management, it almost looks like art to me. 😀

I'm in awe at how he was able do it so elegantly. 😀

Sadly, my meager cable management skills are nowhere near that level. But I started making an effort to at least not obstruct the case airflow.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 35 of 142, by H3nrik V!

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-10, 11:22:

I played around with cable management a bit and updated the case interior picture in the first post.

Really liking these rounded floppy and IDE cables. I'm thinking of getting some more for my other retro rigs, since I don't appreciate how standard ribbon cables restrict the airflow inside the case.

Looks good, but would've been nice, if you'd left the original image so we could spot the difference 😉

Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀

Reply 36 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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H3nrik V! wrote on 2022-05-11, 06:59:

Looks good, but would've been nice, if you'd left the original image so we could spot the difference 😉

It was... not pretty. 😁

Basically, I had all the unused PSU cables bunched together and zip tied to the top of the case. Now, they are (more or less) neatly tucked away and firmly secured to prevent any motion in case the system gets moved.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 37 of 142, by Tetrium

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-04-20, 10:25:
System specs […]
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System specs

  • Athlon 64 3000+ (NewCastle core)
  • Asus K8V-MX (VIA K8M800 Socket754)
  • 2GB Kingston DDR400
  • Gainward GeForce4 Ti4200
  • Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum (SB0090 + SB0010)
  • Kingston 120GB SSD (Windows 98SE)
  • SanDisk 240GB SSD (Windows XP + SP3)
  • Lite-On 16x DVD-ROM
  • Sony 3.5" floppy drive
  • Seasonic S12 III 650W PSU
  • Chieftec tower case
  • LG Flatron L1753HR 17" LCD monitor (1280x1024 native resolution)
  • Logitech X-530 Surround Sound Speakers (5.1 system)

Introduction

I had a spare Socket754 motherboard left over from when I purchased a lot of random components. After watching some of Phil's videos, I wanted to see if I could use this board to make a cheap, powerful and fairly quiet Win98 build. For this purpose, it was imperative to avoid mechanical hard drives, old PSUs, noisy CPU/GPU/chipset fans and so on. In the end, I think I mostly succeeded and I'm quite pleased with the end result.

CPU

This Athlon 64 3000+ CPU is pretty nice for Win9x gaming. It may not be the fastest one out there, but it's what I had on hand. Cooling is handled by Deepcool Ice Edge Mini FS V2.0 which keeps temperatures below 50C even under full load. This cooler is definitively quieter than period correct Athlon 64 cooling solutions, and it's more efficient as well.

Motherboard

While building this system, I initially encountered an obscure problem with this motherboard. For some reason, GPU performance under Win98 was only half of what I was getting under WinXP. With the kind help of some folks here, I was able to narrow down the issue to the BIOS. It seems that only the oldest BIOS for this motherboard (v0112) works properly under Win98, so that's the version which I ended up flashing. On the upside, this board uses the VT8237R Plus southbridge. The "plus" is the important bit here, as that revision appears to have fixed an incompatibility with SATA3 drives which the original release suffered from. I did have to set the SATA controller to RAID mode in order for Win98 to boot from it, but that appears to be somewhat common with SATA implementations from that time.

Graphics card

This Gainward GeForce4 Ti4200 is a fairly decent GPU for Win9x gaming. It allows me to run the vast majority of games in 1280x1024 at 60+ FPS, as long as Anti Aliasing is kept to a minimum or turned off entirely. Anisotropic Filtering is best used sparingly, as it also decreases performance in more demanding games, especially at higher resolutions. Under Win98, I'm using the 40.72 driver since that version appears to work best on this particular system. And while I could use even older drivers, they lack support for SSE2 instructions (which my CPU has), and that would result in slightly lower performance (I tested it). Lastly, since the stock fan on this GPU was in pretty bad shape, I replaced it with an aftermarket solution which now works great.

