I grew up with cheap hardware as my one and only option so that's where the fun is now for me. Trouble shooting issues and getting the most out of the cheap stuff is a never ending source of entertainment and satisfaction.

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-01, 00:48:

W.x. wrote on 2023-05-31, 16:52:

He has a syndrom of "all what is not high class is garbage". He knows only black and white. He is like Retro Hardware channel on youtrube, scrapping functional Ati Xpert 2000 (Rage 128) cards, just because "it's junk", according him, and he already have 1000x better stuff. It's kinda disrespectful to old hardware. Even low end and mid-tier hardware has its place in history and deserves respect, as nothing new will be made.

TBF Rage 128 cards are like the cockroaches of the retro hardware world, there are 10's of thousands of them out there selling for pennies, you cant give them away and in the end how many people would actually use one even if it was working ? (Does testing and benches count here? I'm thinking of actual use in a finished build)

Some retro hardware really is rubbish no matter how much you want it to not be, this is something all collectors need to come to terms with eventually. (on a side point, there are still rage cards being made from out of china which makes the retro ones even less useful)

One snuck into that last lot I posted about, apart from deliberately buying the AIW 128, I have sort of become an involuntary collector of them.

edit: Forgot half of what I was gonna post, was meaning to say it's a shame there's not any high quality PCI board designs to transplant the chips to, they'd be aight if not outcompeted by a bajillion more interesting AGP cards.

Speaking of which boxful, I figured out how that monster fax card was semi autonomous... the top left 40 pin chip is a UMC made 6502 ... I was kinda hoping it was an 80188 or something... still... maybe I can flash C64 or Apple ][ firmware to it... 🤣

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-06-01, 01:51:

One snuck into that last lot I posted about, apart from deliberately buying the AIW 128, I have sort of become an involuntary co […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-01, 00:48:

W.x. wrote on 2023-05-31, 16:52:

He has a syndrom of "all what is not high class is garbage". He knows only black and white. He is like Retro Hardware channel on youtrube, scrapping functional Ati Xpert 2000 (Rage 128) cards, just because "it's junk", according him, and he already have 1000x better stuff. It's kinda disrespectful to old hardware. Even low end and mid-tier hardware has its place in history and deserves respect, as nothing new will be made.

TBF Rage 128 cards are like the cockroaches of the retro hardware world, there are 10's of thousands of them out there selling for pennies, you cant give them away and in the end how many people would actually use one even if it was working ? (Does testing and benches count here? I'm thinking of actual use in a finished build)

Some retro hardware really is rubbish no matter how much you want it to not be, this is something all collectors need to come to terms with eventually. (on a side point, there are still rage cards being made from out of china which makes the retro ones even less useful)

One snuck into that last lot I posted about, apart from deliberately buying the AIW 128, I have sort of become an involuntary collector of them.

edit: Forgot half of what I was gonna post, was meaning to say it's a shame there's not any high quality PCI board designs to transplant the chips to, they'd be aight if not outcompeted by a bajillion more interesting AGP cards.

Speaking of which boxful, I figured out how that monster fax card was semi autonomous... the top left 40 pin chip is a UMC made 6502 ... I was kinda hoping it was an 80188 or something... still... maybe I can flash C64 or Apple ][ firmware to it... 🤣

Heh making a hacked C64 out of a fax card would be hilarious, even if only gave you basic and nothing else it would still be funny.

The new Rage cards from China are PCI jobs IIRC, not sure how good they are but being rage cards I cant imagine they would be good for much more than basic word processing/browsing machines.

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-01, 00:48:

W.x. wrote on 2023-05-31, 16:52:

He has a syndrom of "all what is not high class is garbage". He knows only black and white. He is like Retro Hardware channel on youtrube, scrapping functional Ati Xpert 2000 (Rage 128) cards, just because "it's junk", according him, and he already have 1000x better stuff. It's kinda disrespectful to old hardware. Even low end and mid-tier hardware has its place in history and deserves respect, as nothing new will be made.

TBF Rage 128 cards are like the cockroaches of the retro hardware world, there are 10's of thousands of them out there selling for pennies, you cant give them away and in the end how many people would actually use one even if it was working ? (Does testing and benches count here? I'm thinking of actual use in a finished build)

Some retro hardware really is rubbish no matter how much you want it to not be, this is something all collectors need to come to terms with eventually. (on a side point, there are still rage cards being made from out of china which makes the retro ones even less useful)

Hey, they're at least a little appreciated in the vintage mac world. The abundance combined with Mac OS 7 drivers means they can actually be useful as a VGA out card on older PCI machines.

