Reserved for conclusions, benchmark summarys and the like

Someone suggested a performance comparison between diffrent K7 and K8 cores so I will make a list with SuperPi 1m times @~2.4 ghz.
I will also make a SuperPi 1m top list. and a 3dmark 2001 toplist.

Something about rules were also mentioned and that it would not be fair to use later Intel chipsets when benching socket 775 Pentium 4/D CPUs

List of pre Core 2 Duo Windows XP era CPUs and Chipsets
Some simplifications were made.

Intel
CPUs: Pentium 4, Pentium D and other NetBurst CPUs.
Chipsets: i8.xx, i915P, i925X(E), i955X, i945P, i975X, Nvidia 5xx and all crappy SiS and VIA chipsets.

AMD
CPUs: Socket A, socket 754 and socket 939 CPUs.
Chipsets: All

If you have a socket A, socket 754 or socket 939 system post your Super Pi times @ max stable clock and if possible @ 2.4 ghz.
If you have an Intel system just post the best time you can manage with stable clocks or defualt clocks if you so prefer.

SuperPi 1m AMD ~2.4 ghz

37s 2397.6 Turion ML32, 512kb rev: SH8-E5 Mem: 266 single ch. 2.5 4 4 8 2T nForce 410

38s 2402.5 Sempron 2800+ 256kb rev: DH-E6 Mem: 240 single ch. 2.5 3 3 8 2T nForce 410

38s 2394.8 Athlon 64 3700+ 1mb rev: SH7-CG Mem: 200 single ch. 3 3 3 8 1T SiS 755

41s 2455.5 Athlon XP 2500+ 512kb Barton Mem: 223 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 8 1T nForce2

44s 2405.6 Athlon XP 2400+ 256kb Thoroughbred B Mem: 200 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 11 1T nForce2

SuperPi 1m Intel and AMD Top List

27s 4717.7 Pentium D 945 4mb Presler Mem: 277 dual ch. 3 3 3 6 i975X

28s 4507.6 Pentium 4 670 2mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 356* dual ch. 4 4 4 12 i925XE

28s 3003.2 Athlon 64 3500+ 512kb rev: DH-E6 Mem: 273 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 8 1T nForce4

29s 2933.4 Athlon 64 3700+ 1mb rev: SH-E4 Mem: 266 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 8 1T nForce4

30s 4302.8 Pentium 4 570 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 377 dual ch. 4 4 4 12 i975X

30s 4207.1 Pentium 4 630 2mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 280 dual ch. 3 3 3 8 i975X

30s 4205.3 Pentium 4 521 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 300 dual ch. 3 3 3 8 i975X

31s 4005.4 Pentium D 840 2mb Smithfield Mem: 500 dual ch. 5 5 5 15 i975X

35s 3750.5 Pentium 4 3.0E 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 250 dual ch. 3 3 3 8 i865P

36s 2506.8 Turion ML32, 512kb rev: SH8-E5 Mem: 278.5 single ch. 2.5 4 4 8 2T nForce 410

38s 3825.1 Pentium 4 3.4C 512kb Northwood [HT on] Mem: 225 dual ch. 2.5 4 4 8 i875P

38s 2402.5 Sempron 2800+ 256kb rev: DH-E6 Mem: 240 single ch. 2.5 3 3 8 2T nForce 410

41s 2455.5 Athlon XP 2500+ 512kb Barton Mem: 223 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 8 1T nForce2

43s 3450.0 Pentium 4 3.06 512kb Northwood [HT on] Mem: 200 single ch. 2 2 2 8 i845PE

44s 2405.6 Athlon XP 2400+ 256kb Thoroughbred B Mem: 200 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 11 1T nForce2

45s 3151.0 Pentium 4 3.0E 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 210 single ch. 2.5 3 3 6 1T VIA P4M890

*CPU-Z detects the memory speed incorrectly.

3dmark 2001 Top List with stock Geforce 7900 GTX

36552 3003.2 Athlon 64 3500+ 512kb rev: DH-E6 Mem: 273 dual ch. 2.5 4 4 8 1T nForce4 Geforce 7900 GTX

35421 4717.3 Pentium D 945 4mb Presler Mem: 277 dual ch. 3 3 3 6 i975X Geforce 7900 GTX

34771 2933.4 Athlon 64 3700+ 1mb rev: SH-E4 Mem: 266 dual ch. 2.5 3 3 8 1T nForce4 Geforce 7900 GTX

31064 4405.2 Pentium 4 670 2mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 315 dual ch. 3 3 3 8 i925XE Geforce 7900 GTX

30195 4005.0 Pentium D 840 2mb Smithfield Mem: 500 dual ch. 5 5 5 15 i975X Geforce 7900 GTX

29611 4206.7 Pentium 4 630 2mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 280 dual ch. 3 3 3 8 i975X Geforce 7900 GTX

28081 4303.1 Pentium 4 570 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 377 dual ch. 4 4 4 12 i975X Geforce 7900 GTX

28075 4205.2 Pentium 4 521 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 300 dual ch. 3 3 3 8 i975X Geforce 7900 GTX

28026 2506.8 Turion ML32, 512kb rev: SH8-E5 Mem: 278.5 single ch. 2.5 4 4 8 2T nForce 410 Geforce 7900 GTX

25257 2402.5 Sempron 2800+ 256kb rev: DH-E6 Mem: 240 single ch. 2.5 3 3 8 2T nForce 410 Geforce 7900 GTX

20590 3151.0 Pentium 4 3.0E 1mb Prescott [HT on] Mem: 210 single ch. 2.5 3 3 6 1T VIA P4M890 Geforce 7900 GTX

3dmark 2001 Top List with other Video Cards

I will start with playing around a bit with Socket 754.

