VOGONS


Should I build a 386 or 486 machine?

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Reply 20 of 33, by Ariakos

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Tell you the truth now I'm beginning to see the wisdom behind building a Socket 7 Pentium machine as an all-around retro rig... it's those damn mouse and keyboard. With Pentium machine you can easily use PS/2 (or USB in Windows) but with 386 and 486... they both rely heavily on DIN6 for keyboard and COM for mouse connection. At one point I remember I had one DIN6 keyboard, I guess I left it at my parents' attic (or sold it, can't remember). Same with serial mouse: had one once, eventually thrashed it.

I already ordered couple of cheap DIN6 to PS/2 adapters from eBay. I hope they work out-of-the-box so I can just plug in a PS/2 keyboard. Mouse is trickier. I've browsed Vogons forum and apparently if you don't have an integrated PS/2 connection in the motherboard or specific kind of serial-PS/2 combo mouse you are pretty much stuck to old serial mouses (or you have to MacGyver a PS/2 port to the mobo like feipoa did 🤣 ).

Last edited by Ariakos on 2015-12-13, 20:13. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 21 of 33, by feipoa

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The "MacGyver" approach is actually not very difficult. Soon I will begin this mode for some 386 boards I have. I'm going to put the adapter on a removable socket like user Anonymous Coward did.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 22 of 33, by alexanrs

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Ariakos wrote:

Tell you the truth now I'm beginning to see the wisdom behind building a Socket 7 Pentium machine as an all-around retro rig... it's those damn mouse and keyboard. With Pentium machine you can easily use PS/2 (or USB in Windows) but with 386 and 486... they both rely heavily on DIN6 for keyboard and COM for mouse connection. At one point I remember I had one DIN6 keyboard, I guess I left it at my parents' attic (or sold it, can't remember). Same with serial mouse: had one once, eventually thrashed it.

I already ordered couple of cheap DIN6 to PS/2 adapters from eBay. I hope they work out-of-the-box so I can just plug in a PS/2 keyboard. Mouse is trickier. I've browsed Vogons forum and apparently if you don't have an integrated PS/2 connection in the motherboard or specific kind of serial-PS/2 combo mouse you are pretty much stuck to old serial mouses (or you have to MacGyver a PS/2 port to the mobo like feipoa did 🤣 ).

The keyboard situation isn't really that bad. AT (DIN5) and PS2 (mini-DIN6) are compatible - same protocol, different connector. Those adapters will do just fine.

Reply 23 of 33, by BSA Starfire

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Ariakos wrote:

Tell you the truth now I'm beginning to see the wisdom behind building a Socket 7 Pentium machine as an all-around retro rig... it's those damn mouse and keyboard. With Pentium machine you can easily use PS/2 (or USB in Windows) but with 386 and 486... they both rely heavily on DIN6 for keyboard and COM for mouse connection. At one point I remember I had one DIN6 keyboard, I guess I left it at my parents' attic (or sold it, can't remember). Same with serial mouse: had one once, eventually thrashed it.

I already ordered couple of cheap DIN6 to PS/2 adapters from eBay. I hope they work out-of-the-box so I can just plug in a PS/2 keyboard. Mouse is trickier. I've browsed Vogons forum and apparently if you don't have an integrated PS/2 connection in the motherboard or specific kind of serial-PS/2 combo mouse you are pretty much stuck to old serial mouses (or you have to MacGyver a PS/2 port to the mobo like feipoa did 🤣 ).

What's amusing about this is that both my 386(IBM) & my 486 DX/2 66(Amstrad 9486i) use ps/2 keyboards and mice, but my Intel TX socket 7 from 1998 uses AT/Serial. The 386 is from 1992 & 486 from 1995.
I have to say I really enjoy all 3 machines, wouldn't part with any of them. The neat thing about socket 7 tho is that U have the oportuinity to experiment with lots of really different CPU's, intel, AMD K5, K6, Cyrix M1, M2, IDT & RiSE, no other socket can give you all that choice.
Best,
Chris

286 20MHz,1MB RAM,Trident 8900B 1MB, Conner CFA-170A.SB 1350B
386SX 33MHz,ULSI 387,4MB Ram,OAK OTI077 1MB. Seagate ST1144A, MS WSS audio
Amstrad PC 9486i, DX/2 66, 16 MB RAM, Cirrus SVGA,Win 95,SB 16
Cyrix MII 333,128MB,SiS 6326 H0 rev,ESS 1869,Win ME

