VOGONS


First post, by mercy

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I acquired the v1.0? version of the game.
Compared to the very slow GOG version there are significant improvements.

I'm running it on the GOG installation, just for convenience's sake, but using the latest official DOSBox. When I want to run GBC, I have to copy back all the GOG dosbox-conf files, otherwise my Tandy-centered conf files don't work at all with GBC. The last time I used GBC was to quickly configure the outlook of my characters, but that was just out of laziness as this version does it pretty fast as well!

Changes:
1. POOL.CFG contents: (So it sits nicely on the GOG version)

E
T
C:\POOLRAD\
C:\POOLRAD\SAVE\
N

Note: If you configure a Tandy / pcjr machine in the CONF, then as per the Quick Reference Card.pdf you have to change the first letter "E" = EGA to "T" = Tandy. I tested it with the GOG version and it works. I haven't tested this super-amazing version with a Tandy / pcjr machine CONF setup, because it looks also amazing in "E" = EGA , but I'll test it later, as I'm curious as well. 😁

The Poolrad folder has a SAVE folder, where this superfast, fully Tandy-supporting version saves all characters + savegames, completely independent of any "cloud_saves"..

2. Modded GOG dosbox_por.conf
fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=openglnb
windowresolution=1024x768
output=Overlay
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper-0.74-2.map
usescancodes=true

..
language=
machine=svga_s3 #this can be Tandy or pcjr
captures=capture
memsize=16
..

pcspeaker=false
pcrate=44100
tandy=on
tandyrate=44100
disney=false

..
gus=false
..
sbtype=none

3. Removed protection
No more Codewheel needed..
I removed the Codewheel protection, so now it accepts these six characters: ------

Tandy music and ingame sound effects sound essentially like the SoundBlaster Pro. Except the POR developers didn't include digitized death screams - like on Amiga - in the DOS version of this game for unknown reasons... of which the Tandy is very much capable of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZDqdRHvzp0
, like in International Karate or Bruce Lee.. So instead there is a synthesizer-crafted, goofy dying Tandy sound. 😁

Highlights:
1. It plays Tandy music, which is nice and clean at 44100Hz.
2. I'll have to test it more, but its like if it plays a short tune at the beginning of some battles
3. Sound effects are nice and clean, especially the spells. Sleep - sounds amazing! + as it hits many enemies its super fast in combat, which is glorious to watch. And there are no crackles, no lags, the fast sound effects play like a dream!
4. There is a longer death sound, which might or might not annoy people. I find it okay
5. Game speed is lightning fast, compared to the GOG version with its agonizingly slow and laggy, ugly Tandy emulation
6. The character selection menus and item menus in shops flow fluidly like a dream. This is especially important for loot hoarders and also casting spells to heal the party up is faster.
7. What I especially like is the moving around in the cities is super fast and the Tandy emulation gloriously keeps pace! Its like watching a sped-up movie in comparison to the GOG version. This allows a certain "pro-flight dynamics" to take place in dungeons and in cities: I feel I became the old wild animal, quickly running through dungeons, like in the old C-64 times!
8. The "Bump-Into-Wall" sound is also nicer here.
9. Tandy sounds are cleaner, different: sound effects are correctly played even at super-high-speed dungeon runs, no crackles at all. This gives the feeling of total control ingame. Much like flying.. If you play at the third of cycles compared to slow and laggy GOG version, you can have nice, strong and fast combat, and STILL see the battle-log hit text nicely!

I'll make some screenshots, because it appears they changed the treasure chest screen, I'll have to test this, though..

All in all this is a magnificent improvement - compared to playing with the ugly PC Speaker -, exactly what I was looking for!

10. I also like that there is zero save time, when removing characters or saving the game. Shop "sell item"-delay is also barely noticeable here.

11. While I played the GOG version with the speed set to 58000 cycles (this is just for my PC) and of course I could only walk or "run" with an almost satisfying, but still slow speed in the cities with the limited Tandy sound emulation of the GOG version.
In comparison to that, in this amazing old version I had to take down the speed to 16000 cycles, because everything was so fast.
For some dialogues, like the dirty stables, I had to dial down the speed to 4000 to be able to read, the first sentence, because that one doesn't pause... and in comes the next sentence..

