Caluser2000 wrote:

What about trying win32s?

Hi, sure I'll try 😀 - but what effect will this have ?

Gahhhrrrlic wrote:

Sorry, I'm just seeing this now.

Hi, that's okay, don't worry. Maybe there's too much memory or something.
Windows 3.1 (its Himem.sys precisely) does address memory the other way round than Win95 would.
Re: A problem when trying to install a Living books game on Windows 3.1 on PCem.

Maybe it helps if we decrease memory to ~95 standards. Say 4 to 16MiB.
It's just a wild guess, though. Let's don't waste too much engery on it. 😉

Jo22 wrote:

Caluser2000 wrote:

What about trying win32s?

Hi, sure I'll try 😀 - but what effect will this have ?

Making 3.x more Win95 compatible. It's worth a shot.

Jo22 wrote:

Hi, sure I'll try :) - but what effect will this have ? […]
Show full quote

Caluser2000 wrote:

What about trying win32s?

Hi, sure I'll try 😀 - but what effect will this have ?

Gahhhrrrlic wrote:

Sorry, I'm just seeing this now.

Hi, that's okay, don't worry. Maybe there's too much memory or something.
Windows 3.1 (its Himem.sys precisely) does address memory the other way round than Win95 would.
Re: A problem when trying to install a Living books game on Windows 3.1 on PCem.

Maybe it helps if we decrease memory to ~95 standards. Say 4 to 16MiB.
It's just a wild guess, though. Let's don't waste too much engery on it. 😉

As mentioned adding win32s gives win3.1 the ability to run some win9x stuff. Add more ram if you like. Can't do any harm. There were *.dll updates as well and win3.11 core file updates for win3.1.

update. Installed Win32s, but no change. Later on, I upgraded to WfW 3.11 and also added Video for Windows and WinG, still no change.
After upgrading QuickTime to 2.1.2 the GME95 program froze the machine when the splash screen showed up.

Edit: Another try. I took the Windows installation that worked before (with ancient QT) and tried it on the P133. No luck.
I'm now going to re-format C: and copy DOS 6.22 on this PC, along with the files of the previously working installation.

Got it to work now with DOS 6.2 and the original Windows 3.10 install ! 😁

I simply went the other way round and did not optimize anything.

[AUTOEXEC.BAT]
C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\ENSEMBLE;C:\GEOS20;C:\DOS;C:\W31EN.EN;
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
REM MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
REM MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
REM KEYB GR,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
MSCDEX /D:MSCD001
KEYB2
MOUSE
REM NCSMALL

[CONFIG.SYS]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /DOUBLE_BUFFER
DOS=HIGH, UMB
COUNTRY=049,850,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
BUFFERS=30
FILES=30
STACKS=9,256
FCBS=4

Software:
MS-DOS 6.22
Windows 3.10
QuickTime 1.1
Vide-CDD.sys

You can watch the video here: https://youtu.be/0laniftwWQw

Jo22 wrote:

Got it to work now with DOS 6.2 and the original Windows 3.10 install ! :D […]
Show full quote

Got it to work now with DOS 6.2 and the original Windows 3.10 install ! 😁

I simply went the other way round and did not optimize anything.

[AUTOEXEC.BAT]
C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\ENSEMBLE;C:\GEOS20;C:\DOS;C:\W31EN.EN;
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
REM MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
REM MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
REM KEYB GR,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
MSCDEX /D:MSCD001
KEYB2
MOUSE
REM NCSMALL

[CONFIG.SYS]
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:MSCD001
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /DOUBLE_BUFFER
DOS=HIGH, UMB
COUNTRY=049,850,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
BUFFERS=30
FILES=30
STACKS=9,256
FCBS=4

Software:
MS-DOS 6.22
Windows 3.10
QuickTime 1.1
Vide-CDD.sys

You can watch the video here: https://youtu.be/0laniftwWQw

This was also my goal (to touch as little as possible). Just looking at your setup there are a few key differences that may affect my outcome:

Our hardware is totally different but that can't be helped I suppose
You are using a different CDROM driver than I am. I will try Vide and see if that helps
Your autoexec and config files are not completely stock. For example, when I install dos and windows, I don't have UMB, display drivers, all those paths, keyboard, mouse, etc.

However since this is a memory problem, if we strictly focus on that, I think the only difference is the UMB part and the fact that you have more physical RAM than I do. Thank you for attempting all these iterations. I will see what UMB, Vide and not installing sound drivers does. Do you happen to know how to do that thing where you make the PC take memory from top-bottom vs bottom-top? That could also be something I try if nothing else works.

