Stull wrote:

Nice speakers!

Thanks! 😁

Stull wrote:

It's hard to find modern speakers with 12" woofers these days...there are 5.25" and 6.5" dual/triple/quadruple cone setups that can hit 35Hz (sans-subwoofer), but I still think they lack something compared to just using larger woofers. I don't know how to explain it other than it just sounds more natural and balanced.

Well, many small subs (like my 8 inch Velo) compensate small size with high excursion, which in turn requires bigger amplifier power. For comparison, 50 wrms per channel should be enough to power the large JBL 120Ti speakers, but the small Velodyne SC-8 needs a 1250 watt rms Velodyne SC-1250 amp to hit the low ends.

Stull wrote:

Also, for about the last 15 years I've used this to gauge low end performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6ZrxO2jlwc 😁

Sounds great, will try it.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

...so I hope nobody would brand me heretic for posting this....

...er um, you STARTED this thread 🤣!

tincup wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

...so I hope nobody would brand me heretic for posting this....

...er um, you STARTED this thread 🤣!

Ah, I didn't say retro computer hardware, did I? 🤣

Well, I just wonder though. We're spending our money buying sound generators like MT-32 or SC-55, but we (gamers) don't seem to bother much about loudspeakers. So far, Malik is the only fellow Vogoners I know who connect his gaming setup to a dedicated HT receiver. Imagine playing WarCraft III through a home theater setup. 😀

Although, probably, for us old game lovers (especially DOS games), hi-fidelity sound reproduction won't probably help much. I mean, how many old games came with 16 bit, 44.1 khz .WAV files? If anything, transparent studio monitors like Yamaha NS 1000 would probably be a bad thing, since they would honestly reveal the low sampling rate of the old games' sound, not to mention electrical noises generated inside the computer casing. Probably it's like playing 320x200 resolution using wide screen TV, the pixels are more visible that way. 🤣

Nonetheless, I think there are still plus sides of playing games through "true" audio speakers (as opposed to multimedia speakers). The sound is fuller, the bass is deeper, and the sound stage is better. I still remember the first time playing Privateer II using Velodyne subwoofer (as opposed to cheap "subs" that come with most multimedia speakers); when pressing the fire button, there were low pulsating sounds that accompanied the laser fire, that were previously unheard using "computer speakers". I didn't want to go back since then. 🤣

Maybe it's like playing 320x200 DOS games using wide screen TV. Yes, the pixels are more visible, but the immersion factor outweights the pixelation.

What worries me is that certain computer games rely on clipping to increase sound volume, like the explosion sound in F-117A intro animation. Thankfully my amp comes with protection circuit.

Now, I wonder how bass-heavy Umgah theme song in Star Control II would sound through my JBLs. 😎

Interesting... I have a pair of very nice Allison CD-7's just sitting there in the living room doing *nothing*, as well as a few nice amp/pre-amps and receivers I'm not using at all - NAD and ADS stuff. Damn! one more project....

We're spending our money buying sound generators like MT-32 or SC-55, but we (gamers) don't seem to bother much about loudspeakers. So far, Malik is the only fellow Vogoners I know who connect his gaming setup to a dedicated HT receiver.

Or maybe people just don't bother talking about it? It never even really crossed my mind to mention anything about my audio/speaker setup.

I usually run my computer stuff through one of two systems... I have a vintage Realistic receiver driving a set of vintage Fisher XP44b bookshelves at my desk, but I can also pipe stuff over to my main stereo across the room... that's got a Carver C1 preamp running a (fairly heavily modified) Fisher BA-6000 power amp through a stacked combo of Large Advent and Paradigm Atom speakers. Plus I've also got a dozen or so sets of headphones to choose from.