BetaC wrote on 2023-06-01, 04:38:

Trashbytes wrote on 2023-06-01, 00:48:

W.x. wrote on 2023-05-31, 16:52:

He has a syndrom of "all what is not high class is garbage". He knows only black and white. He is like Retro Hardware channel on youtrube, scrapping functional Ati Xpert 2000 (Rage 128) cards, just because "it's junk", according him, and he already have 1000x better stuff. It's kinda disrespectful to old hardware. Even low end and mid-tier hardware has its place in history and deserves respect, as nothing new will be made.

TBF Rage 128 cards are like the cockroaches of the retro hardware world, there are 10's of thousands of them out there selling for pennies, you cant give them away and in the end how many people would actually use one even if it was working ? (Does testing and benches count here? I'm thinking of actual use in a finished build)

Some retro hardware really is rubbish no matter how much you want it to not be, this is something all collectors need to come to terms with eventually. (on a side point, there are still rage cards being made from out of china which makes the retro ones even less useful)

Hey, they're at least a little appreciated in the vintage mac world. The abundance combined with Mac OS 7 drivers means they can actually be useful as a VGA out card on older PCI machines.

I know its bad of me . .but I do tend to forget the Mac world, my apologies 😜

appiah4 wrote on 2023-05-31, 06:47:

Why are you outright ignoring my point about it being an mATX board with AGP/PCI/ISA?

Sorry, forgot 'niche garbage' 😀
why bother when you can buy _fully working_ top performance ~$40 boards with real AGP all day long? like right now on ebay Asus mez-m (with bonus celeron 466, 256M, originally in HP B2B computers so guaranteed stable). I want to understand what makes person deliberately pick something bad when good alternatives are available in similar price range other than hoarding or meme? It cant be Harbingers of Failure because by now everyone knows what is good and bad, so its an intentional choice.

Tetrium wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:07:

Maybe because then he'd have to admit he was wrong... I kinda like PCPartner boards. They seem to have made boring no-frills but decent boards

Tetrium wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:07:

it just works (sometimes kinda)

'sometimes kinda just works' sums it up nicely 😀 Most of us were broke when young and couldnt afford the good stuff, doesnt mean you have to relieve childhood trauma torturing yourself with supermarket K6 Deal system or VIA/SIS chipsets now while arguing its not that bad because sometimes it just kinda works. 25 years ago difference between noname board with dodgy chipset and something stable could be $40-50, up to half the cost. Hard to justify spending twice the money when you dont know any better and two products claim to do same job. Nowadays you have to consciously go out of your way to buy low end bad stuff on purpose, like this PCChips M747 / SiS 600 Tuning: The Anti Thesis Thread. NOT the bane of MY existence.

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:51:

I believe you mistook the brand with PC Chips

by stating they competed in same market segment? PCPartner founders even compared themselves to ECS(so pcchips post merger).

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:51:

2. It was already explained to you by appiah that it's not really the point and that this chipset wasn't really that bad.

~70% the speed and crashes, its only not really that bad when compared to Sis 5600

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:51:

3. It has nothing to do with using "some minimal subset of computer capabilities" - It simply depends on what are you going to do with such setup. For the purposes appiah described this motherboard seems perfect.

perfect for test rig where its only function is booting to BIOS screen 😀

HanSolo wrote on 2023-05-31, 19:41:

What is so wrong about the VT82C693A and its AGP implementation?

nothing at all, VIA kept VIA4in1 installing in "standard" x1 AGP mode by default as a prank all the way to 2001. Standard VIA chipset life was juggling drivers to get make computer stop crashing https://books.google.pl/books?id=RwIAAAAAMBAJ … ia4in1+crashing

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:09:

Sorry, forgot 'niche garbage' 😀

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it."
He bought it because it was cheap and a potential repair candidate and test bench. You know, for fun. Who tf cares if it was a bad, low quality model when it came out decades ago? That's not the point. He liked it and that's all the reason someone needs.
Can't believe this needs to be said on a forum that is essentially based on old junk nobody else wants anymore.
What's next, people talking down on each other for not owning Voodoo 5, only a Voodoo 2? Hate this elitist shit.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it. […]
Show full quote

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:09:

Sorry, forgot 'niche garbage' 😀

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it."
He bought it because it was cheap and a potential repair candidate and test bench. You know, for fun. Who tf cares if it was a bad, low quality model when it came out decades ago? That's not the point. He liked it and that's all the reason someone needs.
Can't believe this needs to be said on a forum that is essentially based on old junk nobody else wants anymore.
What's next, people talking down on each other for not owning Voodoo 5, only a Voodoo 2? Hate this elitist shit.

