VOGONS


Reply 1480 of 27362, by Skyscraper

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After switching CPU to an unlocked PII Deschutes that would do higher clock speeds than the Klamath I could compare the SuperPi 1M times to my own older scores with another board. The Gigabyte BX2000+ boards result is 3% slower than the result with one of my other BX motherboards at the same speed. 3% is not much, it could be some memory timing beyond my control or the bloat I have running. In some other benchmarks such as CPUmark99 this system seems to be slightly faster so all in all the boards performance seems fine.

I did also bench both the Klamath and the Deschutes at 3.5x100 MHz, the results were identical in Q1 and Q2 wihile the Klamath won SuperPi with 2 seconds and the Deschutes got 1-2 FPS extra in Q3 and Unreal

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 1481 of 27362, by Skyscraper

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The mystery with the Pentium II and SuperPi scores that diddnt add up is now solved! Its the CPUs L2 cache latency that differs from CPU to CPU and that affects the SuperPi scores several percent.

Not even CPUs with the same core stepping and speed grade are guaranteed to perform exactly the same. It seems different FABs used different cache chips even for CPUs with the same speed and stepping. That is at least the only reason I can see for identical CPUs made different weeks in different FABs performing slightly diffrently but consistent. The largest difference though is between a PII 350 made in Ireland and the other (unlocked) Deschutes I tested with the PII 350 beeing significantly faster at 3.5x133MHz.

When it comes to performance in games I can see no differences between different Deschutes CPUs when running at the same frequency and FSB or the differences are at least within the margin of error.

If someone wants to build a Pentium II rig for use with a PCI Voodoo 3 and the motherboard supports the FSB/4 PCI divider then a PII 350 running at 3.5x133 seems to be the optimal choice. Running a PII 350 at 3.5x133 for 466MHz is 5-10% faster in games than running a PII 450 at 4.5x100MHz.

None of my Deschutes PII CPUs seems fully stable (Prime95) at 5x100 or 4x133 MHz at stock v-core and the BX2000+ board Im using dosnt let me increase the voltage. The multiplier lock Intel started to use mid 1998 is limiting my options when it comes to 5x100MHz otherwise I would probably have a late P2 400 capable of that speed as its at least booting Windows at 4x133MHz. Sadly I do not own one of those magical late PII 333 that was in fact the unreleased PII 500 wired for 5x66.

Im done with the benching at 2x133, 4.5x66, 3x100, 5x66, 2.5x133, 3.5x100, 4x100, 3x133, 4.5x100 and 3.5x133 MHz. I will also post scores with the CPU running at 2x153, 2.5x153 and 3x153 as running the PCI clock at 38 MHz is totally fine. I did not bother with slower settings as the performance is too low to be of interest when using a Voodoo 3 (or a Voodoo 2).

Last edited by Skyscraper on 2015-07-13, 19:18. Edited 1 time in total.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 1482 of 27362, by creepingnet

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No update for awhile, just moved into my new "Cave" so to speak, no more mold, thank friggin god. I'm almost considering letting go of my 8088 and 286 as the 486 has been doing a LOT lately.

The new setup now I have an SSD in my 10 year old Pentium 4 for music production and semi-modern stuff, then I have my 486 for all the retro-gaming stuff. I also setup the Atari 2600 and NES to the TV, working out a way to add the Intellivision permanently to it, took a lot of fiddling to make it happy again, apparently the INTV II just did not like being at rest for a few years.

Picked up game building again, and have another game idea I'm working on.

Corporate Warfare (the one I was working on previously) is still at work, still mostly drawing the backgrounds, though I'm using the 2nd game to attempt something crazy with AGS 2.3 for DOS. But I'll talk about that there. I've been working on the backgrounds, then the sprites. I found out most people do the sprites first.

Mr. Flowers - This one is a bit of a story on how I got started on it....

So, a friend just moved from Cali to WA and she has a son. Her son is into this crazy game called Five Nights at Freddy's - those of you not familiar, it's a modern indie title where you play a nightwatch at a Chuck-E-Cheese-Alike restaurant where you have to protect yourself from wayward animatronic animals. Anyway, I jumped down the FNaF rabbit hole and found myself inspired to do something new with the graphical Adventure Genre in a similar vein.

So I had this bad guy in my mind since I was a kid, sort of like a cross between the boogeyman and the Pillsbury dough boy - if he travelled between dimensions via old Television Sets. Anyway, the game takes place at a TV shop, and you (like FNaF) are a nightwatch, but instead of sitting in one room and shutting doors, it's a point n' click graphical adventure with random puzzles - sort of like if Monkey Island stole the governor amidst the three trials and you had to somehow remotely free Otis from the jail. Prior to this, I was going to do some huge, linear, SOMI/FPFP style adventure game but I've been wanting to learn how to limit my scale so I can do all this as one guy.

Ie. Instead of 40+ Screens (Corp. Warfare), this game will probably only wind up having around half that, and half of those are just different screens for the daytime version of the TV repair shop.