But these are minor inconveniences compared to the amazing advantages that this beautiful, refreshing fast version offers!

I removed the Codewheel protection, so now it accepts ------

. . .

If I find any difference in art, I'll try to replace some graphics files with the ones from the GOG version.

. . .

Also item duplication works flawlessly with this one, as it should.. like on the C-64 with the floppy disk-swaps. I couldn't do it with the GOG version for some reason..

- - -

It's quite remarkable that compared to the new games, like Wasteland 3 and Urtuk the desolation, etc.. this simple, old game draws me in really fast and feels like a breeze: breathing a sigh of relief.. probably because of the old memories were imprinted strongly during my childhood.

(Since we all own the GOG version, just throw me a PM, if you want it.)

Last edited by mercy on 2022-03-09, 16:56. Edited 3 times in total.

SSI Gold Box-style game, we are working on

Reply 1 of 6, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
mercy wrote on 2022-03-09, 16:26:
I acquired the v1.0? version of the game. Compared to the very slow GOG version there are significant improvements. […]
Show full quote

I acquired the v1.0? version of the game.
Compared to the very slow GOG version there are significant improvements.

I'm running it on the GOG installation, just for convenience's sake, but using the latest official DOSBox. When I want to run GBC, I have to copy back all the GOG dosbox-conf files, otherwise my Tandy-centered conf files don't work at all with GBC. The last time I used GBC was to quickly configure the outlook of my characters, but that was just out of laziness as this version does it pretty fast as well!

Changes:
1. POOL.CFG contents: (So it sits nicely on the GOG version)

E
T
C:\POOLRAD\
C:\POOLRAD\SAVE\
N

The Poolrad folder has a SAVE folder, where this superfast, fully Tandy-supporting version saves all characters + savegames, completely independent of any "cloud_saves"..

2. Modded GOG dosbox_por.conf
fullscreen=false
fulldouble=false
fullresolution=openglnb
windowresolution=1024x768
output=Overlay
autolock=true
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=mapper-0.74-2.map
usescancodes=true

..
language=
machine=svga_s3 #this can be Tandy or pcjr
captures=capture
memsize=16
..

pcspeaker=false
pcrate=44100
tandy=on
tandyrate=44100
disney=false

..
gus=false
..
sbtype=none

3. Removed protection
No more Codewheel needed..

Highlights:
1. It plays Tandy music, which is nice and clean at 44100Hz.
2. I'll have to test it more, but its like if it plays a short tune at the beginning of some battles
3. Sound effects are nice and clean, especially the spells. Sleep - sounds amazing! + as it hits many enemies its super fast in combat, which is glorious to watch. And there are no crackles, no lags, the fast sound effects play like a dream!
4. There is a longer death sound, which might or might not annoy people. I find it okay
5. Game speed is lightning fast, compared to the GOG version with its agonizingly slow and laggy + has ugly Tandy emulation
6. The character selection menus and item menus in shops flow fluidly like a dream. This is especially important for loot hoarders and also casting spells to heal the party up is faster.
7. What I especially like is the moving around in the cities is super fast and the Tandy emulation gloriously keeps pace! Its like watching a sped-up movie in comparison to the GOG version. This allows a certain "pro-flight dynamics" to take place in dungeons and in cities: I feel I became the old wild animal, quickly running through dungeons, like in the old C-64 times!
8. The "Bump-Into-Wall" sound is also nicer here.
9. Tandy sounds are cleaner, different.

I'll make some screenshots, because it appears they changed the treasure chest screen, I'll have to test this, though..

All in all this is a magnificent improvement - compared to playing with the ugly PC Speaker -, exactly what I was looking for!

10. I also like that there is zero save time, when removing characters or saving the game. Shop "sell item"-delay is also barely noticeable here.