Oh c'mon. You know the V5-6k is the only real 3dfx card. Anything below that is just trash. /S

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it. […]
Show full quote

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:09:

Sorry, forgot 'niche garbage' 😀

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it."
He bought it because it was cheap and a potential repair candidate and test bench. You know, for fun. Who tf cares if it was a bad, low quality model when it came out decades ago? That's not the point. He liked it and that's all the reason someone needs.
Can't believe this needs to be said on a forum that is essentially based on old junk nobody else wants anymore.
What's next, people talking down on each other for not owning Voodoo 5, only a Voodoo 2? Hate this elitist shit.

Honestly, not worth it 🤣

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-01, 06:09:

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it. […]
Show full quote

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:09:

Sorry, forgot 'niche garbage' 😀

This is so dumb, he already told you the reason: "then I came across this listed as faulty for about 10 bucks and I went for it."
He bought it because it was cheap and a potential repair candidate and test bench. You know, for fun. Who tf cares if it was a bad, low quality model when it came out decades ago? That's not the point. He liked it and that's all the reason someone needs.
Can't believe this needs to be said on a forum that is essentially based on old junk nobody else wants anymore.
What's next, people talking down on each other for not owning Voodoo 5, only a Voodoo 2? Hate this elitist shit.

Oh c'mon. You know the V5-6k is the only real 3dfx card. Anything below that is just trash. /S

heh, 3DFX was a fun time

appiah4 wrote on 2023-05-31, 08:57:

When it rains, it pours. I always wanted more AT/286 era systems and a horizontal AT case. Managed to save these from getting scrapped, cost me about 15 bucks each. Olivetti has a NIC I can use to add XT-IDE, and the noname one comes with a Hercules adapter which I wanted. Double plus good.

that Olivetti looks like it has seen some rough times 😀 good saves and hopefully works ok (or can be readily returned to clean and working order anyway)

Something nobody here will ever admit is that you can get 99 percent of the fun with like 10 percent of the work. If I actually played games as opposed to building absolutely unhinged "perfect for *insert activity*" builds, I'd legit throw a GeForce 6600 PCIe onto a late LGA775 board (mostly for the solid state caps that came into common usage around that time) with an LGA775 Pentium 4 with a modern SATA optical drive and a modern SATA SSD. You could probably put this build together for $100~ and it would run nearly every game made from 1995 to 2005 flawlessly and it would be extremely reliable. For monitors any late 1280x1024 LCD would be my recommendation, CRTs are getting kind of pricy and they are a nightmare to keep adjusted correctly.

The old super high end hardware is all unreliable as shit now. Old high end GPUs drop dead for absolutely no obvious reason, old hard drives die constantly (often right after you finish setting up the OS....), old motherboards are suffering from cold solder joints and bad caps, etc. I only recommend investing in the "good stuff" if you intend to learn electronics to a sufficient degree to repair and maintain your own stuff. The mid end stuff on the other hand, that didn't leave the factory running balls to the walls with extremely complex circuit designs are still mostly doing well. Like seriously whatever high end part your looking at, just look at the next gen immediately after its mid range stuff. its the same tech but usually simplified.

I honestly have no idea keeps me interested in this hobby, 3/4ths of my time is just testing new acquisitions and chasing down various maintenance issues trying to keep the current fleet in good order (which is quickly becoming a problem, I'm almost certainly going to have to learn to let go and pass some of this stuff onto new hands at some point). I'm also slowly starting to make concessions to the march of time, like I'm trying to move fully away from mechanical hard drives for my actual builds over to either SATA SSDs for the systems new enough to have SATA or IDE-to-SD adapters for the older systems. I'm also trying to move away from physical discs and relying on disc images in as many places as possible.
On Topic:

Bought more GPUs. Since I've noticed PCI bus GPUs are going nuts for some reason I'm trying to grab whatever ones I don't have that I am sure I want. Right now I've got an X1300 PCI ($18) and a Trident Blade3D 9880 PCI ($20) in the mail, along with a Radeon HD2600XT AGP (which is a rare DX10 class AGP card. Paid $40, not great not horrible. You don't see the HD 2000 AGP cards very often anymore). Still a few more expensive models I feel like I NEED in my collection. I'm mostly going after very fast (considering the bus they are connected to) cards like the X1300 or cards that are niche/unique like the Blade3D. I already have PCI examples of TNT2, GF2MX, GF4 MX, GF5200, GF5500, and Radeon 7000. I think I have a Radeon 9000 PCI somewhere too (though its not listed in my spreadsheet).