Sound Card

The Audigy1 works well as a Win98 sound card. It has excellent EAX capabilities, fairly clean output and can use VxD drivers which are more compatible with older titles. I've hooked it up to my Logitech X-530 5.1 speaker system, and surround sound works properly in Win9x games which support it (e.g. in Unreal Tournament, Thief 2 and Deus Ex). Under Win98, I'm using the Audigy2 ZS drivers as per this guide of mine. For WinXP, I simply install DanielK's Audigy support pack. The LiveDrive front panel is great since it allows me to easily output SPDIF digital audio (either via RCA or optical) which allows for pristine gameplay audio recordings. I also like the dedicated headphone jack which has a physical volume knob beside it. Lastly, it's very important to mute any unused inputs on this card (e.g. Microphone, TAD, etc.) in order to minimize noise.

Operating Systems

On this machine, I use two separate drives with two operating systems and select which one I want to run from the BIOS boot menu. The two systems are fully independent, so if I need to reinstall Win98 for some reason, WinXP will be completely unaffected. Of course, Win98 is my primary operating system on this rig, with WinXP being mostly used for maintenance purposes. For the Win98 installation to succeed with 2GB RAM, I had to temporarily use HimemX in order to reduce the available memory to 512 MB. Once the installation completed, I ran MSCONFIG and limited the memory which Win98 can access to 512 MB under the "Advanced" tab. After that, I removed HimemX since it was no longer needed.

Windows XP (with SP3) is my other operating system and I mostly use it for maintenance purposes on this rig. However, it's also useful for the few specific games which have problems on newer hardware, such as Gothic 1 and Splinter Cell. Obviously, there are unofficial fixes for those games which take care of most of the issues. But I prefer to play my games stock, which is why it's nice to have a system that's capable of it.

Conclusion

While I'm very happy with this build, it was a bit of a hassle to get everything to work together nicely. I think it was worth it though, as you'll see from the benchmarks below. It's a cheap, quiet and reasonably fast system which covers most of my Win9x gaming needs.

Case.jpg Case_Open.jpg
Case_Interior.jpg

This is a nice build 🙂
I like the s754 and s939 platforms though I used WinXP on them exclusively, but this platform lends itself to some effective and flexible Win9x builds as well 😀
I'm definitely liking your silent approach and I remember reading about this HSF, but unfortunately for me it was already sold out here in the Dutch webshops so I got some different HSFs instead.
You could opt to install a silent 12cm fan in there, though I'm unsure how effective it would be as apparently your rig runs stable with good temps already and adding extra fans would at some point mostly just add to the noise. I reckon it would help cool down the insides during heavy gaming though so not all heated up air would need to be moved by the PSU (this PSU should be an excellent pick for this rig, obviously).
If you want to make the insides of this system even cooler, you could opt to get a A64 with a Venice core instead of Newcastle which is (depending on the exact model) a little bit faster but probably a lot cooler since it's basically a Newcastle die-shrink (from 0.13µm to 0.09µm). Not really necessary since A64 is relatively easy to keep cool and quiet anyway 😜
I'm something of a Venice fan btw (both the cores and the city btw 🤣 despite how touristic Venice really is). If you're feeling really adventurous you could even try out a Turion build 😜 (Btw, I don't think I've actually seen a Turion build here on Vogons?)
I definitely like these older Chieftec cases. Always seem to be rock-solid 👍

Your system looks lean and effective and you definitely gave your sound setup more attention than I did with my A64 rigs (iirc I cheaped out and went all-onboard 🤣), I like it 🙂

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 38 of 142, by Joseph_Joestar

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-15, 08:36:

This is a nice build 🙂
I like the s754 and s939 platforms though I used WinXP on them exclusively, but this platform lends itself to some effective and flexible Win9x builds as well 😀

Cheers! I've come to appreciate Socket 754 a lot more after building this system, despite some of its quirks.

You could opt to install a silent 12cm fan in there, though I'm unsure how effective it would be as apparently your rig runs stable with good temps already and adding extra fans would at some point mostly just add to the noise.

I was thinking of adding a BeQuiet! Silent Wings 3 120mm fan to the rear of the case, but the system is already "cool and quiet" as AMD puts it. We'll see how it holds up during the hot summer months.

