VOGONS


First post, by kreats

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I use a belkin omniview 4 port PS/2 KVM (F1D104) for my retro rigs - which is very convenient for switching between pcs (can use at/ps-2 adapters, has inbuilt serial-ps/2 translation). However, getting a wireless keyboard / mouse that works properly seems to be a bit of a problem (due to modern wireless mice not being ps/2 compatible).

What I am looking for is the most modern keyboard/mouse I can find that has no/few problems either being used on a variety of older machines or being switched through the belkin KVM.. ideally they would just be a vanilla wireless keyboard/wireless optical mouse combo - without lots of media keys, special buttons etc.

Mice/keyboards up to about 2010 generally seem to support ps/2-USB adapters - which is probably the most important consideration.

Another consideration is (I think?) I need a seperate ps/2 cable to go to the kvm for mouse and keyboard, so single receivers that go to a single usb aren't good.

A cursory look seems to bring up these candidates:

Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0 and below
Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer series, inc Wireless Optical Mouse 5000 (aka Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer 2.0)
Microsoft Wireless Desktop Elite
Logitech cordless desktop mx3100 (and below?)

I'm not the biggest fan of microsoft's horizontally scrolling mouse wheel or their (mostly) wacky designs but if they are the only ones that work I guess I can give them a shot.

I'm also unsure if the extensions that microsoft did to the ps/2 protocol will cause problems (e.g. once the driver puts the mouse in an "enhanced" mode & the kvm switches - is this going to cause problems?). Perhaps there are other 3rd party alternatives that would work even better (kensington?)

Anyway, has anyone already solved this problem? If so, what option did you end up going with and why? Are there any other alternatives that aren't too crusty and old?

While keyboard/mouse cables aren't the biggest problem in the world - having a wireless optical mouse on a 386 is kinda cool if you ask me.

Reply 1 of 16, by obobskivich

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For PS/2 I have no real suggestions, but for USB I'd go with Logitech's Unifying receiver and not look back - I have one switched through a USB switch for my machines, and as long as they support USB it seems to show up as a basic USB HID. It does not require the Logitech software to be installed (and indeed I only have it installed on my Windows 7 box) either.

I have no idea if it could work with a PS/2 adapter, but I doubt it. I also have no idea how it'd interact with a strict KVM - that's why I went with a switch; it's much simpler and thus isn't a big source of problems.

Reply 2 of 16, by kreats

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Yeah unifying receiver is definitely not one that works.

I think any USB device that identifies as a HID device is out with regards to working with PS/2 adapters.

I would consider other KVMs but this is the one that provides serial translation. Besides, looking back is what we do here!

Reply 3 of 16, by alexanrs

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The long-term solution would be developing an active PS/2->USB adapter with an USB-host enabled PIC or something. A well coded one would be able to recognize composite USB devices and hubs besides HID keyboards and mice, so these "combo" transmitters would work just fine.

Reply 4 of 16, by obobskivich

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kreats wrote:

I think any USB device that identifies as a HID device is out with regards to working with PS/2 adapters.

It has to identify as HID-class to be an HID (IOW: we want this, it means compatibility)... 😊 Being HID-class does not mean no passive PS/2 adapter either - it's just that many newer keyboards/mice have dropped support for passive PS/2 because it's considered unnecessary (and feel free to flip out on the keyboard/mice makers for this).

Honestly this is one of the reasons I hate KVMs too - so many things that should work, simply don't. No matter how expensive or elaborate the device. Any reason you can't go with a switch instead? 😊

alexanrs wrote:

The long-term solution would be developing an active PS/2->USB adapter with an USB-host enabled PIC or something. A well coded one would be able to recognize composite USB devices and hubs besides HID keyboards and mice, so these "combo" transmitters would work just fine.

Active PS/2 -> USB exists; they cost around $10. No need to re-invent.

Reply 5 of 16, by alexanrs

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Oops, I meant USB->PS/2

EDIT: Regardless of the order, what I meant is a device in which you can connect USB mice and keyboard and connect it to two PS/2 ports on a PC or KVM. A quick look at ebay returned TONS of active adapters that do the oposite.

Reply 7 of 16, by kreats

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Well a USB switch wouldn't let me use one keyboard/mouse for everything (current setup has p3, p233,486,386) - I'm also all about minimizing cables/clutter at the moment.

Not totally opposed to a ps/2 wireless optical mouse - but having something recent is preferable. A single scrollwheel is pretty important to me also.

Here is another candidate: Microsoft Optical Comfort Desktop Keyboard Set 4000

bummer with this one is that scroll lock requires pressing a function key.. and scroll lock is how you switch inputs on the kvm

Reply 8 of 16, by obobskivich

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alexanrs wrote:

Oops, I meant USB->PS/2

EDIT: Regardless of the order, what I meant is a device in which you can connect USB mice and keyboard and connect it to two PS/2 ports on a PC or KVM. A quick look at ebay returned TONS of active adapters that do the oposite.