11. While I played the GOG version with the speed set to 58000 cycles (this is just for my PC) and of course I could only walk or "run" with an almost satisfying, but still slow speed in the cities with the limited Tandy sound emulation of the GOG version.
In comparison to that, in this amazing old version I had to take down the speed to 16000 cycles, because everything was so fast.
For some dialogues, like the dirty stables, I had to dial down the speed to 4000 to be able to read, the first sentence, because that one doesn't pause... and in comes the next sentence..

But these are minor inconveniences compared to the amazing advantages that this beautiful, refreshing fast version offers!

I removed the Codewheel protection, so now it accepts ------

. . .

If I find any difference in art, I'll try to replace some graphics files with the ones from the GOG version.

. . .

Also item duplication works flawlessly with this one, as it should.. like on the C-64 with the floppy disk-swaps. I couldn't do it with the GOG version for some reason..

- - -

It's quite remarkable that compared to the new games, like Wasteland 3 and Urtuk the desolation, etc.. this simple, old game draws me in really fast and feels like a breeze: breathing a sigh of relief.. probably because of the old memories were imprinted strongly during my childhood.

Since we all own the GOG version, just throw me a PM.

@mods and @OP

Would it be permissible/legal to publicly share a diff (along with some expected before and after checksums) that could be used to "patch" an officially available release to an older or newer version that is no longer available (or at least not legally and/or easily) on the market ?

I am not a lawyer, so my opinion on the matter is not worth much, IMHO .

I also have no personal interest in Pool of Radiance, but am asking in a general context as if the above could be considered acceptable, it might make things much simpler .

Sorry if the question has been asked/answered before and I missed it .

Reply 2 of 6, by mercy

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
darry wrote on 2022-03-09, 16:51:
@mods and @OP […]
Show full quote

@mods and @OP

Would it be permissible/legal to publicly share a diff (along with some expected before and after checksums) that could be used to "patch" an officially available release to an older or newer version that is no longer available (or at least not legally and/or easily) on the market ?

I am not a lawyer, so my opinion on the matter is not worth much, IMHO .

I also have no personal interest in Pool of Radiance, but am asking in a general context as if the above could be considered acceptable, it might make things much simpler .

Sorry if the question has been asked/answered before and I missed it .

One of the problems is the developers upgraded the game: files got rearranged. Dunno if Diff would be affected by this or not..

Attachments

SSI Gold Box-style game, we are working on

Reply 3 of 6, by BloodyCactus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
mercy wrote on 2022-03-09, 16:26:

I acquired the v1.0? version of the game.
Compared to the very slow GOG version there are significant improvements.

I guess I dont understand (I have several versions of pool), and the gog 1.3 version is not "slow" vs the non-gog 1.0 version.

Maybe your dosbox cycles is setup wrong between gog dosbox + non-gog-dosbox.

item duplication is just character save + reloads, I thought it worked on 1.3 but I'll have to check when I get some time.

"The Gods intervene!" cheat works across all versions of POR that I remember.

I would also not call "siginifigant improvements" that 1.0 has that 1.3 does not... 1.2 did for some strange reason disable tandy music, other than that from 1.0 to 1.3 changed the ECL scripts it added an extra tavern tale and fixed some gambling bugs, and changed maybe how backstabbing worked. Its been a long time since I investigated a lot of these changes.

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--

Reply 4 of 6, by mercy

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
BloodyCactus wrote on 2022-03-09, 18:07:
I guess I dont understand (I have several versions of pool), and the gog 1.3 version is not "slow" vs the non-gog 1.0 version. […]
Show full quote
mercy wrote on 2022-03-09, 16:26:

I acquired the v1.0? version of the game.
Compared to the very slow GOG version there are significant improvements.

I guess I dont understand (I have several versions of pool), and the gog 1.3 version is not "slow" vs the non-gog 1.0 version.

Maybe your dosbox cycles is setup wrong between gog dosbox + non-gog-dosbox.

item duplication is just character save + reloads, I thought it worked on 1.3 but I'll have to check when I get some time.

"The Gods intervene!" cheat works across all versions of POR that I remember.

