VOGONS


Modern graphics on a 486

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Reply 200 of 218, by Qbcd

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-06-12, 15:34:

Same board.

Asus PVI-486SP3? Great, thank you! Okay, I'll get an NV18 or NV17 chip then, pretty good odds either will work. Really hard to find PCI versions, so might take a while. I'll report back.

Reply 201 of 218, by Qbcd

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Can someone please elaborate on why any PCI card, even a GT 610, wouldn't boot in a 486 board? Is the issue with the newer PCI spec that isn't supported by the chipset? Do we know exactly what's causing an issue with newer cards, so we can determine the fastest possible card for each chipset w/o necessarily having to test everything.

Reply 203 of 218, by feipoa

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Particularly curious was that a Geforce2 would function properly but a TNT2 M64 wouldn't even show a power-on screen.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 204 of 218, by Tiido

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I'm pretty sure some video BIOSes want Pentium or newer instructions, but it isn't something I have ever tried to verify.

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Reply 205 of 218, by Qbcd

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The search for a GeForce4 MX PCI continues, so far it's all $100+ that I've found... 🙁 Has anyone tried a 5200 PCI in a SiS 496/497, preferably with a POD? I can get that for $20.

feipoa wrote on 2020-06-19, 01:55:

Particularly curious was that a Geforce2 would function properly but a TNT2 M64 wouldn't even show a power-on screen.

Indeed... I wish there was a way to figure out the reason. Did you ever try the TNT2 in a SiS 496/497 by the way? I only see results for UMC on the front page.

Reply 209 of 218, by The Serpent Rider

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Quadro 4 NVS 100 works at least on some 486 boards. But GeForce 4 MX is semi-useless on 486. Drivers are too new to support OpenGL games, so stuff like GLQuake is out of the question.

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Reply 210 of 218, by feipoa

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I used to have my MB-8433UUD system setup with a POD-100 and a GF2MX. It ran opengl pretty well considering it is a socket 3 board.

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Reply 212 of 218, by feipoa

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Nope, it's a socket 3. For some people, that's all that matters. For others, the CPU must be 486 architecture. For some, a 486 can't have PCI. Some only want period correct, etc... Whatever floats you boat man.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 213 of 218, by douglar

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Qbcd wrote on 2020-06-18, 23:27:

Can someone please elaborate on why any PCI card, even a GT 610, wouldn't boot in a 486 board? Is the issue with the newer PCI spec that isn't supported by the chipset? Do we know exactly what's causing an issue with newer cards, so we can determine the fastest possible card for each chipset w/o necessarily having to test everything.

I spent some time last winter with the PCI cards 486-PCI motherboards that I had available to see if there was a clear tell for what would work.

Cards: S3 Trio64V+ (1996) Tseng 4000w32p (1996) , Matrox Mystique PCI (1997) , Permedia 2 (1998), MX4000 (2003), Radeon 9250 (2004), Radeon x1300 (2005)
Mobos: FIC 486 VIP (Via82C505) & Gateway BAT4IP3 (420EX) Both 1994. Gateway has a power plug for extra PCI power.

The stuff from the 90's would work with the 486's, the stuff from the 00's didn't stop the computers from booting, but wouldn't generate a VGA signal.

Reply 214 of 218, by pentiumspeed

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Certain cards will not initialize on unsupported motherboards at boot up. I had that happen to a board which was ATX micronics socket 7 based on 430HX. I purchased later one, intel made motherboard based on 43oTX chipset and can initialize all the cards I throw at it.

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Reply 215 of 218, by The Serpent Rider

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Intel's own AN430HX works with everything. Any ATX board should work too in theory, because they support PCI 3.3v, unlike most AT boards.

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Reply 216 of 218, by NJRoadfan

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-09-13, 02:57:

Intel's own AN430HX works with everything. Any ATX board should work too in theory, because they support PCI 3.3v, unlike most AT boards.

Its irreverent in this case. "3.3V" and "5V" PCI cards refers to SIGNALING voltage, not the actual power required to run the card. Signaling voltage is what the address and data lines use to represent 0s and 1s on the bus. All Baby-AT PCI motherboards have an onboard VRM to provide the necessary 3.3V power supply rails to power cards themselves (ATX boards get it from the power supply). That same VRM likely provides power to the CPU socket as well.

Just to clarify, PCI cards come in three varieties, 5V (notch towards the rear of the slot), 3.3V (notch towards the front of the slot/back of the computer), and universal with two notches. Almost all conventional PCI slots are 5V signaling. You really only see 3.3V signaling only slots on PCI-X compatible boards since that standard dictated it fro m the start. The only widespread application of a 3.3V conventional PCI was found in the Blue&White Power Mac G3/Yikes G4, which used such a slot for its dedicated 66Mhz PCI ATI video card.

Reply 217 of 218, by The Serpent Rider

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All Baby-AT PCI motherboards have an onboard VRM to provide the necessary 3.3V power supply rails to power cards themselves

Early Pentium motherboards usually don't have it (including first gen 430HX b0ards). And 486 PCI boards never had it.

That same VRM likely provides power to the CPU socket as well.

AFAIK - no. AT boards use separate VRM for that or additional power connector for PCI.

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Reply 218 of 218, by pentiumspeed

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Then sounds like poorly done BIOS hampered mine when I had Micronics HX ATX motherboard out checking out PCI video cards.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.