If you want to make the insides of this system even cooler, you could opt to get a A64 with a Venice core instead of Newcastle which is (depending on the exact model) a little bit faster but probably a lot cooler since it's basically a Newcastle die-shrink (from 0.13µm to 0.09µm). Not really necessary since A64 is relatively easy to keep cool and quiet anyway 😜

Yup, a Venice CPU would run cooler and use less power. However, I'm not sure if the oldest BIOS for this motherboard supports it. And, as mentioned before, I have to stay with that BIOS version if I want proper GPU performance under Win98.

Your system looks lean and effective and you definitely gave your sound setup more attention than I did with my A64 rigs (iirc I cheaped out and went all-onboard 🤣), I like it 🙂

Thanks! The one thing I really like about the audio setup is that it's completely digital until it reaches the speakers. All analog inputs on the card are unused and remain permanently muted. The resulting sound is crisp and clear.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 39 of 142, by Tetrium

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-15, 09:09:
Cheers! I've come to appreciate Socket 754 a lot more after building this system, despite some of its quirks. […]
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Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-15, 08:36:

This is a nice build 🙂
I like the s754 and s939 platforms though I used WinXP on them exclusively, but this platform lends itself to some effective and flexible Win9x builds as well 😀

Cheers! I've come to appreciate Socket 754 a lot more after building this system, despite some of its quirks.

You could opt to install a silent 12cm fan in there, though I'm unsure how effective it would be as apparently your rig runs stable with good temps already and adding extra fans would at some point mostly just add to the noise.

I was thinking of adding a BeQuiet! Silent Wings 3 120mm fan to the rear of the case, but the system is already "cool and quiet" as AMD puts it. We'll see how it holds up during the hot summer months.

If you want to make the insides of this system even cooler, you could opt to get a A64 with a Venice core instead of Newcastle which is (depending on the exact model) a little bit faster but probably a lot cooler since it's basically a Newcastle die-shrink (from 0.13µm to 0.09µm). Not really necessary since A64 is relatively easy to keep cool and quiet anyway 😜

Yup, a Venice CPU would run cooler and use less power. However, I'm not sure if the oldest BIOS for this motherboard supports it. And, as mentioned before, I have to stay with that BIOS version if I want proper GPU performance under Win98.

Your system looks lean and effective and you definitely gave your sound setup more attention than I did with my A64 rigs (iirc I cheaped out and went all-onboard 🤣), I like it 🙂

Thanks! The one thing I really like about the audio setup is that it's completely digital until it reaches the speakers. All analog inputs on the card are unused and remain permanently muted. The resulting sound is crisp and clear.

A64 has definitely earned a permanent spot in my own appreciation corner, regardless of s754 or s939 😀
Both AGP and PCI-e have something going for them, be it either the most recent AGP platform (apart for the always-has-been-hard-to-find-AGP-core2-capable motherboards which is clearly faster than A64) in a convenient and flexible package and good cooling options and the PCI-e ones are something like how the PCI 486 boards were the oldest PCI boards available.

Ah yes, woops, I had forgotten about the BIOS bug. I'd guess the BIOS patch notes would make mention of any added CPU support in the newer BIOS files?
And if you don't already have one and can get a Venice for cheap, I'd definitely do that. I got some 3200+ Venice CPUs for cheap back in the day just so I know I have a small stash available just in case I ever need them 🙂

If you want a fan that makes an exceptionally huge amount of noise and doesn't keep only the insides cool but also literally anything behind the PC case then I'd recommend you get a Scythe Ultra Kaze 😜 It's so cool, it will blow you away! xD
That fan is so obnoxiously loud, it would make you want to throw your rig out of a window 🤣! That fan is a whole meme by itself xD

But anyway, on a more serious note, I do like the silent 12cm fans for systems like yours. Only issue I have with them is that they seem to not always work because the slow rotation makes some boards think the fan is not working so usually I end up testing several fans until I find one that matches well with the rig and I am happy with.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!