Modern graphics on a 486

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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-17 @ 18:46

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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-17 @ 21:18

With a Cyrix 5x86-133 and Voodoo3, MDK2 demo at 640x480 was getting in the 3-4 fps range with Win95c. Am I supposed to install the GLSetup? From the installation instructions, I was under the impression that I only run that if I don't have OpenGL drivers installed already.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby leileilol » 2014-10-17 @ 22:58

GLSetup is intended for lazy people that don't bother updating their pre-May99 drivers to get Q3 to work (it was made for those who flooded brian hook's inbox complaining q3test doesn't work on voodoo). If you install GLSetup you will get an outdated GL ICD installed, so please don't install GLSetup
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-17 @ 23:08

I did not. So it seems MDK2 is not really playable. The original MDK plays great though, as does GLQuake. What other accelerated Windows games might be in the same league as GLQuake and play similarly? Tomb Raider? Descent? Descent II?

I did not see a target when I turned the gun off in GLQuake, so I felt it played better with the gun enabled. Turning off the gun yields 25.5 fps with sound on, as opposed to 24.0 fps.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby leileilol » 2014-10-17 @ 23:21

Battlezone
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-18 @ 03:22

Battlezone plays well enough, but is there any way to check the frame rate? It does not feel as smooth as GLQuake.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-18 @ 09:25

Descent with the 3dfx patch plays really well at 800x600. As does MDK - D3D and MDK - 3dfx. Need for Speed II and Mechwarrior 3 didn't play all that well. The original DOS Tomb Raider plays well, but I find the 320x240 resolution unbearable.

Is Descent II with the 3dfx patch a good match for GLQuake and Battlezone in terms of CPU load?

Any other accelerated games to make my 486 hurt, but still yield 23-30 fps?
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-18 @ 10:20

Try an accelerated version of Tomb Raider. The 3dfx one runs at 640x480.
You could also try Tomb Raider 2 which has hardware acceleration via Direct3D out of the box.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby vetz » 2014-10-18 @ 10:49

Try Screamer II/Rally, Battle Arena Toshinden, Whiplash
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby leileilol » 2014-10-18 @ 18:53

I think he's looking for games to compare with the Geforce (modern video cards), not Glide exclusive games.
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-18 @ 20:38

I am wanting to see how far I can stretch this old motherboard and CPU by virtue of a "modern" graphics card. I never really played computer games in my youth, so I am a bit of a novice in this area, but I have identified the following, mostly 3D, games as popular. Which of these games do you think would yield 23 fps or more on a Cyrix 5x86-133 w/Voodoo3 or an Am5x86-160 w/GF2?

1994: Wing Commander III, Doom, Doom II, Raptor: Call of the Shadows, Magic Carpet

1995: MechWarrior 2, Destruction Derby, Magic Carpet II, Terminal Velocity, Descent, Warcraft II, Hexen

1996: Duke Nukem 3D, Final Doom, Diablo, Tomb Raider, Quake, Forumla One Grand Prix, Super Stardust, Wing Commander IV, Magic Carpet II, Destruction Derby, Rise of the Triad: Dark War, X-wing, Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares, Descent II

1997: MDK, Quake II, Hexen II, Grand Theft Auto, Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II, Tomb Raider II, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Need for Speed II, Interstate '76, Total Annihilation, X-COM: Apocalypse, Command & Conquer, Carmageddon, Moto Racer, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Outlaws, Shadow Warrior, Imperium Galactica, Turok: Dinosaur Hunter

1998: Half-Life, Tomb Raider III, Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, Descent: FreeSpace – The Great War, Battlezone, Forsaken, Unreal, Starcraft


Descent w/3dfx patch yields 45-60 fps in NT4 at 800x600.
Last edited by feipoa on 2014-10-19 @ 22:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby sliderider » 2014-10-19 @ 18:05

I think Half Life is going to be painful to play, if it runs at all.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-19 @ 21:57

sliderider wrote:I think Half Life is going to be painful to play, if it runs at all.

But could make for a good stability test if it runs.

I don't have much hope for playable fast paced 1998 games on these systems, but I could be surprised. Battlezone seemed to play acceptably.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby vetz » 2014-10-19 @ 22:07

feipoa wrote:I am wanting to see how far I can stretch this old motherboard and CPU by virtue of a "modern" graphics card. I never really played computer games in my youth, so I am a bit of a novice in this area, but I have identified the following, mostly 3D, games as popular. Which of these games do you think would yield 23 fps or more on a Cyrix 5x86-133 w/Voodoo3 or an Am5x86-160 w/GF2?

1994: Wing Commander III, Doom, Doom II, Raptor: Call of the Shadows, Magic Carpet [Yes to all, but not SVGA resolution in Magic Carpet]

1995: MechWarrior 2, Destruction Derby, Magic Carpet II, Terminal Velocity, Descent [Yes to all, but not SVGA resolution in Magic Carpet. SVGA in Terminal Velocity might be playable same with DOS version of Mechwarrior 2. If you use 3DFX acceleration with Descent it will run fine. Forget about 3DFX version of Mechwarrior 2, it has a minimum requirement of Pentium 120 and I recommend using a Pentium 166+ on the game]

1996: Duke Nukem 3D, Final Doom, Diablo, Tomb Raider, Quake, Forumla One Grand Prix, Super Stardust, Wing Commander IV, Magic Carpet II, Destruction Derby, Rise of the Triad: Dark War, X-wing, Master of Orion II: Battle at Antares, Descent II [Yes to all, SVGA in Duke Nukem 3D should be playable I believe. 3DFX version of Descent II, Quake, Tomb Raider should all be possible.]