I would also not call "siginifigant improvements" that 1.0 has that 1.3 does not... 1.2 did for some strange reason disable tandy music, other than that from 1.0 to 1.3 changed the ECL scripts it added an extra tavern tale and fixed some gambling bugs, and changed maybe how backstabbing worked. Its been a long time since I investigated a lot of these changes.

Just installed Curse of the Azure bonds on GOG and on default its slow as Snail on Mogadon with horrific Tandy emulation lagging. I dunno, who messed up the code..
Terms used by me:
1. "fast / superspeed" = as if you have started the game outside of DOSBox, almost. In shops pressing the key "page-down" the wares-selection menus flow fluidly on infinite mode, without a hiccup.
30K-50K cycles cause the info-description full texts at the administration building and training halls to be displayed almost instantly. Plus the Tandy emulation amazingly keeps track with the speed and plays all sounds super-fast as well. For example in the GOG version you cannot ram into a wall and hold down "forward-movement" key, nothing happens. But in this super-speed version bumping into a wall and keeping the forward-movement key held down plays a rapid-fire style "wall-bump"-sound ad infinitum as long as you keep the key pressed. This is critically important for me, as it gives freedom, this means that walk and run movements are also equally this fast. Feels like "infinite FPS" romping in the dungeons / cities.
2. Slow = despite 58000 cyles and Pentium-Slow CPU set in the conf, the game never allows true running speed for me. Its just slow, step-by-step fast walk, as if somebody deliberately inserted an empty wait-cycle, detecting each step. Tandy plays bad as well.

Somebody messed up the code big time. It was either SSI: maybe after coding the excellent v1.0, they fired their amazing Tandy coder and afterward nobody cared... or GOG hired an incompetent fool of a coder, who should have never been allowed to touch any computer code from the beginning!

EASTER EGG FOUND:
!!!!MUSIC!!!!
v1.0?
1. After you bring back the potion to Ohlo in the slums, open the door and answer "A".
The game beautifully plays the entire Tandy Intro music, which is at least 90 seconds long. Versus the 1st game begin, where it plays just the first 15 secs or so..
2. At the beginning of Important NPC battles the game plays a very short Tandy music as well.

- - -

Turbokey also works beautifully with Pool of Radiance v1.0
How to increase keyboard response time in Dosbox?
Significantly speeds up keyboard response.
priority=higher,normal

SSI Gold Box-style game, we are working on

Reply 5 of 6, by BloodyCactus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
mercy wrote on 2022-03-11, 18:27:

For example in the GOG version you cannot ram into a wall and hold down "forward-movement" key, nothing happens. But in this super-speed version bumping into a wall and keeping the forward-movement key held down plays a rapid-fire style "wall-bump"-sound ad infinitum as long as you keep the key pressed. This is critically important for me, as it gives freedom, this means that walk and run movements are also equally this fast. Feels like "infinite FPS" romping in the dungeons / cities.

false. my gog dosbox does your "superspeed/wallbump" version keypress beep no worries. current build svn (last night) does too. These games were not meant to be played this way, its not doom, your not mean to sprint into walls and keep the key pressed down. if you want to play it that way, thats fine. Im not sure its worth complaining about.

mercy wrote on 2022-03-11, 18:27:

2. Slow = despite 58000 cyles and Pentium-Slow CPU set in the conf, the game never allows true running speed for me. Its just slow, step-by-step fast walk, as if somebody deliberately inserted an empty wait-cycle, detecting each step. Tandy plays bad as well.

GOG's dosbox configuration for goldbox games is not setup at all to do Tandy emulation.. shrug.

mercy wrote on 2022-03-11, 18:27:

Somebody messed up the code big time. It was either SSI: maybe after coding the excellent v1.0, they fired their amazing Tandy coder and afterward nobody cared... or GOG hired an incompetent fool of a coder, who should have never been allowed to touch any computer code from the beginning!

this is garbage. checking my dosbox gog vs original, dosbox has its cycles really low. the only other change is dosbox use the cracked version so you can press anything to get past the codewheel. They made no other codechanges, hell they probbly did nothing are are just distributing the cracked version thats been around for decades.

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--