I also bought a lot of 22 as is non working GPUs for $40 and sort of burned myself. They were all low end/entry level AGP cards and in my hubris I assumed the previous owner was incompetent and didn't test them right since these low end GPUs almost never die in my experience. I figured probably half of them would work with little to no effort.. Nope, all but 3 so far are actually dead. Going to slowly go through them and see if I can identify the issues with them. Out of the 3 that worked 1 just worked with no extra work, and of the other 2 one I just cleaned the AGP pins with a rubber eraser which did the trick, and the other just has an intermittent cold solder joint in its VGA port which I can fix whenever I get around to needing a GF2MX/200 16MB for something. Several of the others went from no display to artifacting after I cleaned the AGP pins, so that suggests I will get more of them working.

I also grabbed a Dell Precision T3500 at the local thrift store for $5. Had a quad core Nahelem 1366 Xeon in it, 6GB of RAM, a Quadro FX 580, and a PCIe Soundblaster X-Fi. This thing actually got me thinking. My first retro machine that I actually bought (which excludes the two prior machines I was given for free. A Deskpro EN and a DEC Celebris I immediately damaged due to being a complete noob about handling retro hardware) was a Dell Dimension 4600 in like 2016. In 2016 that Dell was 12 years old. I happily considered that retro, and that machine was obsolete to the point of complete uselessness by then. This Precision T3500 is currently 13 years old... is it retro? I could certainly use it as an XP machine, but I could also put an SSD in it and have a completely useable office PC.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-06-01, 07:30:

Something nobody here will ever admit is that you can get 99 percent of the fun with like 10 percent of the work. If I actually played games as opposed to building absolutely unhinged "perfect for *insert activity*" builds, I'd legit throw a GeForce 6600 PCIe onto a late LGA775 board (mostly for the solid state caps that came into common usage around that time) with an LGA775 Pentium 4 with a modern SATA optical drive and a modern SATA SSD. You could probably put this build together for $100~ and it would run nearly every game made from 1995 to 2005 flawlessly and it would be extremely reliable. For monitors any late 1280x1024 LCD would be my recommendation, CRTs are getting kind of pricy and they are a nightmare to keep adjusted correctly.

The old super high end hardware is all unreliable as shit now. Old high end GPUs drop dead for absolutely no obvious reason, old hard drives die constantly (often right after you finish setting up the OS....), old motherboards are suffering from cold solder joints and bad caps, etc. I only recommend investing in the "good stuff" if you intend to learn electronics to a sufficient degree to repair and maintain your own stuff. The mid end stuff on the other hand, that didn't leave the factory running balls to the walls with extremely complex circuit designs are still mostly doing well. Like seriously whatever high end part your looking at, just look at the next gen immediately after its mid range stuff. its the same tech but usually simplified.

lots of truth there, in fact if the desire is to experience software and games then one can go further - budget allowing - and just get a mid/budget games computer, something that can play a few recent aaa titles acceptably and then use gog/steam along with dosbox and pcem plus other VMs and emulators to do almost everything necessary to get almost anything running just fine

the vintage tech just isnt needed

sure there are some marginal differences in sound, graphics, crt nuances, sounds of drives running, appearance and all that but they are extras and not necessary

however the vintage tech and the marginal differences can be fun, interesting and feel like something authentic and so on. building something in order to play x is what we tell ourselves, the real game is the maintenance of all this and testing it out and so forth 😀

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-06-01, 07:30:

Something nobody here will ever admit is that you can get 99 percent of the fun with like 10 percent of the work. If I actually […]
Show full quote

Something nobody here will ever admit is that you can get 99 percent of the fun with like 10 percent of the work. If I actually played games as opposed to building absolutely unhinged "perfect for *insert activity*" builds, I'd legit throw a GeForce 6600 PCIe onto a late LGA775 board (mostly for the solid state caps that came into common usage around that time) with an LGA775 Pentium 4 with a modern SATA optical drive and a modern SATA SSD. You could probably put this build together for $100~ and it would run nearly every game made from 1995 to 2005 flawlessly and it would be extremely reliable. For monitors any late 1280x1024 LCD would be my recommendation, CRTs are getting kind of pricy and they are a nightmare to keep adjusted correctly.

