VOGONS


First post, by johnnynismo

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Howdy folks,

This weekend I had a nice haul at the local Goodwill Computer Store. I got two IBM PS/2s (8550 and 8570 386DX-20+Math-Co!) and a really neat DIGITAL Venturis 575 Pentium 75 system. The Venturis 575 has a mix of ISA and PCI on a riser card and an onboard S3 Trio64 which I upgraded to 2MB of VRAM. I also have a PCI ATI Rage II+DVD 4MB that I wanted to add for some Direct3D performance but when I plugged the sonavagun in I didn't get any POST video from either the onboard or the Rage PCI. There isn't a jumper for the video either. The only BIOS options that look relevant are:

VGA palette snoop:
This option controls how VGA devices handle accesses to their palette
areas. Enabling this option causes special palette behavior (a device
must not respond to normal accesses). Disabling this option causes a
device to treat palette accesses like any other device access.
Enable VGA Palette Snoop when a second video adapter is connected
to the feature connector of the installed VGA adapter for multi-media
devices.

VGA feature connector:
Use with VGA add-in cards to inform card not to claim VGA palette
writes.
Use to inform VGA add-in cards to claim VGA palette writes.

Onboard VGA IRQ:
Select Enabled if the application requires VGA IRQ.

In your experiences, which one of these looks most likely to kill the onboard video so I can run the discrete PCI VGA card?

Thanks for your help guys and gals!

P.S. - I'm asking this BEFORE I mess with these settings to save a little time and not bork my BIOS repeatedly which requires me to pull the Dallas RTC chip to clear it. Kind of a silly design...

Reply 1 of 4, by idspispopd

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Rage II+ for Direct3D? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The first usable 3D from ATI came with the Rage Pro, and even that had its limitations.
Did you check if card works in another machine? It is possible that the machine detected you installed a video card and switched off the internal video, but the Rage card is broken so neither will work.
Also with a Pentium 75 3D acceleration won't get you much. You could try a 3dfx card for low CPU usage, assuming you can get one.
I'd probably keep it with the onboard video which should be excellent for DOS and just pick appropriate games.

Reply 2 of 4, by Tetrium

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idspispopd wrote:
Rage II+ for Direct3D? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The first usable 3D from ATI came with the Rage Pro, and even that had its […]
Show full quote

Rage II+ for Direct3D? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The first usable 3D from ATI came with the Rage Pro, and even that had its limitations.
Did you check if card works in another machine? It is possible that the machine detected you installed a video card and switched off the internal video, but the Rage card is broken so neither will work.
Also with a Pentium 75 3D acceleration won't get you much. You could try a 3dfx card for low CPU usage, assuming you can get one.
I'd probably keep it with the onboard video which should be excellent for DOS and just pick appropriate games.

This seems like the way to go. The Trio should do fine when using this particular rig when used this way.
With 75MHz, there isn't that much point in upgrading the graphics card to a faster one anyway, especially if the onboard one can't even be disabled without needing to get out the soldering iron

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 3 of 4, by johnnynismo

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idspispopd wrote:
Rage II+ for Direct3D? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The first usable 3D from ATI came with the Rage Pro, and even that had its […]
Show full quote

Rage II+ for Direct3D? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The first usable 3D from ATI came with the Rage Pro, and even that had its limitations.
Did you check if card works in another machine? It is possible that the machine detected you installed a video card and switched off the internal video, but the Rage card is broken so neither will work.
Also with a Pentium 75 3D acceleration won't get you much. You could try a 3dfx card for low CPU usage, assuming you can get one.
I'd probably keep it with the onboard video which should be excellent for DOS and just pick appropriate games.

Ah so this system will be used for a specific and silly reason. It exists solely to play Mechwarrior 2 ATI Rage Edition. I'm actually looking for a PCI Rage Pro or Rage Pro LT 8MB (kinda pricey on eBay) now. I also put my Pentium 233MMX in it after disabling the onboard L2 cache (on this board it doesn't work as L3 because it's a crappy implementation of Socket 7). The board can only run it at 166Mhz though.

Also, I got it working. What it turned out to be was an incorrect PCI Latency Timer option for the two slots. I set it to 40h (hex for 64) and all is good. Unfortunately my 2MB Rage II+DVD runs the game like hot garbage. I'm pretty sure it's an inefficiency with the bus as both the PCI and ISA slots are on a riser card and fully populated. Final Reality shows a sub 20MB/s bus transfer rate for 2D and 3D.

Luckily I also recently found an eMachine 333cs with Super Socket 7, an onboard ATI Rage IIC AGP with 4MB of SDRAM, and a Cyrix MII 333(250Mhz) CPU. This system has support for ALL Socket7/Super 7 CPUs! The 233MMX will make a move tonight.

Thanks for your replies guys!

Reply 4 of 4, by idspispopd

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OK, if you want to experiment with MW2 then I understand the Rage II+, that's not silly and all. I got myself some Rage cards for the same reason. I don't think the performance is bad because of the bus/riser card, even if PCI and ISA are on the riser card the buses are not shared. A Rage II+ is simply not very fast, and having only 2MB RAM doesn't help. I wanted to point you to vintage3d.org for benchmarks, but it seems Putas ran MW2 Titanium edition which uses D3D so the comparison would be invalid. Still an interesting read. You could also have a look at http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/ with some performance numbers for TR1, a Rage Pro delivers three times the performance of a Rage II+.
Petty that you can't get a Rage Pro PCI cheap. Perhaps you just have to keep looking? This Rage XL is available worldwide: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271690656675 and I find the price reasonable for shipping included. Of course you need very specific drivers for a Rage XL, according to Gona's page. Or you just have to look for hidden cards. An example for Germany: www.ebay.de/itm/231816809937

I don't understand what you are saying about the 233MMX. That CPU only has L1 cache (the only SS7 CPUs with L2 cache are K2-3/-2+/3+). If you disable the L2 cache you will only have L1 cache. Also I guess (didn't do research on this) that you board doesn't have split voltage so you would run the MMX CPU with 3.3V core voltage. That doesn't necessarily hurt the CPU, but it will use more power and produce more heat so it makes sense it will only run at 166MHz. (I suppose it's not a multiplier issue, the 1.5x setting should be interpreted as 3.5x by the MMX CPU which would be appropriate for 233MHz. Assuming the board can do 66MHz, with 50MHz this would result in 175MHz.)
Good look with the new system. I fear you might still be disappointed with the performance, a Rage IIC is only slightly faster than a II+.