VOGONS


Upgrade P3 or not?

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First post, by buckeye

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Currently I have a slot 1 system made up of the following:

450mhz. P3
384mb ram
Geforce3 Ti200 128mb
40GB HD
SB Live 5.1

My question is will it make much of a difference performance wise getting a slot 1 850mhz. or a 1ghz. slot 370 setup for high end win98 games?
Would it make more sense to just jump to a P4/windows XP setup? I'm new to all this and seems a lot of you out there have a system for each era
DOS/win95/win98/XP.

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 3 of 21, by F2bnp

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It certainly would make sense to go for either setups. Pentium 4 is certainly easier, although a few issues can arise, depending on your sound card and OS of choice. There's also hyperthreading to keep in mind with the Pentium 4.

What games will you be playing on this system?

Reply 4 of 21, by Tertz

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Late Win9x games, wich stil did not know about XP, wanted higher CPU as recommended. So there is a sense to upgrade to P3 600 MHz at least.

Would it make more sense to just jump to a P4/windows XP setup?

If you don't need DOS games and ISA - sure, you may use higher CPU (up to C2D with some MB). Official support for Win9x is still preferable if you want Win9x games.

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Reply 5 of 21, by Darkman

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for late Win9x games a 1Ghz Pentium III would certainly make a big improvement.

that said, I have to ask what chipset is that motherboard using? if its 440BX , the only option you have is the 100Mhz FSB version of the P3 1000 , unless you want to overclock.

sadly the 100Mhz variant is very expensive, and so a Pentium 4 might be a better choice (could also go with an Athlon)

Reply 6 of 21, by PCBONEZ

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Early boards with the 440BX can't always do the full range of P3s.
I have some Intel 440BX boards that can't do P3 over 450MHz.
(And no, it's not a BIOS limitation. It's the chipset revision. Later revs of the same board can do the full range.)
-- So check your manual.
.
Win9x runs great on a 1Ghz Pentium III.
.

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Reply 8 of 21, by PCBONEZ

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The slot version of the 100Mhz FSB of the P3 1.0GHz is the expensive one. ($140 on eBay right now.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/131656503047
The socket 370 version can be had for $10 but you will also need a slotket adapter. http://www.ebay.com/itm/141851283666
At the moment someone is listing the rare-ish 1.1GHz 100MHz FSB socket 370 for $20. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261978340584
.
And yes. Anything 800MHz up would be fine.
I ran Win9x and W2k on a 400MHz laptop for a long time and it worked fine. Wasn't used as a gaming machine though.
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Reply 9 of 21, by boxpressed

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Another option is the Powerleap adapter + fast Celeron/"Tualeron" (100 MHz FSB). I ran a 1.3 GHz Tualeron on my Intel SE440BX-2 this way with no problem except the fan noise.

Reply 10 of 21, by Tertz

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Darkman wrote:

if its 440BX , the only option you have is the 100Mhz FSB version of the P3 1000

Some 440BX MB work at 133 MHz stably too, and Geforce3 cards should work at 89 MHz.

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Reply 11 of 21, by Darkman

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Tertz wrote:
Darkman wrote:

if its 440BX , the only option you have is the 100Mhz FSB version of the P3 1000

Some 440BX MB work at 133 MHz stably too, and Geforce3 cards should work at 89 MHz.

the question is do you want to overclock 15+ year old hardware? yeah its possible, and a small overclock is ok , but you might not want to do that on a regular basis.

although Ive had to say I didnt have much luck with 133Mhz on any 440BX (or 440GX) chipset, issues ranging from the OS not booting, to graphical problems to the motherboard refusing to post.

Reply 12 of 21, by Tetrium

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PCBONEZ wrote:
Early boards with the 440BX can't always do the full range of P3s. I have some Intel 440BX boards that can't do P3 over 450MHz. […]
Show full quote

Early boards with the 440BX can't always do the full range of P3s.
I have some Intel 440BX boards that can't do P3 over 450MHz.
(And no, it's not a BIOS limitation. It's the chipset revision. Later revs of the same board can do the full range.)
-- So check your manual.
.
Win9x runs great on a 1Ghz Pentium III.
.

Not all BX boards will support coppermine, so on some boards you'll be stuck with the 600MHz Katmai, or at least won't without some extra work (mostly because of the minimum voltage the Slot 1 can provide the CPU with, it won't go low enough for Coppermine).

I know ASUS P2B had boards with which some boards would run with Coppermine, some wouldn't and with a couple ones it depended not on the revision (as some boards would run with Coppermine and some wouldn't, even though the revision is identical), but on some small chip (PLL chip?) which was easy to visually identify.

And considering the boards made by Intel themselves, iirc these often did have BIOS's preventing newer chips from being installed but usually other board manufacturers preferred to not make life that hard on their customers 😜

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Reply 13 of 21, by PCBONEZ

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I was mistaken. The early revision of this 440BX board doesn't support P3 at all. Just P2 up to 450MHz.
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Reply 14 of 21, by TELVM

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To run Coppermines the mobo's VRM controller must be compliant with Intel VRM 8.4 Guidelines.

If the VRM controller is of earlier VRM 8.1 or 8.2 spec like the LTC1553 it can only run PIIs and Katmai PIIIs (lowest core voltage is ~2.0V).

See here.

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Reply 15 of 21, by Tertz

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Darkman wrote:

the question is do you want to overclock 15+ year old hardware?

It's another question. While the only life time problem with BX the MB manual mentions is caused by higher voltages, not 133 on BX.

although Ive had to say I didnt have much luck with 133Mhz on any 440BX (or 440GX) chipset, issues ranging from the OS not booting, to graphical problems to the motherboard refusing to post.

For stable 133 MHz you need late revisions of MBs wich supported Coppermines. Your video card, PSU, memory may cause the instability at 133 too.

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Reply 16 of 21, by Anonymous Coward

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Darkman wrote:

sadly the 100Mhz variant is very expensive, and so a Pentium 4 might be a better choice (could also go with an Athlon)

Is it expensive? Isn't this the chip in question for $16 with free shipping?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pentium-III-1GHz-SL5Q … W4AAOSwMmBVsT0N

In my mind, the PII/III between 450-550MHz are the definitive versions. It seems like after those came up they ramped up the CPU speed so quickly everything was obsolete before you could blink. If you're going to upgrade, go all the way with a powerleap adapter and a PIII-S 1.4.

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Reply 17 of 21, by firage

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It went from P233MMX to PII-450 and then from the first PIII to ~PIII-800 in no time at all. Past ~1GHz they were kind of concurrent with P4 already.

My big-red-switch 486

Reply 19 of 21, by Paadam

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Arctic wrote:

Does anyone have any experience with or sources showing boards dying due to 133MHz FSB on the BX chipset?

Lol no 😁 My P3B-F is running with PIII-S 1.4 GHz for more than 10 years now, being used on regular basis for retro gaming. I also tested how far I can go with Celeron overclocking, I strictly sticked to 133MHz FSB, just tried different Tualerons, best I could do stable was 1.3 @ 1.73 Ghz with a late stepping one, 1.2@1.6 was quite usual. I once got 1.4 to 1.86 1.8volts but it was not 100% stable. Did not have late steping one too and I settled with 1.3@1.73 Ghz. Sold that CPU with Powerleap adapter to a friend, still works.

Many 3Dfx and Pentium III-S stuff.
My amibay FS thread: www.amibay.com/showthread.php?88030-Man ... -370-dual)