VOGONS


Ultimate OS/2 Warp 4 machine?

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Reply 20 of 50, by Jo22

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Awesome thread! I really like OS/2. May I join ?

Some tips for OS/2 :
- The BIOS setting "OS/2 Onboard Memory >64M" is only for old versions of OS/2.
- Avoid long filenames for drivers. They seem to only work on HPFS.
- The ODIN compatibility layer lets you run Win32 applications. Like Wine for OS/2.
- OS/2 can provide up to 512MB of RAM for a Win-OS/2 session (doesn't require real RAM, uses swap memory aswell).
Real Win 3.1 can only provide a virtual memory three times the size of your RAM.
- Pro Audio Spectrum 16 soundcards are ideal for OS/2.
You can use the native part for OS/2 and the thunderboard part for WIN-OS/2 (or vice versa).
- To work properly, OS/2 needs at least 8MB of RAM. Remember, that's the minimum. 16MB is highly recommend.
- OS/2 has a safe mode. On boot up, if you see the OS/2 logo, press ALT+F1. It then generates a new Config.sys file.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 21 of 50, by mr_bigmouth_502

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Jo22 wrote:
Awesome thread! I really like OS/2. May I join ? […]
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Awesome thread! I really like OS/2. May I join ?

Some tips for OS/2 :
- The BIOS setting "OS/2 Onboard Memory >64M" is only for old versions of OS/2.
- Avoid long filenames for drivers. They seem to only work on HPFS.
- The ODIN compatibility layer lets you run Win32 applications. Like Wine for OS/2.
- OS/2 can provide up to 512MB of RAM for a Win-OS/2 session (doesn't require real RAM, uses swap memory aswell).
Real Win 3.1 can only provide a virtual memory three times the size of your RAM.
- Pro Audio Spectrum 16 soundcards are ideal for OS/2.
You can use the native part for OS/2 and the thunderboard part for WIN-OS/2 (or vice versa).
- To work properly, OS/2 needs at least 8MB of RAM. Remember, that's the minimum. 16MB is highly recommend.
- OS/2 has a safe mode. On boot up, if you see the OS/2 logo, press ALT+F1. It then generates a new Config.sys file.

How extensive is ODIN's compatibility? Is it like Win32S on Windows 3.1, or is it more extensive than that?

My NEW(ish) desktop:
p8cqsw-2.png

Reply 22 of 50, by feipoa

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I am curious which applications you intend to run with OS/2 Warp 4?
About 15 years ago, I setup a tri-boot system with Windows NT 4.0, OS/2 Warp 4, and Debian on my Cyrix 5x86-120 system. OS/2 ran fine with a Matrox G200 and 3Com ethernet card. The problem I ran into was not knowing and not having any applications to run with OS/2. I remember the Internet working quite a bit faster on NT4 w/IE6 compared to whatever browser I ended up using with OS/2.

Don't a few games run on OS/2? It would be interesting to see a benchmark comparison with OS/2 vs. NT4 or Win9x.

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Reply 23 of 50, by Jo22

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mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

How extensive is ODIN's compatibility? Is it like Win32S on Windows 3.1, or is it more extensive than that?

It's more extensive than that, it supports both Win32s and full-fledged Win32 applications.
So apps don't require to have a relocation table or have to be single-threaded. Even the 16MB barrier is gone.
And it has DirectDraw supports aswell (uses Dive if available) so Win95 games should work.
OpenGL is supported, too. Requires a 3dfx Voodoo1 or Voodoo2 for hardware acceleration though (see opengl3dfx.zip).

Overall, ODIN is a very fine piece of software, I think. It's designed in an elegant way and and requires little overhead. It reformats the executable (PE to LX) and translates functions calls on the fly to their OS/2 equivalents.
Just like Wine. But on a lower and much more integrated level.
OS/2 sees no difference between a native OS/2 application and a Win32 application.

By the way, OS/2 handles its own 16bit (OS/2 1.x) and 32bit (OS/2 +2.x) applications the same way.
Both can make full use of the system. So on OS/2, an old 16bit program written on a 286 can use up to 512MB of RAM(!)

ODIN is intended for Warp 4, but with a little bit of effort can be made to run just fine on Warp 3.
For installation you need to have the WarpIn Installer (for example warpin-1-0-19.exe) and
the ODIN package (for example odin32bin-20030508-release.wpi or odin32bin-0_8_9.wpi).
After WarpIn is installed you can click on the package.
To work properly, ODIN requires a HPFS partition though, so it can support long filenames for Win95 programs.
It can be a secondary partition, it doesn't have to be the boot partition.
This is probably because ODIN is implemented on a lower level, just like a device driver.

There's some NT comaptibility aswell, I once ran the windows version of VICE64 on it.

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 24 of 50, by ElBrunzy

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I think feipoa question is interesting : what is there to do with a vintage computer running os2warp4 nowadays ? I would like to play midi music using the gus, the sbawe32 and a mt32. Maybe try to find a copy of ultimod 1.5 gus edition... otherwise I dont see... Seems to be no demo scene for that os. But that must not be all there is to be.

