MT-32 Write Request

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MT-32 Write Request

Postby anonyme-x22 » 2019-11-21 @ 02:15

Hi,

Does someone tried this sysex message ? (F0 41 10 16 12 40 x x x x checksum f7)
I can edit the ram via the patch or timbre memory, but the write request don't save the temporary area in patch or timbre ?

Thanks in advance,
Have a good day,
Rgds,
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby Cloudschatze » 2019-11-21 @ 22:03

I've tested against a v1.07 MT-32, and the Write Request functionality appears to be either broken/vestigial, or erroneously documented.
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby anonyme-x22 » 2019-11-21 @ 22:28

Hi,

That's the same conclusion i'm into, but i wasn't sure because i have a rev 0 + unknown os version, so perhaps it could be a bug due to older os version.

But i think it's more a documentation error than broken/vestigial functionality because it's an essential one:

The mt32 patch temporary area reset the timbre temporary area each time you change a parameter.
It's impossible to work like this and the temporary area are worthless. Roland would for sure correct a bug like this.

I've done a trick on cubase to first send the patch paremeters then the partial parameter, that's work on device recall, but without the save functionality is worthless for the unit as you can't save the timbre and patch into memory to make bank.

The last ressort is to use the memory instead of the temporary area, but this limit 1 timbre and patch / part and it's a nightmare to work with specialy on cubase where device making is already a nigthmare... but not on a bcr2000!

Need also to verify that the request mode is good, because the request return something and the documentation request mode is set to send data without handshake (12), perhaps the request should be send in a handshake request mode (40) or (42).

Hope someone managed to work with this request.

Have a good day,
Rgds,
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby Cloudschatze » 2019-11-22 @ 03:23

anonyme-x22 wrote:The mt32 patch temporary area reset the timbre temporary area each time you change a parameter.

I'm not entirely clear on what it is you're trying to do, but focusing on just this issue for a minute, it sounds like you might be including the parameters used to select a timbre as part of your edits to a particular Patch Temporary Area? If so, the stated behavior is expected - you're calling up the "stored" version of a timbre, overwriting the Timbre Temporary Area for that Part.

If that's not the case, can you provide a SysEx example of the edits that you are trying to make that result in the stated behavior?
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby anonyme-x22 » 2019-11-22 @ 11:54

Hi,

It's simple:
Select timbre I - 0 via sysex (F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 00 02 7B F7 / F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 01 00 7C F7)
Adjust timbre name 1 (F0 41 10 16 12 04 00 00 20 5C F7)
Adjust patch pitch (F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 02 18 63 F7)

You loose the timbre name, and everything related to the timbre temporary area.

What i need is :
Select timbre I - 0 via sysex (F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 00 02 7B F7 / F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 01 00 7C F7)
Adjust timbre name 1 (F0 41 10 16 12 04 00 00 20 5C F7)
Writing timbre temporary area into I - 0 (F0 41 10 16 12 40 00 00 00 00 F7) The request which don't work.
Adjust patch pitch (F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 02 18 63 F7)

The last ressort is to use the memory instead of temporary area:
Select timbre I - 0 via sysex (F0 41 10 16 12 05 00 00 02 x F7 / F0 41 10 16 12 05 00 01 00 x F7)
Adjust timbre name 1 (F0 41 10 16 12 08 00 00 20 x F7)
Adjust patch pitch (F0 41 10 16 12 05 00 02 18 x F7)

That work but it's limited to timbre 0 patch 0 in this case. That's why it's best to use the temporary area you can write it (normally) into the memory you want.

Have a good day,
Rgds,
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby Cloudschatze » 2019-11-22 @ 20:02

I see what you're saying. It looks like unrelated individual parameter changes to the Patch Temporary Areas do indeed cause the associated Timbre Temporary Areas to be re-loaded. I'll check against a v2.07 MT-32 later to see if it behaves similarly.

Since changing the Patch Temporary Areas results in the issue, why not alter that data first, and the temporary timbre data afterward?

E.g.:

F0 41 10 16 12 03 00 00 02 00 18 63 F7 - Part 1: Timbre=i01, Key Shift=0
F0 41 10 16 12 04 00 00 20 5C F7 - Part 1: Clear first character of Timbre name
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby anonyme-x22 » 2019-11-22 @ 23:16

Hi,

It's what i've done in cubase for reloading the temporaries area. but it's unusable in realtime edit.
As soon as i change the reverb setting on the part, i need to save the preset in cubase then reload it to get back the reverb + the the modified timbre.

First you create a sound, after you tweak the sound (timbre then patch).

This request should works, it's the same working concept for all the roland synthetizer.
I looked into the d110 manual and it's the same request. i haven't the rev 0 manual to verify, but it should be the same for sure due to sysex compatibility between rev 0 and rev 1.

It's odd that nobody tried to use this request. I assume that the editors write directly the timbre and patch settings into the memory area.
It's frustrating, all the work done in cubase is just good for trash :angry:
Also it's shame that roland don't support the synthetizer anymore. :blah:

Have a good day,
Rgds,
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby Cloudschatze » 2019-11-23 @ 03:11

Just got through testing the 2.07 MT-32 (also applicable to the CM/LAPC-variants), and in contrast to the behavior of the 1.xx MT-32 units:

  • Parameter edits to the Patch Temporary Areas do *not* cause the corresponding Timbre Temporary Area data to get re-loaded.
  • The Write Request functionality actually works.

anonyme-x22 wrote:i haven't the rev 0 manual to verify, but it should be the same for sure due to sysex compatibility between rev 0 and rev 1.

I should have checked this sooner as well (and probably did in another life), but sure enough, the MIDI implementation for the v1.xx MT-32 units does not even list Write Request as an option. So, that explains that. :)
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Re: MT-32 Write Request

Postby anonyme-x22 » 2019-11-23 @ 17:56

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your informations.
Time to look for a rev 2...

Rgds,
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