Oh - I understand what you mean now. Yes, quite different. 😊

RacoonRider wrote:

How about a PS/2 wireless mouse? A4Tech IRW-25

What's the second scroll wheel do? 😕

kreats wrote:

Here is another candidate: Microsoft Optical Comfort Desktop Keyboard Set 4000

Looks like it requires USB connectivity too (the manual "high encourages" it). Also has no drivers for anything older than Windows 2000, which may be a problem, and finally it's pretty dated - specifications include a whopping 6ft wireless range (and I doubt the "wirelessness" would thus be much of an advantage). 😵

bummer with this one is that scroll lock requires pressing a function key.. and scroll lock is how you switch inputs on the kvm

Any chance you can reconfigure this? (I'm guessing not, but some KVMs allow this if you load their software on one of the machines)

Reply 9 of 16, by kreats

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The second wheel is for horizontal scrolling in windows - I do remember a friend owning a mouse like this who liked this design.

I have read accounts of people using the microsoft receiver with a ps/2 converter on the usb and plugging both plugs (usb+converter and ps/2) into separate plugs on their kvm. Seems it is just the scroll lock getting in the way of choosing a microsoft model. No way of redefining the KVM switching unfortunately.

PS: reading that the keyboard in the MX3100 is annoyingly laggy

Reply 10 of 16, by BigBodZod

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I have an I/O Gear USB 4-port KVM and it too does not work with any of my Logitech Unified USB Receivers.

My wired Microsoft Natural KB however works fine so this tells me it has to be a WIRED USB Mouse and KB in order to work properly in this KVM device 🙁

No matter where you go, there you are...

Reply 11 of 16, by kreats

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This one looks good - but hard to source (second hand keyboards are pretty eww): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … N82E16823126029

Also, found this interesting;

http://uberoptions.net/logitech-protocols

from this list - you'd want a 2.4ghz mouse/keyboard without a bluetooth or unifying receiver. Bit leery of the 27Mhz stuff - but could be ok for a keyboard.

So the plan is to attempt to get a NOS logitech mx610 for the mouse and worry about the keyboard later (hopefully can find one with a compact USB stick receiver).

Two completely separate devices should help things a bit anyway.

PS: found this too - but mainly a curiosity http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/ir2ps2/index_en.php

Reply 12 of 16, by BigBodZod

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kreats wrote:
This one looks good - but hard to source (second hand keyboards are pretty eww): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … […]
Show full quote

This one looks good - but hard to source (second hand keyboards are pretty eww): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It … N82E16823126029

Also, found this interesting;

http://uberoptions.net/logitech-protocols

from this list - you'd want a 2.4ghz mouse/keyboard without a bluetooth or unifying receiver. Bit leery of the 27Mhz stuff - but could be ok for a keyboard.

So the plan is to attempt to get a NOS logitech mx610 for the mouse and worry about the keyboard later (hopefully can find one with a compact USB stick receiver).

Two completely separate devices should help things a bit anyway.

PS: found this too - but mainly a curiosity http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/ir2ps2/index_en.php

I'll take a look but for me the KVM works great, just found an old two-button + wheelmouse wired logitech and it works great in this unit.

Mainly I'm just setting up a dedicated XP box for some older games to run once in awhile since I have yet to get to them to work under Win 7 🙁

No matter where you go, there you are...

Reply 13 of 16, by kreats

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small update - received the MX610 and it works perfectly as a mouse on the belkin kvm. Another cable bites the dust!

I have some thoughts on the keyboard, but would like a USB stick receiver - so may have to mix and match a bit. Unfortunately most wireless keyboards that support ps/2 are not 2.4ghz but oh well.

Reply 14 of 16, by kreats

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Another update - gambled on the Logitech Cordless Desktop 650.

Keyboard and mouse work on USB, but neither with a ps/2 green adapter (are these physically identical to the purple ones?).

The model number of the receiver is the same as that which ships with other combos that support PS2 (C-BT44)- but it seems to be a variant which doesn't have a ps/2 cable integrated.

Up till now I thought that the receiver is what is giving the compatibility - as many keyboards/mice are interchangeable with the fast RF protocol.. I thought just get the keyboard you like (one which has a scroll lock key) then get a receiver that has some ps/2 leads on it and everything is ok.. now I am not so sure...

So some alternatives:

1) I can get the version of the receiver with a ps/2 cable attached & try. This assumes the receiver is what is making it compatible, not the keyboard. e.g. the EX110 receiver is also C-BT44 and has a green ps/2 plug and I believe includes a purple adapter.

2) Get a S510 set and use the keyboard from that - which should just work. I prefer the layout of the 650 though.. ho hum. Don't like buying second hand keyboards either.. eww.

3) For a mega gamble, try the Logitech Cordless 2400 pro set.

This is a 2.4ghz combo (non unifying). However, I'm very doubtful that it will work if it doesn't say PS/2 supported though.

Reply 15 of 16, by kreats

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I got a S510 keyboard and mouse combo and used the receiver from it.. works perfect.

I prefer the cordless desktop 650 keyboard as all the keys are in the standard places and there are no media buttons on it (and the 650 keyboard is new).

In conclusion.. the final setup I am happy with (that works with a belkin KVM) is the S510 receiver & cordless desktop 650 keyboard + MX610 mouse (which has it's own 2.4ghz receiver).

PS: Used the S510 keyboard and mouse with another computer with the usb only receiver from the cordless desktop 650.

Reply 16 of 16, by Bohatyaor

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I thought just get the keyboard you like (one which has a scroll lock key) then get a receiver that has some ps/2 leads on it and everything is ok.. now I am not so sure...???

🤣

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