Reply 25 of 50, by mr_bigmouth_502

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Jo22 wrote:
It's more extensive than that, it supports both Win32s and full-fledged Win32 applications. So apps don't require to have a relo […]
Show full quote
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

How extensive is ODIN's compatibility? Is it like Win32S on Windows 3.1, or is it more extensive than that?

It's more extensive than that, it supports both Win32s and full-fledged Win32 applications.
So apps don't require to have a relocation table or have to be single-threaded. Even the 16MB barrier is gone.
And it has DirectDraw supports aswell (uses Dive if available) so Win95 games should work.
OpenGL is supported, too. Requires a 3dfx Voodoo1 or Voodoo2 for hardware acceleration though (see opengl3dfx.zip).

Overall, ODIN is a very fine piece of software, I think. It's designed in an elegant way and and requires little overhead. It reformats the executable (PE to LX) and translates functions calls on the fly to their OS/2 equivalents.
Just like Wine. But on a lower and much more integrated level.
OS/2 sees no difference between a native OS/2 application and a Win32 application.

By the way, OS/2 handles its own 16bit (OS/2 1.x) and 32bit (OS/2 +2.x) applications the same way.
Both can make full use of the system. So on OS/2, an old 16bit program written on a 286 can use up to 512MB of RAM(!)

ODIN is intended for Warp 4, but with a little bit of effort can be made to run just fine on Warp 3.
For installation you need to have the WarpIn Installer (for example warpin-1-0-19.exe) and
the ODIN package (for example odin32bin-20030508-release.wpi or odin32bin-0_8_9.wpi).
After WarpIn is installed you can click on the package.
To work properly, ODIN requires a HPFS partition though, so it can support long filenames for Win95 programs.
It can be a secondary partition, it doesn't have to be the boot partition.
This is probably because ODIN is implemented on a lower level, just like a device driver.

There's some NT comaptibility aswell, I once ran the windows version of VICE64 on it.

I wonder now what the most recent games it could handle would be.

My NEW(ish) desktop:
p8cqsw-2.png

Reply 26 of 50, by ynari

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It won't run anything recent; OS/2 lacks any 3D acceleration for one (if you want to be very picky, there's OpenGL 1.2 available for it, and a reference driver for only one card that accelerates it a bit). Odin was always very hit and miss, and had a lot of niggly issues - it ran win32 Quake 2 with a Voodoo2 card 'perfectly' but the save games would not restore, for instance.

OS/2 will technically boot in 4MB, but it'll be swap city at that memory point.

Since this is Vogons, games worth running under OS/2 :

Galactic Civilisations 2 : the obvious one. It started on OS/2, and it's still a wonderful game.
AVARICE : more as a demonstration that too much choice is a bad idea in games

There are other decent games, but they're available on other platforms. LINKS for OS/2 may or may not have some unique features.

Reply 27 of 50, by Jo22

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ElBrunzy wrote:

I think feipoa question is interesting : what is there to do with a vintage computer running os2warp4 nowadays ? I would like to play midi music using the gus, the sbawe32 and a mt32. Maybe try to find a copy of ultimod 1.5 gus edition... otherwise I dont see... Seems to be no demo scene for that os. But that must not be all there is to be.

Well, OS/2 emerged from the need for a real operating system.
If you could do all that kind of demoscene stuff, esp. on the bare metal, it wouldn't stand up to that.

As far as I know, there a few MOD players on OS/2. Such as Power MOD, XMP or Digital Music Player.
I love demoscene stuff, chiptunes and modules but I'm no GUS owner myself. So I have to ask.

Are you looking for this one ?

UltiMOD v1.5 (PUBLIC BETA) OS/2 Modplayer for the Gravis Ultrasound.
Supports 4, 6 and 8 channel MODs, 1-32 channel FT1, MTM, S3M and XM.

It's on hobbes archive (look for ultra120.zip).

For MIDI there are some programs aswell, I think. Like for example XG DSP,
an editor/controller for Yamaha SW60XG, TMIDI, MidiLab/2 or CreativeAV.
But to be fair, I didn't try them. Haven't set up my MIDI stuff yet.

Oh, and there's nothing stopping you from using your precious DOS software.
In OS/2 you can even run several of them side-by-side or play booter games in a window. 😉

And on hobbes you'll finde some more native programs and games..
But I feel like there was much more software for OS/2 but is now gone and forgotten.
Especial commercial software or early stuff from those computer user's groups.

Last but not least, may I ask some questions,too ?
Why do people insinst in using Windows 98 if a game runs fine on Windows 10 ?
What is there to do with a vintage computer nowadays anyway ?