1997: MDK, Quake II, Hexen II, Grand Theft Auto, Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II, Tomb Raider II, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Need for Speed II, Interstate '76, Total Annihilation, X-COM: Apocalypse, Command & Conquer, Carmageddon, Moto Racer, Wing Commander: Prophecy, Outlaws, Shadow Warrior, Imperium Galactica, Turok: Dinosaur Hunter [Yes to 3DFX version of MDK, Hexen II, GTA, Dark Forces II, Tomb Raider II, Moto Racer, Shadow Warrior. Yes to software games X-COM, Command & Conquer, Imperium Galactica. No to Wing Commander, Need for Speed II, Interstate 76, TA, Outlaws and certainly not Turok and Quake II]

1998: Half-Life, Tomb Raider III, Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, Descent: FreeSpace – The Great War, Battlezone, Forsaken, Unreal, Starcraft [Starcraft might run well if not so many enemies on screen. Battlezone, Tomb Raider III and Forsaken maybe. Forget about Turok 2, Half-Life, Descent and Unreal]


Descent w/3dfx patch yields 45-60 fps in NT4 at 800x600.


Here are my guesses.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-19 @ 22:23

I will test them all if I can. Finding them is the tricky part. I have two cased systems for the test:

Biostar MB-8433UUD - IBM 5x86-133/2x - 128 MB RAM - 1024 K cache - Matrox G200 16MB - AWE64G - Ultra2 SCSI - Win95c/NT4

DTK PKM-0033S - Cyrix 5x86-133/4x - 128 MB RAM - 1024 K cache - Voodoo3 3000 16 MB - AWE64G - Ultra2 SCSI - Win95c/NT4

The Voodoo3 doesn't work in the Biostar board. The Rage 128 VR doesn't work in the Biostar board w/NT4, hence the Matrox G200. The Matrox G200 driver which works with a 486 doesn't have proper OpenGL support, so I'll need to find wrappers for the OpenGL games. Alternately, are any of those games Direct3D accelerated?

I will retest with the AMD Am5x86-160 and GF2 when I get around to casing the parts.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby vetz » 2014-10-19 @ 22:29

Dark Forces II, Descent: FreeSpace – The Great War, Battlezone, Tomb Raider II/III, Forsaken, Moto Racer and Outlaws all Direct3D only

I've played Need for Speed II: SE on my Socket 4 system (Pentium Overdrive 133 with Canopus Pure3D Voodoo Graphics). Its playable, but not good enough IMO. Could perhaps work better with the Voodoo3. Glide only, so no use with GF2.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby feipoa » 2014-10-20 @ 04:55

Thanks for your input. I'll find out what plays and what does not soon enough.

DoomGL for Doom 1 and Doom 2 play fine on the system w/Voodoo3, as do Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider Unfinished Business w/3dfx patch.

To play Tomb Raider II in NT4, you need to use DX5. It works, however it did not allow for accelerated graphics like it did in Win95c. Without accelerated graphics the game is too slow.

Is there a Tomb Raider patch for a Matrox G200? There is one for the Mystique, but I'm having trouble locating one for the G200.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby idspispopd » 2014-10-20 @ 09:27

DoomGL is a newer source port so I wouldn't count that as a 1994 game.
NT4 doesn't support hardware accelerated Direct3D. I've read you can run software rendered Direct3D, and of course you can get hardware accelerated OpenGL if your card has drivers for that.
Matrox MSI only works for first Mystique and (for most games) Mystique 220. G200 is newer and only supports Direct3D and OpenGL, no proprietary APIs,

BTW, you do realize that a lot of the games you listed will not profit from either the card you have or any 3D accelerator?
See
viewtopic.php?t=33483 (proprietary 3D APIs)
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/w ... c,5/ti,13/ (OpenGL)
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/w ... c,5/ti,52/ (Direct3D)

No acceleration at all for Wing Commander III, Doom, Doom II, Raptor: Call of the Shadows, (...), Duke Nukem 3D
Magic Carpet Plus has an accelerated version for 3D Blaster CGL
MechWarrior 2 has versions for several accelerators, but the Glide version won't run on a Voodoo3 (maybe with a wrapper DLL?), Titanium Edition does Direct3D.
Terminal Velocity only has an S3D port.

Unreal doesn't even run good on a fast Pentium, you'll want a P3. A Voodoo3 would be a good choice, though.
Last edited by idspispopd on 2014-10-21 @ 11:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby vetz » 2014-10-20 @ 17:44

idspispopd is correct and well informed :) If you're wondering if a game has a 3D port then my thread and nglide's compatibility page is a good way to start. For Direct3D & OpenGL its a bit more tricky, but the lists idspispopd linked to at Mobygames is a start, but they are not complete like the other lists.

I hope the games you listed you knew some of them was software only? I answered with that in mind :)
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Re: Modern graphics on a 486

Postby leileilol » 2014-10-20 @ 18:28

Outlaws only had Direct3D in a very late patch (supports Glide before that) and Freespace IIRC also had a Glide driver in addition to Direct3D.


Disregard any accelerated Doom port no matter how much they boast. They're freaky (sector column renderer->polygons=HACK HACK HACK) and aren't even very legacy hardware compatible (i.e. couldn't get ANY to start on PowerVR PCX2)
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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