Reply 24 of 33, by Ariakos

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Yeah, I'm seriously thinking of looking up an OEM 486 desktop unit like Dell or IBM with integrated I/O connectors and PS/2. But before I find one... I'm just gonna tinker with what I've got (so far I have both 386 and P200 to build). Who knows, maybe I'll manage by with just serial mouses. I'm not confident enough to hack a PS/2 connector to my current mobos. I know I'd just ruin them somehow. 😳

Reply 25 of 33, by Ariakos

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Quick & maybe a stupid question: can I use something like this after the DIN6->PS/2 adapter in hopes for mouse?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271131790682?_trksid= … %3D190607138934

In case link doesn't work: it's a splitter adapter cable that gives you two PS/2 connectors from one. So if I chain DIN6 -> PS/2-> 2xPS/2 will one DIN6 connection from 386/486 give me both mouse & keyboard or is it still strictly only for keyboard connection?

Reply 26 of 33, by tayyare

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I would say it will definitely not work. Probably produced for some other purpose (barcode reader passthru?). I can't see how it will allow a PS/2 mouse to work in this way.

There is also something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Port-USB-2-0-2-Port … GkAAOxyCGNTN6C6

I have no real experience with them but might be useful option for a PCI slotted 486 or an AT socket 7 (if they somehow missing a PS/2 header)?

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Reply 27 of 33, by alexanrs

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/\ I'd stay away from that. Its probably a USB card with a PS/2->USB converter onboard. Which means that whatever keyboard and mouse you put there, it will appear as USB devices to the OS... and we all know how well USB HID devices work on DOS/Win95 without BIOS legacy support.

Reply 28 of 33, by Ariakos

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tayyare wrote:

I would say it will definitely not work. Probably produced for some other purpose (barcode reader passthru?). I can't see how it will allow a PS/2 mouse to work in this way.

Okay, I thought as much. Just needed to check. No quick work-arounds available, I just have to do with serial mouse. 😜

Reply 29 of 33, by Tertz

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vetz wrote:

Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle. A 386 won't cut it there.

Day of the Tentacle has 386 as recommended. Full Throttle sure needs higher as it's 1995 game.

DOSBox CPU Benchmark
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Reply 30 of 33, by idspispopd

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Ariakos wrote:

Quick & maybe a stupid question: can I use something like this after the DIN6->PS/2 adapter in hopes for mouse?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271131790682?_trksid= … %3D190607138934

In case link doesn't work: it's a splitter adapter cable that gives you two PS/2 connectors from one. So if I chain DIN6 -> PS/2-> 2xPS/2 will one DIN6 connection from 386/486 give me both mouse & keyboard or is it still strictly only for keyboard connection?

I think this one is meant for computers with one combo PS/2 port. With that port you can connect either a mouse or a keyboard, or you use an adapter like this and connect both. I suppose those will be mostly laptops (saving space by omitting one connector). I don't know if it hurts to try, though.

Reply 31 of 33, by Half-Saint

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Yes, some modern motherboards have a combo PS/2 port which will let you connect a mouse OR a keyboard but not both at the same time. That's where this splitter comes into play. Some old IBM laptops also had one PS/2 port and you needed a splitter to connect both, the keyboard and the mouse at the same time.

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Reply 32 of 33, by ShirBlackspots

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Ariakos wrote:
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/Ariakos/Retro-PC%20Vogons/Attic/attic_sis_zpsqkblwmnv.jpg […]
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attic_sis_zpsqkblwmnv.jpg

I just got this board off eBay, and it works. I am having a little trouble figuring out how to get a 2GB compact flash (Transcend 300X) to work with it. It does detect it, and shows it supports LBA, but when it comes down to it, during POST, it shows LBA as off. The random Windows 98 setup disk I found will boot on it, fdisk won't create any partition (after deleting the existing ones) and format fails with "Unable to write BOOT" on it. Scandisk complains about LBA not being enabled, and a full scan doesn't seem to work well. On mine, all 8 cache sockets are populated with 32x8 chips for a total of 256KB.

Board came with an AMD Am5x86 P-75 133MHz CPU and 32MB of RAM, I put an Intel 486-DX4 100MHz CPU on it, and added another 64MB of RAM to it (though it shows 81MB of RAM at boot)