This is the motherboard I will not use.
I bought it on Ebay "Tested OK". The image was too small for me to get a good look.
Never trust Ebay sellers... Can you find the two faults with this motherboard ? 😀
(Its not the "cooler mounting cage" or the battery)

This is the motherboard I will use.
Gigabyte K8N51GMF

This is the CPU
Lancaster Turion 64 ML-32 1800mhz 512kb cache
Its basically a Venice socket 754 Athlon 64 2800+ without heat spreader and with a diffrent name.

The Geforce 7900GTX will be a good video card to start off with

My testbench

That's easy.. the board has no ATX power plug 😁

Is that a DFI? that thing makes me slobber. i cannot help it.

Wanna sell to me? what is the 2nd flaw other than the missing atx power connector?
Do you have the IO shield?

Te be honest, i like to ditch any single core netburst cpu, just bcause netburst sux.
I think it is a disgracefull cpu from intel, to made people think they bought fast processors.
And instead they bought a disguised high latency central heating system with clock numbers that didn't make sence and AMD had to continue to use the PR rating to be sure people still bought their processors too.
What did intel think back then that those P4 numbers of clock frequency that AMD couldn't match would make them bankrupt and they would rule the world.
@sses.

Noth!ng against core family though, maybe only the model codes made everything a bit stranger also and not that these days are any clearer when buying a new type cpu.

Btw in turns of retro i would prefer AGP, and a high end card like HD3850 or a XFX AGP 7950GT, GF6800's and X8x0, X1950xxx also fine.
And 2GB of ram at highest clock, minumum of 250Mhz DDR500 preferably at CAS2.5 or some nice TCCD's at 300Mhz.
About overclocking, whenever there is a system something would get out of stock speeds, but what is stock really it is all about testing and safe margins.

Back in the pentium 1 and pre pentium day things were too easy, only had to check family type and clock it would run at to get around the same average performance. things get too complicated these days.

Half-Saint wrote:

That's easy.. the board has no ATX power plug 😁

Yes that is one of the two things wrong with the board.
How do you manage to damage a board like that?
Is there people stupid enough to just grab the cables and pull for all its worth?

JaNoZ wrote:

Is that a DFI? that thing makes me slobber. i cannot help it. […]
Show full quote

Is that a DFI? that thing makes me slobber. i cannot help it.

Wanna sell to me? what is the 2nd flaw other than the missing atx power connector?
Do you have the IO shield?

Back in the pentium 1 and pre pentium day things were too easy, only had to check family type and clock it would run at to get around the same average performance. things get too complicated these days.

I think I will try to fix the board. The other flaw is a bit hard to spot in this low res picture but im sure someone will 😁
Back in the day I wanted a DFI board but I had another working socket 754 board and bought an Asus socket 939 board instead of the DFI when I upgraded.
The worst part is that I acually bought 3 "Tested OK" DFI boards from the same Ebay seller... this is the board with the least faults...

The performace back in the day indeed favored K8 compared to NetBurst but im not 100% sure its still the case.
Having support for newer SSE standards could tip the scales in favor of the P4 and Pentium D.

SSE??? whats that, who needs Super Sux Enhancements.

Is there a cap missing next to the memory slots on the DFI board?

JaNoZ wrote:

SSE??? whats that, who needs Super Sux Enhancements.

I dont really know but I bet some programs benefit from it otherwise it would have been a waste designing SSE in the first place.

Aideka wrote:

Is there a cap missing next to the memory slots on the DFI board?

I hope not but you are getting close.

I have managed to install Windows XP and the socket 754 system is now online!

So far I have noticed that Winbond BH-5 memory does not work at 2.5V even @ 200 mhz and CAS 2.5. With 2.8V everything is fine.
My motherboard dosnt know what voltage to give a Turion so it gives it ~1.5V instead of ~1.3V. That dosnt matter much since im not aiming for low power usage.

Okay sse might be usefull somehow, but also programs that used them were already using outdated sse revisions.
It seems to me all it does is making previous revisions of cpu's go outdated and obsolete before they really need to and creating a whole bunch of incompatibility issues of even same generation processors.

Seems a little more marketing to me. Otherwise they would build one big usefull package instead of new revisions and renumberings each and every quarter of a year.