Old Thrashbarg wrote:

Or maybe people just don't bother talking about it? It never even really crossed my mind to mention anything about my audio/speaker setup.

this. I don't have anything fancy, but i've found the Klipsch 2.1 speakers REALLY are good for personal use. They are reasonably priced too: http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers Even more so when you realize that company sells speakers that cost $10,000 EACH. But to be honest, talking about speakers/amps is a horrible can of worms to open. There is ALWAYS someone that will reply that has sunk more into an audio setup than it takes to raise a kid from birth through college. He will ALWAYS ridicule others for not having 100% platinum gold whatever cables, so I think its a good thing that sound systems don't come up often.

keropi wrote:

I got a NOS remote control for the SC-55 thanks to the heads-up of a QuestStudios user 😁 😁 😁

I'm also over here as well. 😄

^ oh yeah 🤣
thanks again for the heads up! 😀

luckybob wrote:

...There is ALWAYS someone that will reply that has sunk more into an audio setup than it takes to raise a kid from birth through college. He will ALWAYS ridicule others for not having 100% platinum gold whatever cables...

haha! let's see if we can "flush him out";)

Talk about timing! just this weekend I got the Logitech Z5500 speakers for £100.00 just waiting on the leads to run them to the PC. They work real nice with my original xbox which is main reason I got these particular ones but my flat mates have been home so haven't really tested them out. They are more then enough for my shoebox room, in fact I have to completely rearrange next weekend the sub is 2 big to fit anywhere 🙁

PS the cables I ordered weren't any type of gold so I'm out of the running sadly

Old Thrashbarg wrote:

We're spending our money buying sound generators like MT-32 or SC-55, but we (gamers) don't seem to bother much about loudspeakers. So far, Malik is the only fellow Vogoners I know who connect his gaming setup to a dedicated HT receiver.

Or maybe people just don't bother talking about it? It never even really crossed my mind to mention anything about my audio/speaker setup.

It seems you are right; we are generally more interested to talk about 486 motherboards or Roland SC-55 than FirstWatt or Paradigm. I just wonder how many of us are interested in connecting their gaming rig to large home audio speakers (or studio monitors) instead of multimedia speakers. 😁

In the world of audio enthusiasts, it seems many people have finally accepted laptop as audio source, although they're using lossless audio format and external USB DAC to maintain sound quality. Ie, no MP3! I myself use mounted CD images to run my music.

Nonetheless, gaming with home audio speakers had been my interest since the old days of DOS. Long ago, my old DOS rig was connected to a Kenwood rack system. The treble was exceptional, and the sound of dropping water in Dune 1 intro sounded really good compared to popular multimedia speakers at that time. The Kenwood speakers, however, was quite lacking in bass department, although Star Control II still sounded pretty good.

The best part was the Atreides palace theme music from Dune. Once I pumped out the volume pretty loud when playing the game, and dad became interested. "What song is that?" he asked, and I explained that it was a music from computer game. Guess what, dad actually liked the song that he whistled the flute (or is it ocarina?) riff from time to time.

Another niceties of connecting your PC output to a rack system is game music recording. Well you see, it was DOS era, and recording digitally into hard drive while playing games was unheard of (hey, hard drives were merely 100 or 80 megabytes at that time!). So I put a blank audio cassette (yes, audio cassette! 😁 ) into the Kenwood tape deck, and recorded theme songs from various games. Of course, I was unable to extract the song, so I played the games just to get into a particular theme song I want, and hit the pause button before recording. I slowly increased the Sound Blaster Pro's volume knob, waited for about five minutes for the game to play (while in pause) just to get five minutes of the song, then slowly decreased the volume knob again to fade out the song. It was particularly tricky with Wing Commander, because in order to get the song I want, I had to put myself in a particular situation (the song changes according to the situation), and then quickly hit the pause button before the song changes again. But it was a very rewarding experience.

tincup wrote:

Interesting... I have a pair of very nice Allison CD-7's just sitting there in the living room doing *nothing*, as well as a few nice amp/pre-amps and receivers I'm not using at all - NAD and ADS stuff. Damn! one more project....

IIRC NAD emphasizes a lot in low frequency department - although What Hi Fi review lists it as negatives because it is not "neutral". But I think it would make a very nice gaming amplifier. Allison CD-7s are fantastic speakers too.

tincup wrote:

I usually run my computer stuff through one of two systems... I have a vintage Realistic receiver driving a set of vintage Fisher XP44b bookshelves at my desk, but I can also pipe stuff over to my main stereo across the room... that's got a Carver C1 preamp running a (fairly heavily modified) Fisher BA-6000 power amp through a stacked combo of Large Advent and Paradigm Atom speakers. Plus I've also got a dozen or so sets of headphones to choose from.