So instead the premise is that you are the nephew of the owner of a TV Shop that was closed in 1988 due to paranormal activity, like FNAF, there's a few days you need to spend patrolling the shop to keep out urban explorers, take care of the homeless, and keep potential criminals out, not to protect the assets, but to protect the criminals, homeless, and Urban Explorers from the paranormal activity taking place in the electronics. Unlike FNAF though, you're not sitting in a room helpless, you are actively walking around the shop finding issues over the course of the night (Randomly activated puzzles), and resolving them to the best of your abilities. Your uncle checks on the shop during the daytime, and will brief you on any potential issues at the start of your shift.

One fun thing about making this game is all the creepy music and video stuff I plan to put in it. Anyone who'se playd One Night at Flumpty's 2 (another inspiration) can really appreaciate the creep value of an old, malfunctioning record player in the game, and B&W TV sets suddenly showing things in color, and whatnot.

Just yesterday I was finishing up on a nifty idea for 256 color (yes, I'm using 8-bit, as it will allow the widest compatibility possible, and smaller file sizes for older computers for the DOS version). Normally using AGS 2.3, one has to set aside a part of the 256 color palette for sprites and the rest to backgrounds, but I found, even when I LIMITED the background colors down to 10-12 slots, by somewhat copying the Graf-X II color palette (yes, all 256 colors, for the most part) to the palette in ROOMEDIT, I found I could STILL Run the game, and everything would look the way it's supposed to, plus I'd have sprites with the same colors as in Graf-X II. Basically, my idea is to have a global palette to save on development time a bit so I don't need to make custom 256 color palettes for sprites and whatnot. I can just use the same exact color chart and placement for ALL things in the game, allowing me to have full 256 color sprites and backgrounds, without having to go to true-color mode (which will only be for the Windows versions).

Another thing I discovered, using a test version of one of the rooms (our visitor insisted on putting the animatronic eyes from FNaF in there....so to compromise Chica's eyes are in the room but they don't really do anything. However, due to my palette mods, the default AGS sprite guy looks really funny....like he's an Oompa Loompa wearing a red leather jumpsuit....guess he joined the early 80's Loverboy touring entourage, 🤣! An artifact of my sprite alterations).

AGS for DOS was originally stated to require a 486 DX4-100 for min sys requirements, I'm actually achieving excellent performance on a DX2-66, albeit under 64MB of RAM, and no L2 Cache. I'm tempted to see how low I can go with this for future DOS games. It still will need a 486 though.....as it does detect what CPU you are using.

~The Creeping Network~
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
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Reply 1483 of 27362, by Skyscraper

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I just learned that a Deschutes Pentium II can not run at a lesser multiplier than 3x on the Gigabyte BX2000+ whithout the L2 cache beeing deactivated, 3x works fine though.

If I want to get benchmark results from a PII running at 2.5*153 I need to find a Klamath stable at that speed, the one I used for benching at 2.5x133 isnt.

edit

The Klamath I used for benching 266 - 350 MHz diddnt even want to boot Windows at 2.5x152MHz

The second Klamath I tried booted Windows but would not even run SuperPi 1M.

Third time's a charm, at least its looking good so far 😁

edit 2

Strangly enough the third Klamath is Prime stable at 383MHz (15min+) but it wont run some games and 3d benchmarks. I guess the combined load of a highy overclocked Klamath and the PCI Voodoo 3 running at 183 MHz makes the core voltage drop some which makes the system unstable while loading only the CPU is fine. Its matters little, few people are running their PII systems at 2.5x152 anyhow, I think I will add some Katmai scores instead.

I should have used a board with v-core adjustment for this test as that would have made it possible to run a PIII 450@600 which were a very popular thing to do back then. As it is I can bench Katmai CPUs at 4.5x100 5x100, 5,5x100 and 6x100.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 1484 of 27362, by blank001

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Rebuilt my legacy XP machine, a.k.a. the splinter cell computer (for playing 1 & 2 in peace)

Athlon 64 3200+, 754 socket, venice core
Abit NF8, full rubycon caps, LNIB when I found it in recycling
1Gb Corsair 3200
Geforce 7800gs, engineering sample OR ti4400 (for SC1)
Audigy 2 Plat
WD2500KS

TODO:
i) get a better cooler, this one is from the recycling bin that I got the NF8 out of.
ii) replace the ram with a single Corsair XMS 3200 1gb stick

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_: K6-III+ 450apz@550, P5A-B, 128Mb CL2, Voodoo 5500 AGP, MX300, AWE64 Gold 32mb, SC-55v2.0
_: Pentium III 1400 S, TUSL2-C, 512Mb CL2, Voodoo 5500 AGP, MX300

Reply 1485 of 27362, by Skyscraper

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My benchmarking with the Gigabyte BX2000+ continues 😀

