MMaximus wrote on 2022-04-25, 23:23:

RaverX wrote on 2022-04-25, 12:33:

...
Also, some games/apps will run better on a PPro 200 MHz 1MB cache than on low end PII (233, even 266).

I know Quake 1 apparently runs slightly better on a PPro than on a Pentium MMX, but what other games are you referring to?

To be honest - if playing old games is the goal, then building ANY kind of exotic x86 platform (and PPro is a bit exotic in my book) makes absolutely no sense. On the other hand I can justify building a machine with PPro if it's purpose would be for example some early 90s NT workstation or something like that.

I agree that building a Pentium Pro exclusively to run Quake would be pretty niche. It is a very interesting platform though to have in a connection. I would also agree that running NT on it would be ideal.

Pentium Pro is a horrible platform for gaming. Everyone should just send them to a special recycling center. PM me for my address. 😀

I did hear of a few gaming dudes in the day going P-Pro merely for quake, and most of them ended up putting NT on it for the pretend cachet of not running a mere consumer OS, but I think they were a bit stuck in that niche really. They didn't have great variety of games etc. However, I think those in the US were not that badly fixed for upgrade potential, since the PII overdrive came out in time for them to get a couple of years of PII gaming in I think. Definitely wasn't a mass movement, but there was at least one or two of the noisy "look at the awesome power of my wallet" types around that opted for that.

MMaximus wrote on 2022-04-25, 23:23:

RaverX wrote on 2022-04-25, 12:33:

...
Also, some games/apps will run better on a PPro 200 MHz 1MB cache than on low end PII (233, even 266).

I know Quake 1 apparently runs slightly better on a PPro than on a Pentium MMX, but what other games are you referring to?

More then slightly faster.
I think the 200MHz PPro its something like 20-30% faster then the 233MHz Pentium MMX.
It varies depending on resolution tho.
Until Pentium 2 the PPro's was the undisputed king of gaming, and because of the price unattainable for most people =/
And even after the P2 release the PPro was decent, it took until the release of the LX chipset with SDRAM and AGP before the P2 really put some distance to the PPRo.
Well at least if you compared with the 233MHz model, the 300MHz was obviously faster.

So the PPRo was (for a while) a beast for gaming.
To bad so few of us had a chance to play with it when it was current tech =)

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-04-26, 02:28:

I agree that building a Pentium Pro exclusively to run Quake would be pretty niche. It is a very interesting platform though to have in a connection. I would also agree that running NT on it would be ideal.

Good thing this is a complete working box 😁
No building required, though the Virge it has in it might need to be tossed since its one of them odd 2mb models that doesnt look like it can be upgraded, I have a Radeon 7500 PCI I can donate to it with a Voodoo1 or a Stealth 3000 4mb, pretty sure the Stealth would be better for NT3.1. (That's Stealth 3000, the 4000 is AGP 🙁 )

On the Topic of GPUs, which of the Trident based PCI GPUs are the ones to avoid ?
I dug a TGUI9682 out of the trash while scavenging for case parts and I have no idea if its worth keeping or if its ewaste.

luckybob wrote on 2022-04-26, 02:35:

Pentium Pro is a horrible platform for gaming. Everyone should just send them to a special recycling center. PM me for my address. 😀

I disagree, it has very strong performance when handling 32-bit code and was the very first P6-based CPU from Intel. 😀

bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-26, 04:23:

More then slightly faster. I think the 200MHz PPro its something like 20-30% faster then the 233MHz Pentium MMX. It varies depen […]
Show full quote

More then slightly faster.
I think the 200MHz PPro its something like 20-30% faster then the 233MHz Pentium MMX.
It varies depending on resolution tho.
Until Pentium 2 the PPro's was the undisputed king of gaming, and because of the price unattainable for most people =/
And even after the P2 release the PPro was decent, it took until the release of the LX chipset with SDRAM and AGP before the P2 really put some distance to the PPRo.
Well at least if you compared with the 233MHz model, the 300MHz was obviously faster.

So the PPRo was (for a while) a beast for gaming.
To bad so few of us had a chance to play with it when it was current tech =)

Realistically, the Pentium Pro was aimed at server and workstations. The entire Socket 8 platform was out of reach for the average consumers.

The only drawback was that it had mediocre performance with 16-bit and mixed 16/32-bit codes, something that the Pentium II improved upon.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-26, 04:46:

I disagree, it has very strong performance when handling 32-bit code and was the very first P6-based CPU from Intel. :) […]
Show full quote

luckybob wrote on 2022-04-26, 02:35:

Pentium Pro is a horrible platform for gaming. Everyone should just send them to a special recycling center. PM me for my address. 😀

I disagree, it has very strong performance when handling 32-bit code and was the very first P6-based CPU from Intel. 😀

bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-26, 04:23:

More then slightly faster. I think the 200MHz PPro its something like 20-30% faster then the 233MHz Pentium MMX. It varies depen […]
Show full quote

More then slightly faster.
I think the 200MHz PPro its something like 20-30% faster then the 233MHz Pentium MMX.
It varies depending on resolution tho.
Until Pentium 2 the PPro's was the undisputed king of gaming, and because of the price unattainable for most people =/
And even after the P2 release the PPro was decent, it took until the release of the LX chipset with SDRAM and AGP before the P2 really put some distance to the PPRo.
Well at least if you compared with the 233MHz model, the 300MHz was obviously faster.

