The Windows MIDI option in ScummVM is a feature of more recent versions. I can't speak with 100% certainty on this, but I believe it is a translation of the original AdLib FM synthesis to MIDI software synth. Many of the older games that ScummVM supports have at least AdLib music, and since AdLib music was essentially patch (instrument data) and event (note and performance data) based, such translation gives reasonably good results, even if it's not particularly "true to the way it was". At any rate, DOSBox does not have such an option at present.

Games that have support for General MIDI (Day of the Tentacle, for example) will have very nice sounding music in DOSBox if you have a SoundFont hardware synth option with your soundcard. There is also an unofficial CVS build of DOSBox with MT-32 emulation that is pretty much the same as that found in ScummVM, if the particular game supports it.

Hmmm..... from what I know of AdLib FM synthesis (and I could be wrong), even though it is patch- and event-based, the generated music data is not automatically translatable into MIDI, mostly due to the inherent incompatibility of the events/commands that the two methods handle (due to their different natures), and the fact that AdLib instrument patches are arbitrarily defined (making it necessary to define a specific General MIDI instrument map for each AdLib music sequence beforehand).

Then again, we're talking about ScummVM, which was built to run a very specific set of games, so I wouldn't be surprised if they've hard-coded some very game-specific logic to do such an AdLib-to-MIDI remapping. But to make such a thing work in DOSBox you'd need a "universal" (non-game-specific) solution, and due to the above limitations this hardly seems possible... though I'd be happy to be proven wrong of course 😉

To be sure it's not a simple translation. I believe they are taking the OPL FM instrument data and creating waveform instrument data (samples) out of it, either beforehand or on-the-fly, to use in a software synth that works with any soundcard. Not only is this a generic approach as a substitute for emulated chip synthesis, but it also has the flexibility of a sofware synth to enhance or "enrich" the sound.

If you haven't already, you should try out ScummVM with the old Sierra AGI games that are now supported. Sierra did some pretty impressive music through a PC speaker back in the day, but it had it's limits. ScummVM has added considerable enhancement to that music; I can actually hear vibrato in some of the instruments... I suspect they are using their waveform-based software synth in this case as well.

I don't get this thread....

SCUMMVM supports limited Adlib FM synth and MT32 via emulation and full blown MT32 and General MIDI playback via MIDI hardware output. DOSBox is much the same (especially CVS builds with Munt built in). Hardware output to proper synths sounds the same in either, regardless of platform.

The music driver options in ScummVM 0.10.0 are as follows:

No music
Windows MIDI
MT-32
Adlib
PC Speaker
IBM PCjr
FM Towns

Have you tried the Windows MIDI option? That is what this thread is about.

dh4rm4 wrote:

I don't get this thread....

SCUMMVM supports limited Adlib FM synth and MT32 via emulation and full blown MT32 and General MIDI playback via MIDI hardware output. DOSBox is much the same (especially CVS builds with Munt built in). Hardware output to proper synths sounds the same in either, regardless of platform.

I second that. There isn't much point in this thread. In order to get true adlib support in SCUMMVM you select "Adlib" output in the specific game configuration. If you want real mt-32 midi you select "true mt-32" and plug in a real mt-32. And there is this munt emulator (like the dosbox cvs builds) that's built in like dh4rm4 said. To sum up it SCUMMVM handles midi and adlib sound the same way DOSBox handles it. You select midi, you get midi, you select adlib, you get adlib.

ScummVM has MT-32 pass-thru, munt-based MT-32 emulation, and also emulates an MT-32 through its software synth (Windows MIDI) option - no ROMs from an MT-32 required. If you find this thread pointless, it's because you've missed the point about this software synth option.

Anyway, to get this thread back on track, if the original poster will explain which game and what soundcard is being used, I'm sure someone can suggest a way to make it sound better with DOSBox.

No ripsaw, don't confuse the issue. SCUMMVM's MT32 emulation isn't just some 'software synth' which can somehow automagically also do Adlib FM, it's Munt - an emulator made by Canadacow and others which is discussed about here on VOGONS quite extensively. The fact that SCUMMVM also supports remapping of MT32 and other soundtracks out to Windows and other OS MIDI layers (SCUMMVM being multiplatform, just like DOSBox) doesn't make it sound 'better' than DOSBox for certain games, in point of fact it's precisely the software synth as hosted by the OS that's responsible for the final sound quality. Throwing comments about soundfounts about only muddys the waters even further as their sound quality remains almost totally subjective.