..if it wasn't for

Curiosity. History. Fascination. ?

https://youtu.be/-DAojx2Hgec

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 28 of 50, by ElBrunzy

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NJRoadfan wrote:

The AWE drivers for OS/2 support loading soundfonts BUT they have to be in SBK (v1) format since the AWE Control Panel for OS/2 doesn't appear to support SF2 (v2) files. Creative includes a full driver stack for OS/2 including full Win-OS/2 support on their ISA cards.

Many thanks for that precision. Do you know of any .sbk soundfont that are about 28mb in size ? Are they limited ? I did try to convert some 28mb .sf2 into 28mb .sbk but it always fail.

Reply 29 of 50, by mhoney71

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Great info on OS/2! I recently started buying old IBM ThinkPads in a quest to get a nice OS/2 machine. So far I've acquired a couple 380XD, couple 390X, 600e, A20m and A30. Why go to such extremes to load an OS that has seen it's days numbered? Same reason people restore classic cars, to re-live the good ole days. IMHO computers these days are boring and have no character.

Reply 31 of 50, by mr_bigmouth_502

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mhoney71 wrote:

IMHO computers these days are boring and have no character.

That's part of the reason I use Linux, because it feels more like using a "real" operating system than some corporate, commercial appliance. 😉

My NEW(ish) desktop:
p8cqsw-2.png

Reply 32 of 50, by dr.zeissler

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Today I will setup a new Warp3 machine...we will see how this turns out.

ScoveryXS D1215
- PIII 533-1400
- 512MB
- 40-120GB
- i815e
- AC97 Soundmax

That should be the drivers and I also need Fixpack 35 for Warp3.

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Reply 33 of 50, by Caluser2000

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dr.zeissler don't forget the Dani or IBM upgraded IDE drivers during your initial installation.

Regarding NT vs OS/2 networking performance. NT was built specifically for 32 bit network support from the outset whereas OS/2 wasn't. That was the primary reason MicroSoft dropped out from the OS/2 project. Even the HPFS file system in OS/2 was MSs baby. Anyone who says NT is based on OS/2 is telling complete bullshit. OS/2 networking is an add on to the base operating system an the initial networking set up was initially 16 bit(including TCPIP support in Warp v3 connect). If you install the networking client from Warp v4 Server to a fresh(no fixpacks) OS/2 v3 Warp installation like I have on a DEC LPvp+ 425 with a 486DX2/66 cpu and 16megs of ram you will have a 32-bit tcpip network stack including DHCP support, which OS/2 v3 Warp Connect doesn't support.

Another thing. IBM pulled in Amiga programmers to help with Workplace Shell when MS left the OS/2 project in exchange for being allowed to use REXX. MS had more involvement in the initial OS/2 GUI than most folk give them credit for. The Motif look for interoperability was the standard back then.

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2020-12-30, 19:10. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 34 of 50, by dr.zeissler

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Interesting infos, thx! Yes I already have a special bootdisk, but it has the later original 506er not the dani-stuff.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 35 of 50, by Caluser2000

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2020-12-22, 07:37:

Interesting infos, thx! Yes I already have a special bootdisk, but it has the later original 506er not the dani-stuff.

No worries mate. Just take your time. Getting OS/2 sorted out to your taste can be very frustrating. I found the original MS Windows 98 performed just as well as my old Warp v4 installation and supported far more hardware.

Rrt OS/2 background ,once you get past all the bias IBM luvers crap you would find it wouldn't even had a Gui if it wasn't for MSs input.

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2020-12-22, 08:08. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 36 of 50, by dr.zeissler

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It's not just OS/2 on that machine 😉

2GB P HPFS OS/2 Warp3
2GB P FAT16 MSDOS/WIN3X
2GB P FAT32 WIN98SE
2GB L 79 AMITHLON
XGB FAT32 DATA

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 37 of 50, by dr.zeissler

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Interesting thing is that ODIN stuff as yo22 mentioned above. Because I love Warp3 and do not have Warp4 I will chick this out too. https://ecsoft2.org/odin
Did someone patch this to work under warp3?

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 38 of 50, by Caluser2000

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2020-12-22, 07:58:
It's not just OS/2 on that machine ;-) […]
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It's not just OS/2 on that machine 😉

2GB P HPFS OS/2 Warp3
2GB P FAT16 MSDOS/WIN3X
2GB P FAT32 WIN98SE
2GB L 79 AMITHLON
XGB FAT32 DATA

Kawl 😉

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 39 of 50, by Jo22

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2020-12-22, 08:03:

Interesting thing is that ODIN stuff as yo22 mentioned above. Because I love Warp3 and do not have Warp4 I will chick this out too. https://ecsoft2.org/odin
Did someone patch this to work under warp3?

Glad to hear! 🙂 Now that you mention it, I searched for helpful videos of using ODIN at YT, but sadly only found my own so far.

Apparently, depending on where you look, FixPack 26 or 32 is required for Warp 3.

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/run-some … s-2-using-odin/

http://www.os2site.com/sw/emulators/odin/w3odin.html

That being said, I *believe* I've still got an old copy of ODIN around that doesn't require WarpIn. I'll check. 😀

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//