The old super high end hardware is all unreliable as shit now. Old high end GPUs drop dead for absolutely no obvious reason, old hard drives die constantly (often right after you finish setting up the OS....), old motherboards are suffering from cold solder joints and bad caps, etc. I only recommend investing in the "good stuff" if you intend to learn electronics to a sufficient degree to repair and maintain your own stuff. The mid end stuff on the other hand, that didn't leave the factory running balls to the walls with extremely complex circuit designs are still mostly doing well. Like seriously whatever high end part your looking at, just look at the next gen immediately after its mid range stuff. its the same tech but usually simplified.

I honestly have no idea keeps me interested in this hobby, 3/4ths of my time is just testing new acquisitions and chasing down various maintenance issues trying to keep the current fleet in good order (which is quickly becoming a problem, I'm almost certainly going to have to learn to let go and pass some of this stuff onto new hands at some point). I'm also slowly starting to make concessions to the march of time, like I'm trying to move fully away from mechanical hard drives for my actual builds over to either SATA SSDs for the systems new enough to have SATA or IDE-to-SD adapters for the older systems. I'm also trying to move away from physical discs and relying on disc images in as many places as possible.
On Topic:

Bought more GPUs. Since I've noticed PCI bus GPUs are going nuts for some reason I'm trying to grab whatever ones I don't have that I am sure I want. Right now I've got an X1300 PCI ($18) and a Trident Blade3D 9880 PCI ($20) in the mail, along with a Radeon HD2600XT AGP (which is a rare DX10 class AGP card. Paid $40, not great not horrible. You don't see the HD 2000 AGP cards very often anymore). Still a few more expensive models I feel like I NEED in my collection. I'm mostly going after very fast (considering the bus they are connected to) cards like the X1300 or cards that are niche/unique like the Blade3D. I already have PCI examples of TNT2, GF2MX, GF4 MX, GF5200, GF5500, and Radeon 7000. I think I have a Radeon 9000 PCI somewhere too (though its not listed in my spreadsheet).

I also bought a lot of 22 as is non working GPUs for $40 and sort of burned myself. They were all low end/entry level AGP cards and in my hubris I assumed the previous owner was incompetent and didn't test them right since these low end GPUs almost never die in my experience. I figured probably half of them would work with little to no effort.. Nope, all but 3 so far are actually dead. Going to slowly go through them and see if I can identify the issues with them. Out of the 3 that worked 1 just worked with no extra work, and of the other 2 one I just cleaned the AGP pins with a rubber eraser which did the trick, and the other just has an intermittent cold solder joint in its VGA port which I can fix whenever I get around to needing a GF2MX/200 16MB for something. Several of the others went from no display to artifacting after I cleaned the AGP pins, so that suggests I will get more of them working.

I also grabbed a Dell Precision T3500 at the local thrift store for $5. Had a quad core Nahelem 1366 Xeon in it, 6GB of RAM, a Quadro FX 580, and a PCIe Soundblaster X-Fi. This thing actually got me thinking. My first retro machine that I actually bought (which excludes the two prior machines I was given for free. A Deskpro EN and a DEC Celebris I immediately damaged due to being a complete noob about handling retro hardware) was a Dell Dimension 4600 in like 2016. In 2016 that Dell was 12 years old. I happily considered that retro, and that machine was obsolete to the point of complete uselessness by then. This Precision T3500 is currently 13 years old... is it retro? I could certainly use it as an XP machine, but I could also put an SSD in it and have a completely useable office PC.

1366 is still no slouch at most tasks, I have a 990x build with 24Gb of ram that is still going strong for 99% of daily tasks I throw at it, the only time it shows its age is when you throw more modern software at it that requires higher IPC, a larger CPU cache, bigger bandwidth on both bus and memory and NVME transfer speeds, all of which are currently limited to the latest games. Games more than a few years old run just fine on it however and I have yet to find any desktop software that it cant handle with ease.

I use mine with a hot swap sata SSD bay that lets me swap boot drives around, currently have 4 setup so I can switch it between XP, Win7, Linux Mint and Windows 10 depending on what I need it to do. Actually wondering if the thing can run a Hackintosh setup, might investigate that at some point just so I can piss around with Mac OS.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

Who tf cares if it was a bad, low quality model when it came out decades ago?