If absolutely nothing works, then it must be simpler than software - it must be memory mapping at a BIOS level. What cards do you have and how are they configured in BIOS memory?

I think jo22s main point is he went back to plain fresh install windows 3.1 and the GME just worked without any issues. Could be something in the later wfw kernal or support files that is mucking up your stet up. I'd be interesting to see if the 3.11 core file update break the installation on jo22 system. Kernal update available at http://themagicfloppy.com/Windows/Update/windows3-1.htm

Caluser2000 wrote:

I think jo22s main point is he went back to plain fresh install windows 3.1 and the GME just worked without any issues. Could be something in the later wfw kernal or support files that is mucking up your stet up. I'd be interesting to see if the 3.11 core file update break the installation on jo22 system. Kernal update available at http://themagicfloppy.com/Windows/Update/windows3-1.htm

I've tried both 3.1 (non WFW) and 3.11 WFW and neither worked. Both were retail versions, not betas or anything. I highly doubt at this point that Windows is the culprit if Jo22's install worked. More likely it's how my computer has its memory mapped vs his. I'd be interested to see his memory map of the first 1 MB and compare it to mine to see where the holes are and also his bios setup. If I could duplicate it, it might mean I had a block of memory where GME wanted to take from.

Gahhhrrrlic wrote:

This was also my goal (to touch as little as possible). Just looking at your setup there are a few key differences that may aff […]
Show full quote

This was also my goal (to touch as little as possible). Just looking at your setup there are a few key differences that may affect my outcome:

Our hardware is totally different but that can't be helped I suppose
You are using a different CDROM driver than I am. I will try Vide and see if that helps
Your autoexec and config files are not completely stock. For example, when I install dos and windows, I don't have UMB, display drivers, all those paths, keyboard, mouse, etc.

Ah, I see. 😊 Yes, it's slightly altered. The original config did not contain MOUSE and KEYB2 (small QWERTZ driver), for example.
The other stuff was either disabled or changed. Increasing BUFFERS and FILES was a common tip back in the day.
I also added FCBS support (increased , actually. With no statement it is 2, I believe) and added STACKS=9,256, as WfW 3.11 would do.
The MODE stuff was disabled, since I'm fine with the English Codepage 437 (Norton Commander 1.x doesn't work right with CP850).
Speaking of Vide-CDD.sys, I also will try again with OAKCDROM.sys, of course. Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about this detail! 😅

Caluser2000 wrote:

I think jo22s main point is he went back to plain fresh install windows 3.1 and the GME just worked without any issues. Could be something in the later wfw kernal or support files that is mucking up your stet up. I'd be interesting to see if the 3.11 core file update break the installation on jo22 system. Kernal update available at http://themagicfloppy.com/Windows/Update/windows3-1.htm

Yes, that's what I meant to say. I also tried it with the kernal update from 3.10 to Win 3.11 (non-WfW) - thanks, btw.
This update contained an update for 386 kernal and a few other system files, as it seems.
For completeness, I can also try again with a "full" copy of Windows 3.11 (sold as 3.1, but contained 3.11):
Somewhere in the house, there's a disk set of Windows 3.11 in my language.

Gahhhrrrlic wrote:

I'd be interested to see his memory map of the first 1 MB and compare it to mine to see where the holes are and also his bios setup.
If I could duplicate it, it might mean I had a block of memory where GME wanted to take from.

Ah, ok, no problem. I'll have a look at it this evening or so. And add some pictures or a protocol of the diagnostics program. 😀

Edit: I forgot the most important! 😊 I checked the program on Windows 3.11 (non-WfW) and it worked absolutely fine.
No read-errors, this time. Not sure if that's related to the update, though.

Stellar job, dude.

Thanks! 😊

By the way, it's also working with OAKCDROM.SYS.. I'll upload a video soon. 😀

Edit: https://youtu.be/LFT9sTvovU0

Here are the results of CheckIt!, NSSI and MSD.. 😀
The protocols/logs are also included (see attachment below the pics).

A fairly significant development (Thanks to Jo22 for the idea).

I tried installing windows 3.11 (non WFW), which I would never have thought to do since I already tried 3.1 and 3.11 WFW without success. However 3.11 allowed me to run the setup file for some reason. Full disclosure, I used XDVD2 instead of UDVD2 so I can't be 100% certain that windows fixed the problem and not the cd driver but I'm assuming it was windows. VIDE just didn't work for some reason so I abandoned that attempt.