To get the best (read : most AUTHENTIC) MT32 soundtrack from an MT32 supported game you must use a real MT32 synth. Even a more expensive LA Synthesiser (D30 etc) won't give you a 'better' soundtrack as some of the instruments and patches vary enough from a real MT32 that they sound 'wrong' (read : not authentic). This was as true back in the day with MT32 emulated patch banks like the GUS's MEGAEM etc as it is for MUNT and remapped MT32 to GM synth banks.

Well, I'm at work right now but wanted to let you guys know I was still paying attention. Thank you for the replies. I'll try a CVS build at home when I get a chance.

The sound card I'm working with is either a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 or something very close to that. I've been testing this with some of the early 90's scumm games. I've also been testing some with the Sierra AGI releases but I believe those use the PC speaker under DOSBox which I think is an entirely different issue. I''ll try one of the CVS builds with MT32 support (should ykhwong's by okay?) tonight and see if there is any difference.

donarumo:
Some of the early LucasArts games that featured MIDI were for the MT-32/LAPC-1 and did not support General MIDI, so the MT-32 emulation in the CVS builds of DOSBox is probably what you're looking for; however you will need ROM images from an MT-32 to make it work, if you don't already have them, but it's the same deal with the MT-32 emulation in ScummVM.

dh4rm4:
If you get a chance, please try something: fire up Fate of Atlantis (which only supported MT-32 for MIDI) in ScummVM 0.10.0 using the Windows MIDI audio driver option. That is not the munt emulation of the MT-32, that is something more along the lines of Timidity using MT-32 patches. Furthermore, no ROM images from an MT-32 are required to achieve that level of support.

Okay, so I played with my CD version of Fate of Atlantis. I tried a CVS build of DOSBox with MT-32 turned on and the midi sounded no different. I then tried running ScummVM with MT-32 for the sound option and got an error message about missing a rom file. This leads me to believe the DOSBox trial probably defaulted back to the default setting when it couldn't find the same rom file and that's why it sounded the same.

However, in my tests of ScummVM it is only the Windows Midi option that sounds this good. All the other options sound like 1990's midi music and like I remember the game sounding really. So I think the good sound I'm getting now is simply a function of the midi built into Windows Vista.

Does it make sense that the DOSBox Win32 midi option would not tap into these sounds I'm hearing when using the Windows Midi option in ScummVM? If so, I guess that begs the question then, is there any way a version of DOSBox can be written that taps into the more modern midi sound available in Windows now?

Well, thanks for your help. I'm fine and happy playing my old DOS games with "old" sounding midi music. I mean, it's more authentic anyway and besides, if it wasn't for DOSBox, I wouldn't be able to play a lot of these games at all!

Type mixer /listmidi in dosbox, you will find that windows midi can have several different devices. You can use the config= option to specify a desired device.

What is the default device when config= is blank?

your systems default device.

ripsaw8080 wrote:

If you get a chance, please try something: fire up Fate of Atlantis (which only supported MT-32 for MIDI) in ScummVM 0.10.0 using the Windows MIDI audio driver option. That is not the munt emulation of the MT-32, that is something more along the lines of Timidity using MT-32 patches. Furthermore, no ROM images from an MT-32 are required to achieve that level of support.

So I fired it it finally and it sounded just as crap as I expected it would. That is, just as crap as any MT32 to GM conversion can sound. Sorry dude, but I fail to see your reference to Timidity (a GF1-in-application emulator) using MT-32 patches, as what your talking abt in SCUMMVM when using the Windows MIDI driver is just GM patch redirection. The MT32 approach is very different indeed and nothing really emulates it successfully so far, Munt included.

It certainly isn't the same as a real MT-32 (I have one), but I wouldn't say it sounds like crap, at least not with my soundcard. But I think you are right that some kind of GM translation is going on. The GM MIDI synth on my Audigy sounds a heck of a lot better than the Microsoft software GM synth built into WinXP, for example, so the quality of GM MIDI available in Windows makes a big difference, even if it isn't particularly authentic or true to the sound of a real MT-32.

I also think that because ScummVM is only supporting a very specific set of games, that it may also have GM-remixed versions of MIDI tunes built-in, at least in some cases. The reason I say this is because of what I noticed with Monkey Island I: back in the day you had to apply a patch to the floppy version to get Roland MIDI music, which basically added a file with the MIDI data in it; however ScummVM is able to play MIDI music in MI1 even when that file is absent.