So the PPRo was (for a while) a beast for gaming.
To bad so few of us had a chance to play with it when it was current tech =)

Realistically, the Pentium Pro was aimed at server and workstations. The entire Socket 8 platform was out of reach for the average consumers.

The only drawback was that it had mediocre performance with 16-bit and mixed 16/32-bit codes, something that the Pentium II improved upon.

What about the Pentium Pro Overdrive which is pretty much a Pentium II on the socket 8 package ? (Though there are differences)

That said, I think the 1mb PPro should pretty much crush anything you can throw at it from that era of computing, the other quastion I have is . .can you overclock the PPro ?

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 04:49:

What about the Pentium Pro Overdrive which is pretty much a Pentium II on the socket 8 package ? (Though there are differences)

You mean the Pentium II Overdrive? The major difference that I'm aware is the L2 cache runs at full CPU speed unlike the Slot 1 Pentium IIs.

That said, I think the 1mb PPro should pretty much crush anything you can throw at it from that era of computing, the other quastion I have is . .can you overclock the PPro ?

As long at the code is fully 32-bit, yes. When it comes to overclocking the options are limited compared to the other platforms but the Pentium Pro supports the x3.5 and x4 CPU multipliers. IIRC, I saw one video where it was overclocked to 233MHz and crushed the Pentium MMX at the same frequency.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-26, 05:12:

You mean the Pentium II Overdrive? The major difference that I'm aware is the L2 cache runs at full CPU speed unlike the Slot 1 […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 04:49:

What about the Pentium Pro Overdrive which is pretty much a Pentium II on the socket 8 package ? (Though there are differences)

You mean the Pentium II Overdrive? The major difference that I'm aware is the L2 cache runs at full CPU speed unlike the Slot 1 Pentium IIs.

That said, I think the 1mb PPro should pretty much crush anything you can throw at it from that era of computing, the other quastion I have is . .can you overclock the PPro ?

As long at the code is fully 32-bit, yes. When it comes to overclocking the options are limited compared to the other platforms but the Pentium Pro supports the x3.5 and x4 CPU multipliers. IIRC, I saw one video where it was overclocked to 233MHz and crushed the Pentium MMX at the same frequency.

Yup thats the chip, currently watching two for like 600 USD each ...have yet to see a working one for less than that.

Are those 2 OEM Overdrives? I purchased 2 NIB 333 overdrives from ComputerGeeks in early 2000 or so and they came with heatsinks and a fan from what I recall. Glad I kept the boxes and contents if they are worth so much now.

Unknown_K wrote on 2022-04-26, 06:01:

Are those 2 OEM Overdrives? I purchased 2 NIB 333 overdrives from ComputerGeeks in early 2000 or so and they came with heatsinks and a fan from what I recall. Glad I kept the boxes and contents if they are worth so much now.

they are OEM ones, never used aside from checking they post according to the seller, they dont have fans but have the huge black heatsinks attached to them they come in sealed trays.

AngryByDefault wrote on 2022-04-25, 00:36:

bjwil1991 wrote on 2022-04-23, 16:49:

Made an offer on a PVM-1341 that has composite, s-video (Y/C), analog RGB, and Digital RGB. No audio in for the RGB line and tha […]
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Made an offer on a PVM-1341 that has composite, s-video (Y/C), analog RGB, and Digital RGB. No audio in for the RGB line and that can be arranged easily by installing a 3.5mm jack and only have mono audio directly to the amp. There might be a mod for that, however. The Sony emblem is missing and I might be able to find one somewhere.

Hope this thing gets packed like a tank and doesn't fall apart on me like the last PVM.

Seller's photos:

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600 (1).jpg

Nice!
Weren't those meant to be used in video production back in the day?

Some TV stations used these in their vans and for video production as well (like movies).

These days, they're primarily used for retro gaming, streaming, and watching cable.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 06:07:

Unknown_K wrote on 2022-04-26, 06:01:

Are those 2 OEM Overdrives? I purchased 2 NIB 333 overdrives from ComputerGeeks in early 2000 or so and they came with heatsinks and a fan from what I recall. Glad I kept the boxes and contents if they are worth so much now.

they are OEM ones, never used aside from checking they post according to the seller, they dont have fans but have the huge black heatsinks attached to them they come in sealed trays.