Even though GME installed, Quicktime did not so I had to find a different version (2.10 I think) that did and that required winzip so the sequence I went through was:

FORMAT C
INSTALL DOS 6.22
INSTALL SOUND DRIVERS (Must do this because my CD-ROM is on an IDE header on the sound card)
Modify config and autoexec to load XDVD2 cd driver
install Windows 3.11
Install GME
Install Winzip
Install Quicktime
Run GME

At this point the program ran but the search doesn't' work (it didn't find anything under tornado, even though there's an article for it) and the articles themselves won't load either. Therefore my concern now is that something that GME uses to read the files on the CD is not loaded yet.

Jo are you having the same issue?

So something weird is definitely going on here. I'm just going to list the issues in case anyone has seen any of this before:

I checked the Groliers CD in my modern PC and everything looks great. Even still I put a completely separate digital copy on a CDR, checked it on my modern PC and then used that to install on my 386 machine.

The BMP files are fine on my modern PC but garbled on Win 3.11. The BMP files that come with windows, like those for wallpapers are fine though. The Groliers BMP files have 50% bars going through them with snow in the bars.
The wav file that plays when you launch Groliers has 50% noise in it, which cuts in and out as the wave file plays.
I thought maybe the CD Drive was messed up but it seems to work just fine with other stuff including copying files from CDRs with no errors running them or playing games like KQ5 or Stellar7

Is it possible that a fresh copy of Win311 isn't good enough to view BMP files (maybe a certain version of bmp?) or play wav files (again of a certain configuration) without first installing some supporting software?
Could smartdrive be messing things up? Windows puts that in my config files
I swapped all the cards around physically and changed some ports and IRQs just to see if that would change anything but it seemed to have no effect.

At long last I think I FINALLY solved all my problems in 1 shot.

Turns out it WAS the CD-ROM all along. I dunno if it was causing the initial memory errors but it was certainly screwing up everything else. All the corrupted wav files and bmp files and Groliers acting all broken. All the problems reading audio CDs. It was all the CD-ROM driver. Guess how I discovered that? Tricky little B too... see the error only manifests when you read something from the CD-ROM on the 386 machine. That's why I wasn't seeing the problem on my modern PC. I had to copy a few bmp files onto a floppy and then view them on the 386 before I noticed the bmps were fine. Making a new cd didn't solve anything.

So back to the root of the problem... the cd-rom driver. I have used both UDVD2 and XDVD2 and thought they were great because... well... they just worked without any issues. Files read and executed fine until I got into this Groliers business. So once I figured there was something wrong there I had to go hunting for a new driver. UDVD2/XDVD2 obfuscates what driver it is actually using, since it's one of those canned universal driver things so no help there. Despite what others will tell you, you can't just grab something like OAK and be done with it. Every CD-ROM has a different chip inside that will only work with certain drivers. Maybe OAK has support for many chips but Matsushita is a pretty common brand from that era and it don't work with OAK. Same with VIDE, same with Gold. So finally I came upon this thing called CD-ROM God, which is a boot disk containing some 40 drivers. I just went through them 1 at a time and out of 40 I found 5 that worked. It turns out Lite-On makes a really good driver that's compatible with my Matsushita drive. Not only did it work right away but all my prior issues just evaporated. CD music was playing, Groliers was working. Everything is good again! All I can say is thank God (CD-ROM God that is) that it wasn't the secondary IDE header on my sound card that was the issue. If that was the case I'd have to abandon running my CD-ROM off of my sound card and I currently don't have another IDE header to connect that to.

All's well that ends well I suppose. Thanks to all who helped. Sometimes you just have to brute force these things till they yield though.

Congrats for finding the issue 😀

Is this the CD-ROM God you're referring to: http://manmrk.net/tutorials/DOS/download/cdgod55.exe ?

Perhaps it would be worth it putting it on vogonsdrivers.com

cde wrote:

Congrats for finding the issue 😀

Is this the CD-ROM God you're referring to: http://manmrk.net/tutorials/DOS/download/cdgod55.exe ?

Perhaps it would be worth it putting it on vogonsdrivers.com

Yes that's the one. It's basically a simple dos gui with a list of 40 drivers and you just pick them 1 at a time and it tries to load it. If it doesn't work you get to try again with the next one without needing to reboot. Very convenient. If it does work, you can have the drive polled for additional information. I went through all 40 and found 5 good ones of which the Lite-On was the best. That's for my hardware though. For other people it will probably be different.