After benching the 4 speed grades of Katmai I own I decided to bench some Celeron Mendocinos aswell. I found a 333 Slot-1, a 366 and an extremly filthy 466. The 333 had no issues with running at 100 MHz FSB for 500 MHz but the 366 wouldnt. The Celeron 466 would not run at all at first but I put it in the dishwasher and ran a full program, now it works fine 😀. I know I have a Celeron 500 aswell sitting in a Baby AT PC-Chips board but I think I threw away my 3 Celeron 300A some years ago before I got bitten by the retro bug. I think I have a 400 and a Mendocino 533 somewhere but I cant find them, I think I never owned a 433. I can perhaps get my hands on the missing speed grades at a later time.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 1486 of 27362, by PhilsComputerLab

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blank001 wrote:

Rebuilt my legacy XP machine, a.k.a. the splinter cell computer (for playing 1 & 2 in peace)

Nice! Love that game. Well worth building a computer for 🤣

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Reply 1487 of 27362, by PeterLI

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Tested a 486 MOBO. It POSTs. I do not have a DIN/AT keyboard to test further. 😈

I also disassembled an IBM PS/ValuePoint 325T. The MOBO is fried because the machine behaved very erratically. The case was also cracked. I will use the extra SIMMs in my other 325T and the HDD in an IBM PS/ValuePoint 425SX/Si (came without HDD). The FDD, PSU, the BIOS chip, bay cover and screws are spare parts. The rest went in the trash. 🤣

Reply 1488 of 27362, by PhilsComputerLab

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PeterLI wrote:

I do not have a DIN/AT keyboard

What? 😲

Instant ban from Vogons 🤣

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Reply 1489 of 27362, by kithylin

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PeterLI wrote:

Tested a 486 MOBO. It POSTs. I do not have a DIN/AT keyboard to test further. 😈

I also disassembled an IBM PS/ValuePoint 325T. The MOBO is fried because the machine behaved very erratically. The case was also cracked. I will use the extra SIMMs in my other 325T and the HDD in an IBM PS/ValuePoint 425SX/Si (came without HDD). The FDD, PSU, the BIOS chip, bay cover and screws are spare parts. The rest went in the trash. 🤣

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191609127458

Everyone working with old machines should have a couple of these around, they're very cheap.

Reply 1490 of 27362, by blank001

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Building a Pentium III S rig, but it's not done yet. So far it looks like this:

Asus TUSL2-C
1.2Ghz Celeron
256Mb PC133
Hercules 3D Prophet 4500 Kyro II
Netgear FX310
Diamond MX300
Vantec SATA > IDE adapter

There's a 1400S coming which will get paired with an aftermarket cooler and noctua 80mm fan. The video card I'm still sorting out. I will say that I am a fan of the kyro II. I want a V5500 but I can't find a one at non-ebay prices.

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Last edited by blank001 on 2015-07-15, 22:47. Edited 1 time in total.

_: K6-III+ 450apz@550, P5A-B, 128Mb CL2, Voodoo 5500 AGP, MX300, AWE64 Gold 32mb, SC-55v2.0
_: Pentium III 1400 S, TUSL2-C, 512Mb CL2, Voodoo 5500 AGP, MX300

Reply 1493 of 27362, by Blurredman

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What I love about AT keyboards is that they have really nice long leads.

It's the small things..

As far as today's retro stuff goes, I gave up in trying to install non-pnp network cards on TurboLinux 6, so instead I swapped out the 3com 3c905 in my 3DFX box with a Realteak 8029, put the 3c509 back into the 486 pc, and put the PCI 3x905 into the linux box. Worked out of the box perfectly, no post installation configurations required.

Now just have to install a more up to date browser (currently has Netscape communicator 4), Though with my home ftp server it will be a lot easier to transfer files for the endless packages i will undoubtebly need in order to get by. Glibc2.4.4 here I come. I won't be able to get more than Netscape 6 or 7 without you. 😊

http://blurredmanswebsite.ddns.net/ 😊

Reply 1494 of 27362, by darksheer

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leileilol wrote:

I have two cacheless M919s. BITE ME ADMISN!!!!

I laughed more than I should 🤣
I don't know what is worse : proprietary COAST modules or FAKE soldered cache chips ? 😁

Reply 1495 of 27362, by Arctic

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Darkman wrote:

replaced the standard Intel cooler on my PIII Tualatin with a Zalman CNPS6000-Cu Copper cooler, more appropriate for an Athlon , but it works great.

What are your temps with it?

Reply 1496 of 27362, by Darkman

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Arctic wrote:
Darkman wrote:

replaced the standard Intel cooler on my PIII Tualatin with a Zalman CNPS6000-Cu Copper cooler, more appropriate for an Athlon , but it works great.

What are your temps with it?

idle its about 32C degrees, but after running 3DMark2000 twice, and a bit of Quake3 for good measure, the CPU temp went up to 35-36C or so.

the board is housed in a Lian Li PC60 case, so well ventilated too. The thermal paste is Arctic Silver 5.

Reply 1498 of 27362, by HighTreason

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Typical IBM tech. Ill equipped to deal with the real world in an ever progressing industry. 😜

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