I can still remember they stated mmx could speed. things up to 60% of performance wise. That would indeed have been interesting
The speed increase was jack and sxxx. and they could have better focusing on how to improve the ipc. I will rather give any credit to the guys behind the pentium pro.
But now the gain was to have previous generation cpu to become incompatible because software written for mmx was rarely compatible to non mmx cpu's.
Makes you want to buy new stuff when new software comes out, but i love to still use the older stuff.

I think I will try to fix the board. The other flaw is a bit hard to spot in this low res picture but im sure someone will

You mean the bulged cap up near the top corner of the CPU socket? Those look like Chemicon KZG, too, meaning that they'll all need to be replaced. 🙁

Old Thrashbarg wrote:

I think I will try to fix the board. The other flaw is a bit hard to spot in this low res picture but im sure someone will

You mean the bulged cap up near the top corner of the CPU socket? Those look like Chemicon KZG, too, meaning that they'll all need to be replaced. 🙁

Bingo!

I would say there is a missing cap .

Aideka wrote:

I would say there is a missing cap.

You are probably right although all places for caps are not always used in every revision of a board 😀
So make that 3 faults 😁

You should see the other two boards. Not a single non bulging cap between them 😀
[edit] I just checked the boards. I must have remembered wrong. One of the boards has bad caps but the other has lots of scratches and misses the bios chip but the caps are OK![/edit]
[edit]I though that there was something with the caps on the third board aswell. I was right one is loose 😀 [/edit]

I have a problem to report.

Windows XP SP2 and Flash 10 and 11 does not want to work correctly with YouTube.
I will update Windows to SP3 to see if that fixes the issue.
I will upgrade from 512mb to 1gb memory aswell since SP3 needs more memory.

[edit] I will run some benchmarks before I upgrade to SP3 and 1gb memory. Running them as I write this. [/edit]

Those DFI mobo's how much do they go for, bulged caps included?

JaNoZ wrote:

Those DFI mobo's how much do they go for, bulged caps included?

I paid ~200kr = ~20 euros + shipping for the first s754 board on "Swedish Ebay" got the one pictured above but as I wrote it was sold as "Tested OK". I complained got a second one worse than the first. I complained again and got a socket 939!? board that was just as bad and missing the bios chip as a bonus. Then I gave up but diddnt rate the seller. The dumpster diver selling these boards (and many more) obviously could not tell a working board from a hamster. I am curious where he found them though. This was back in 2010 or 2011.

No idea what they normally go for on international Ebay if they are in good condition.

Some benchmarks

3dmark 2001

3dmark 2003

3dmark 2005

3dmark 2006

SuperPi 1m

Its not that bad for a single core 1800 mhz CPU
I will overclock the CPU too see how much of an improvement that can bring.
For some reason this board or CPU dislikes the 1T memory setting. At least with this memory module.

Skyscraper wrote:

... Are these platforms retro? ... When will they become retro? ...

Don't know and don't care. If you enjoy tinkering with it any non-bleeding-edge hardware is 'retro' in my book 😀 .

TELVM wrote:

Skyscraper wrote:

... Are these platforms retro? ... When will they become retro? ...

Don't know and don't care. If you enjoy tinkering with it any non-bleeding-edge hardware is 'retro' in my book 😀 .

I cant argue with that.
But does that make the hardware retro?
Others suggested that as long as people use these platforms for surfing the net and such they cant be retro 😀

Overclocking improved things!
I diddnt bother with trying to find the maximum stable frequency. 2600 mhz crashed 3dmark 2006 so I settled for 2500 mhz.
It could be that the memory wont clock higher than 278 mhz @2.8V since BH-5 likes voltage. And BH-5 wont work with Cas3.
Running memory on a divider is a possibility but I dont think I would gain performace even if I could get the CPU a little bit higher.

3dmark 2001

3dmark 2003

3dmark 2005

3dmark 2006

SuperPi 1m

Now its time to upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 3 to see if that solves the Flash issues.
I will also upgrade to 1gb memory and change the video card to a Geforce 9500 GT to see how it compares to the 7900GTX.

Youre really lucky to get these dfi boards even if broken for that amount of money and hassle with ebay.
You can revive them to proper operation.

JaNoZ wrote:

Youre really lucky to get these dfi boards even if broken for that amount of money and hassle with ebay.
You can revive them to proper operation.

Swedish Ebay is called Tradera (owned by Ebay) and dosnt work like the global Ebay.
Once you bought something you deal directly with the seller.
You get his address, his email and his phone number so the sellers cant hide.
They also do not want to get bad ratings so even the "strange" sellers are mostly agreeable.

So I am not really that happy with my 3 broken boards but yes at least both socket 754 boards are salvable.
The socket 939 board is a maybe because its scratched. I have seen boards work with terrible scratches and broken traces though.
I am sure taking my time getting to fixing them.

I think I will try to get the other DFI socket 754 board to post tomorrow.
Only thing wrong with it as far as I can see is bad caps around the CPU socket.
It even has that missing cap near the memory slots 😀
Perhaps it will work with a slow Sempron 2600+.