Ain't vintage stuff great? Okay, it's probably placebo, but I always prefer vintage big boxes instead of modern slim tower speakers.

luckybob wrote:

Old Thrashbarg wrote:

Or maybe people just don't bother talking about it? It never even really crossed my mind to mention anything about my audio/speaker setup.

this. I don't have anything fancy, but i've found the Klipsch 2.1 speakers REALLY are good for personal use. They are reasonably priced too: http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers

Klipsch Promedia were arguably the best multimedia speakers in its time. I still wonder why Will O'Neal prefers Creative Cambridge Soundworks instead of the Promedia in a 2002 issue of CGW. Personally, I thought the Promedia was better.

chinny22 wrote:

Talk about timing! just this weekend I got the Logitech Z5500 speakers for £100.00 just waiting on the leads to run them to the PC. They work real nice with my original xbox which is main reason I got these particular ones but my flat mates have been home so haven't really tested them out. They are more then enough for my shoebox room, in fact I have to completely rearrange next weekend the sub is 2 big to fit anywhere 🙁

PS the cables I ordered weren't any type of gold so I'm out of the running sadly

IIRC the Z5500 was a quite legendary gaming/HT multimedia speakers at that time. Anyway, what the worst would happen if you tested it when your flat mates were around? 😁

luckybob wrote:

Even more so when you realize that company sells speakers that cost $10,000 EACH. But to be honest, talking about speakers/amps is a horrible can of worms to open. There is ALWAYS someone that will reply that has sunk more into an audio setup than it takes to raise a kid from birth through college. He will ALWAYS ridicule others for not having 100% platinum gold whatever cables, so I think its a good thing that sound systems don't come up often.

Believe it or not, over-expensive components can open can of worms in audio enthusiasts forum as well, particularly "audiophile vs pro audio" debate (pro audio is cheaper with no less quality, and some people argue that studio monitors are better than the more expensive audiophile speakers). Also, there are always people with more money than knowledge. It seems such people are also shunned among audio enthusiast community. It also seems that DIY products like Dayton is getting more and more respect among audio enthusiasts.

Me, I tend to be pragmatic. Why buy Krell when Crown can do the job nice? Why should one buy expensive, ridiculously high-powered class A amplifier to pump a subwoofer when a cheaper, equally high-powered class D amplifier can do the job fine? Also, I don't give a damn about loudspeaker's "collectible value" (like consecutive serial numbers and such). What's important is the sound. Originally, I was interested to replace dad's missing JBL 4311s (typical "west coast sound" I grew up with) - which also happens to have high "collectible values" since the model marked the Harman's JBL era where JBL dethroned Altec in studio monitor market. But after some listening tests, it turned out the 120Ti has better, deeper, and more solid bass, so I bought the 120Ti instead (although I was initially put off by the treble).

But hell, pragmatic I am, I'm still dreaming to own a pair of JBL Everest DD55000 someday....

....and that's for mains only. I would still need JBL 4355 for front-surround, JBL L300 summit for rear-surround, and a pair of Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer for stereo LF reproduction. All connected to my vintage DOS/Windows 98 gaming rigs through multi-channel source selector, Krell HT receiver, and myriads of ultra-powered class-A amplifiers. Anyway, what is this "kid's college fund" people are talking about?

*runs away*

😁

Didn't buy, but I found an LG Flatron L196WTWQ-BF monitor that works fine. It's only 19" and 1440x900 max resolution but I have systems to use it with that don't require larger a screen or more pixels.

I wanted one of these bad boys so badly when they came out, but they were just too expensive. Patience is a virtue as they say, this one cost me 32 bucks.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Well, I just wonder though. We're spending our money buying sound generators like MT-32 or SC-55, but we (gamers) don't seem to bother much about loudspeakers. So far, Malik is the only fellow Vogoners I know who connect his gaming setup to a dedicated HT receiver. Imagine playing WarCraft III through a home theater setup. 😀

My day-to-day PC is running via Kimber Cable interconnects to a SM Pro Audio Nano Patch+ passive attenuator to a pair of Alesis monitors. Not quite high-end, but loads better and more linear than any computer speaker.
Currently my P3 box is hooked up to my Yamaha surround receiver, running DynAudio Audience 52SE front speakers, DynAudio Audience 122C center channel and PSB Alpha B rear speakers. Delivering low frequencies is one Velodyne CHT-10Q subwoofer.