I got 2 PPro Overdrived NIB back in 2003 for about €25, it seems they're gradually moving back to the original retail price... Although I like the platform a lot for its technical prowess, I barely use my overdriven PR440FX. It is still a snappy and rockstable Win2K system.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 05:47:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-26, 05:12:

You mean the Pentium II Overdrive? The major difference that I'm aware is the L2 cache runs at full CPU speed unlike the Slot 1 […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 04:49:

What about the Pentium Pro Overdrive which is pretty much a Pentium II on the socket 8 package ? (Though there are differences)

You mean the Pentium II Overdrive? The major difference that I'm aware is the L2 cache runs at full CPU speed unlike the Slot 1 Pentium IIs.

That said, I think the 1mb PPro should pretty much crush anything you can throw at it from that era of computing, the other quastion I have is . .can you overclock the PPro ?

As long at the code is fully 32-bit, yes. When it comes to overclocking the options are limited compared to the other platforms but the Pentium Pro supports the x3.5 and x4 CPU multipliers. IIRC, I saw one video where it was overclocked to 233MHz and crushed the Pentium MMX at the same frequency.

Yup thats the chip, currently watching two for like 600 USD each ...have yet to see a working one for less than that.

I've bought some a few years ago. Played around with them but wasn't impressed. So I sold them off. I like my 1MB 200Mhz running at 233 better. It is slower, but not that much.

kixs wrote on 2022-04-26, 10:00:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 05:47:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-04-26, 05:12:

You mean the Pentium II Overdrive? The major difference that I'm aware is the L2 cache runs at full CPU speed unlike the Slot 1 Pentium IIs.

As long at the code is fully 32-bit, yes. When it comes to overclocking the options are limited compared to the other platforms but the Pentium Pro supports the x3.5 and x4 CPU multipliers. IIRC, I saw one video where it was overclocked to 233MHz and crushed the Pentium MMX at the same frequency.

Yup thats the chip, currently watching two for like 600 USD each ...have yet to see a working one for less than that.

I've bought some a few years ago. Played around with them but wasn't impressed. So I sold them off. I like my 1MB 200Mhz running at 233 better. It is slower, but not that much.

have a feeling ill be using the 1mb CPU more than the OD, but it'll be cool to have one for benchmarking, I have a number of PCI GPUs that have AGP variants and it might be fun to run the numbers across a range of Pentium 1, Pentium Pro and OD CPUs to see how they vary, might throw a 333 Pentium II slot 1 in there as a base line for the AGP variants.

Not really doing it for an real purpose but rather I have the pats and it'll be fun to tinker with them all for the testing 😁

HanJammer wrote on 2022-04-26, 00:02:

To be honest - if playing old games is the goal, then building ANY kind of exotic x86 platform (and PPro is a bit exotic in my book) makes absolutely no sense. On the other hand I can justify building a machine with PPro if it's purpose would be for example some early 90s NT workstation or something like that.

that's the nice thing about this hobby, it doesn't need to make sense, if we wanna use exotic hardware we can use exotic hardware just for the fun of it 😀

been looking for this one for a while now, finally got a Sound Galaxy NX ^^

flupke11 wrote on 2022-04-26, 08:25:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-04-26, 06:07:

Unknown_K wrote on 2022-04-26, 06:01:

Are those 2 OEM Overdrives? I purchased 2 NIB 333 overdrives from ComputerGeeks in early 2000 or so and they came with heatsinks and a fan from what I recall. Glad I kept the boxes and contents if they are worth so much now.

they are OEM ones, never used aside from checking they post according to the seller, they dont have fans but have the huge black heatsinks attached to them they come in sealed trays.

I got 2 PPro Overdrived NIB back in 2003 for about €25, it seems they're gradually moving back to the original retail price... Although I like the platform a lot for its technical prowess, I barely use my overdriven PR440FX. It is still a snappy and rockstable Win2K system.

I did not check but there are credible sources online that claim there's roughly a gram of gold in the original PPro.
So, look at the prices the last years - extraction effort included, its price floor is bound to hover around $ 50, no matter the state.

imi wrote on 2022-04-26, 12:09:

that's the nice thing about this hobby, it doesn't need to make sense, if we wanna use exotic hardware we can use exotic hardwar […]
Show full quote

HanJammer wrote on 2022-04-26, 00:02:

To be honest - if playing old games is the goal, then building ANY kind of exotic x86 platform (and PPro is a bit exotic in my book) makes absolutely no sense. On the other hand I can justify building a machine with PPro if it's purpose would be for example some early 90s NT workstation or something like that.

that's the nice thing about this hobby, it doesn't need to make sense, if we wanna use exotic hardware we can use exotic hardware just for the fun of it 😀

been looking for this one for a while now, finally got a Sound Galaxy NX ^^
hardware40_80.jpg

Nice, that is one of the few cards I still want to get.

imi wrote on 2022-04-26, 12:09:

been looking for this one for a while now, finally got a Sound Galaxy NX ^^
hardware40_80.jpg

Nice find! Love to get one of those myself.