_is_ bad. 20 years ago people might not have had a choice due to price/buying power, today almost everything is available at acceptable prices.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

That's not the point.

super, and I want to know the point. As I said I understand hoarding and meme collecting, but few answers I received were clearly self deceiving:
- VT82C693A is a good chipset
- VT82C693A AGP is not broken at all, who knows why VIA 4in1 installs in crippled mode by default and nobody needs newer nvidia drivers
- company priding itself on targeting low end market and comparing itself directly to pcchips wasnt low end
- PCChips M726 is a good board

Im interested in sources of those delusions. Is it choice supportive bias? I found Megadrive under the tree so Nintendo automatically sucks and Sega does what Nintendont? Is it still lack of clear information warning people about hardware traps? At least for graphic cards vlaskcz did a great series of videos 'Worst Game Graphics Cards' https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOeoPV … p4w4rQnr_MIab17 covering all the early 3D scams. Sound cards are similarly thoroughly documented, no one tries to defend creative CQM as usable anymore.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

Can't believe this needs to be said on a forum that is essentially based on old junk nobody else wants anymore.

Are you of the opinion all vintage hardware is equal? no old hardware left behind? we should all strive to save precious SiS 6326 cards, P4 Celeron SDRam office computers and soft modems? There is no point discussing hardware merits?

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

Hate this elitist shit.

avoiding bad products is elitist, ok

You seem to be conflating someone stating "this hardware is bad" with "you bought bad hardware therefore you should feel bad".

You all are having badwrongfun so stop please, please stop, I said stop why don't you stop goddamnit stop fucking stoooooopp!

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-01, 09:11:

_is_ bad. 20 years ago people might not have had a choice due to price/buying power, today almost everything is available at acc […]
Show full quote

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

Who tf cares if it was a bad, low quality model when it came out decades ago?

_is_ bad. 20 years ago people might not have had a choice due to price/buying power, today almost everything is available at acceptable prices.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

That's not the point.

super, and I want to know the point. As I said I understand hoarding and meme collecting, but few answers I received were clearly self deceiving:
- VT82C693A is a good chipset
- VT82C693A AGP is not broken at all, who knows why VIA 4in1 installs in crippled mode by default and nobody needs newer nvidia drivers
- company priding itself on targeting low end market and comparing itself directly to pcchips wasnt low end
- PCChips M726 is a good board

Im interested in sources of those delusions. Is it choice supportive bias? I found Megadrive under the tree so Nintendo automatically sucks and Sega does what Nintendont? Is it still lack of clear information warning people about hardware traps? At least for graphic cards vlaskcz did a great series of videos 'Worst Game Graphics Cards' https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOeoPV … p4w4rQnr_MIab17 covering all the early 3D scams. Sound cards are similarly thoroughly documented, no one tries to defend creative CQM as usable anymore.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

Can't believe this needs to be said on a forum that is essentially based on old junk nobody else wants anymore.

Are you of the opinion all vintage hardware is equal? no old hardware left behind? we should all strive to save precious SiS 6326 cards, P4 Celeron SDRam office computers and soft modems? There is no point discussing hardware merits?

Mandrew wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:41:

Hate this elitist shit.

avoiding bad products is elitist, ok

You seem to be conflating someone stating "this hardware is bad" with "you bought bad hardware therefore you should feel bad".

I shouldn't have to say this, but this is a very silly argument worthy of being in Monty Python, I think both sides should just drop it and go back to being the tech junk yard hoes we are.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-06-01, 05:09:

Tetrium wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:07:

Maybe because then he'd have to admit he was wrong... I kinda like PCPartner boards. They seem to have made boring no-frills but decent boards

Tetrium wrote on 2023-05-31, 10:07:

it just works (sometimes kinda)

'sometimes kinda just works' sums it up nicely

No, that doesn't sum it up at all.

You were literally calling it garbage. Do you know what garbage even is? It is stuff that is junk, trash, of no use (anymore), spent, while several people actually explained the use of these boards to you which contradicts these boards being garbage. Yet you choose to ignore it (which is something ignorant people do a lot if they are also blockheads). Instead you go ahead with selective misquoting people and responding to that (which is commonly known as strawman argument). Your strawman arguments are the only garbage here rn.

The rest of what you wrote is mostly untrue in the literal sense.

rasz_pl wrote:

I found Megadrive under the tree so Nintendo automatically sucks and Sega does what Nintendont

Actually I got a Megadrive for nostalgic reasons. Also for the the games, the controller, and the addons. No offense to the SNES, but it's not my jam. 😜

appiah4 wrote on 2023-06-01, 09:14:

You all are having badwrongfun so stop please, please stop, I said stop why don't you stop goddamnit stop fucking stoooooopp!

You are too right about this. Not worth it.
Here is a POS low-end crap of a CPU I just bought. Just because.
And /s of course.