I bother about loudspeakers 😉

LunarG wrote:

My day-to-day PC is running via Kimber Cable interconnects to a SM Pro Audio Nano Patch+ passive attenuator to a pair of Alesis monitors. Not quite high-end, but loads better and more linear than any computer speaker.

Well especially during the early SB era; computer speakers were flimsy boxes that don't say much about sound quality. It was when computer sound was new (unless you're talking about Amiga), so it seems computer speakers were made with "as long as it sounds" concept. Fortunately dad donated his rack system. 😁

LunarG wrote:

Currently my P3 box is hooked up to my Yamaha surround receiver, running DynAudio Audience 52SE front speakers, DynAudio Audience 122C center channel and PSB Alpha B rear speakers. Delivering low frequencies is one Velodyne CHT-10Q subwoofer.

I bother about loudspeakers 😉

Turned out there are quite many of us who use home audio speakers. 😀
Malik: Sony, Aiwa, and Phillips (well he's using 7.1 receivers, so he is practically surrounded by speakers)
Wolvie: Dali 7a
You: Alesis
Old Thrashbarg: Large Advent and Paradigm Atom
Me: vintage Harley-David... I mean, JBL.

tincup, when are you going to connect your Allison CD-7 to your PC? 😁

Anyway, in this thread, I confessed that I buy old hardware out of practicality. What's more important is the games, and my purchase is strictly based on my gaming needs (3dfx, GeForce 6800 because it runs on Win98, Aureal 3D sound cards, and the likes).

But when it goes to sound, I always subjectively prefer vintage amplifiers and speakers. I know many modern stuff sound great, like Dali and FirstWatt, but dunno, it seems many modern stuff sound "dry" compared to vintage ones, although they're arguably more accurate.

badmojo wrote:

I wanted one of these bad boys so badly when they came out, but they were just too expensive. Patience is a virtue as they say, […]
Show full quote

I wanted one of these bad boys so badly when they came out, but they were just too expensive. Patience is a virtue as they say, this one cost me 32 bucks.

IIRC there is a driver that allows GeForce 8800 to run on Win98 SE, or is it GeForce 7900?

EDIT: confirmed, there IS a GeForce 8 series driver for Windows 98 SE. Imagine playing Jane's USAF or Jane's F/A-18 with that card. 😳

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

badmojo wrote:

I wanted one of these bad boys so badly when they came out, but they were just too expensive. Patience is a virtue as they say, […]
Show full quote

I wanted one of these bad boys so badly when they came out, but they were just too expensive. Patience is a virtue as they say, this one cost me 32 bucks.

IIRC there is a driver that allows GeForce 8800 to run on Win98 SE, or is it GeForce 7900?

EDIT: confirmed, there IS a GeForce 8 series driver for Windows 98 SE. Imagine playing Jane's USAF or Jane's F/A-18 with that card. 😳

Since when is there a GeForce 8 driver for Windows 98? GeForce 6 has always been as it good as it gets under Windows 98 if you're an nVidia fan. Anything in GeForce 7 or 8 that might be hackable would have to be AGP or PCI and there aren't many cards that fit that description and certainly not anything from the 8800 series.

Edit: I KNOW the guy in the linked thread is full of sh*t because he says PCIe cards work under Windows 98SE/ME and that is patently IMPOSSIBLE. You can't make Windows98SE/ME support a technology that it never did with just a video card driver. It would require extensive patching of the operating system itself.

Nice card! It was king of the hill for such a long time.

I also never got it because it was way to expensive, got a 8800GT out when it was launched. That was also an awesome card.

Oh man, we all drooled on the 8800 GTX. I managed to get one a couple of months ago, it doesn't work but I don't care, I keep in my library so that I can see it 😀.
It reminds me of older times 😀

Actually some recent games still run with good settings/resolutions on that card. Quite different from older generations where even high end cards got obsolete after 1-2 years.