386SX wrote:

... Tagan TG580-U22 , used but seems in good condition. Also it should not be built too many years ago. Is it good? ...

Very good, that thing is built like a tank . 48A rated +5V rail (retrocomp heaven). Panasonic primary caps (excellent), the secondaries look like PCE-Tur (not so good).

Gut pics here: https://picasaweb.google.com/GaleriaHoltek/TaganTG580U22580W

TELVM wrote:

Very good, that thing is built like a tank http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Respect/respect-048.gif . 48A rated +5V rail […]
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386SX wrote:

... Tagan TG580-U22 , used but seems in good condition. Also it should not be built too many years ago. Is it good? ...

Very good, that thing is built like a tank . 48A rated +5V rail (retrocomp heaven). Panasonic primary caps (excellent), the secondaries look like PCE-Tur (not so good).

Gut pics here: https://picasaweb.google.com/GaleriaHoltek/TaganTG580U22580W

Thank! I remember too the one I had was so heavy I couldn't believe it. I'll try to get it even if it's still expensive.
Today I looked around some power supply and nothing more than 26A on the rail. With 20A I had shutdowns (and not even a complete config) so it's not enough for me.. also even if stable I would not be happy to know the psu is at 100% load on a single rail..

TELVM wrote:

Very good, that thing is built like a tank http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Respect/respect-048.gif . 48A rated +5V rail […]
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386SX wrote:

... Tagan TG580-U22 , used but seems in good condition. Also it should not be built too many years ago. Is it good? ...

Very good, that thing is built like a tank . 48A rated +5V rail (retrocomp heaven). Panasonic primary caps (excellent), the secondaries look like PCE-Tur (not so good).

Gut pics here: https://picasaweb.google.com/GaleriaHoltek/TaganTG580U22580W

Actually it looks to have quite an assortment of cheap caps.
PCE-Tur is actually JPCE-Tur, the logo (left end) is so stylized it's hard to see the "J".
The manufacturer was CEC Coils. Sometimes they used "CEC" instead of the JPCE logo.
There were 9 ____-Txx series I know of. The ____-Tur series are GP caps. Not even Low ESR.
Now that I said all that.. I'm not convinced the caps marked CE-WR are a JPCE (CEC) part.

Also those photos show several areas with burned PCB.
Can't know if that's a design issue or if that particular until was over stressed (abused) but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.
.

.

So, which brand you can be sure you'll probably always get high quality psu/components, without having to search for each capacitors inside each psu? 😁

386SX wrote:

So, which brand you can be sure you'll probably always get high quality psu/components, without having to search for each capacitors inside each psu? 😁

Good luck with that.

Every brand has their hits and misses, although OEM companies and platforms show general reliability trends.

386SX wrote:

So, which brand you can be sure you'll probably always get high quality psu/components, without having to search for each capacitors inside each psu? 😁

Here's some theme music for that one...
PSU with Good Caps Theme
.
.
You really just have to do the research.
Keep an ongoing list of good one's you've found for later reference.

For each category (like general office, heavy +5v, uATX, etc) I buy one or two in advance of need so I always have one ready to go and I can replace the spare after the build.
This way I'm not spending time looking when I wanna be building.
.

PCBONEZ wrote:

... Also those photos show several areas with burned PCB. Can't know if that's a design issue or if that particular until was ov […]
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... Also those photos show several areas with burned PCB.
Can't know if that's a design issue or if that particular until was over stressed (abused) but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.
.

Hum yeah, barbecued extra crispy, not good. Also I think there are some Jamicon caps inside.

386SX wrote:

So, which brand you can be sure you'll probably always get high quality psu/components, without having to search for each capacitors inside each psu? 😁

You shouldn't choose just 'by brand', even the most reputed brands offer budget models of just barely passable quality with cheap caps.

Take Corsair for instance, at the bottom of their line there is the VS450 which uses the cheap CWT GPM platform and comes with Crapxon caps inside (review).

Or EVGA, which on one extreme offers the awesome Supernovae T2, P2 and G2, and on the other extreme offers this turd.

Same with Delta, Seasonic and everybody else. They have to do this because most people that will gladly spend hundreds of bucks on mobo, CPU and GPU then feel the need to cheap out on the PSU (they don't know better).

You should choose on a model by model basis, preferably after reading tech reviews of PSU in cuestion.

If you lack the time or the inclination to do research, you should at least ask for advice in forums like here Vogons for retrocomp PSUs, or like the JonnyGURU forum for modern stuff. Most PSU geeks will be glad to help.

Certainly in the case of Delta, they appear to have moved away completely from consumer markets. Aside from their existing contracts with Antec, that is.

So, buy used but watch out for bad caps. Got it.

One reason I like to buy new is that newer PSUs tend to come with overvoltage and overcurrent protection, which is definitely a plus when the target machine is full of rare parts. I'm assuming these features were less prevalent in older (2003-era) power supplies. Is that accurate?

In the long run people will likely have little choice but to learn to re-cap these older power supplies if they want to use them.

maximus wrote:

... One reason I like to buy new is that newer PSUs tend to come with overvoltage and overcurrent protection, which is definitely a plus when the target machine is full of rare parts. I'm assuming these features were less prevalent in older (2003-era) power supplies. Is that accurate?

Generally speaking yes, though as always it depends on each particular model. A quality PSU from 2003 may sport more protections than a gutless wonder from 2016.

So about recapping, which brand to choose for the caps? And what about the values of the capacitors about voltage and u? Higher always better?

nforce4max wrote:

In the long run people will likely have little choice but to learn to re-cap these older power supplies if they want to use them.

Actually...I think this hits the nail on the head.

I've tried soldering a few times like 10 years ago or so, but it never amounted to much. I still have that old solder though but last week I found my old soldering iron was broken (I mean literally broken, bent and stuff) but the soldering wire I at least already have..should be the old-fashioned solder too 🤣!

386SX wrote:

So about recapping, which brand to choose for the caps? And what about the values of the capacitors about voltage and u? Higher always better?

General guidelines for starters. Replace with caps of:

- Same diameter (sometimes a slightly wider cap will fit in if there's enough room, like a 12.5mm replacing a 10mm).

- Same or moderately higher voltage rating V (NEVER of lower voltage).

- Same or moderately higher capacitance uF.

- Same or moderately lower ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance).

- Same or higher max ripple (the higher the better).

- Same or higher endurance (the higher the better).

For PSUs use 105ºC quality jap caps from these brands and series:

· Primary bulk caps (the big ones):

Chemicon KMM, KMQ, KMR, KMW, SMQ
Panasonic EE-TS, TS-HA, TS-HC
Rubycon MXG, SXW

· Secondary output filtering caps:

Chemicon LXY, LXZ, LXV, KY, KYA, KYB, KZE, KZH, KZM, KZN, TMZ
Nichicon HE, HD, PJ, PL, PM, PS, PW, HV
Panasonic FC, FK, FR, FM
Rubycon YXG, YXF, YXJ, ZL, ZLH, ZLG, ZLJ
Sanyo WX

Example of cap series datasheet .pdf: Chemicon KY

TELVM wrote:

General guidelines for starters. Replace with caps of: […]
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386SX wrote:

So about recapping, which brand to choose for the caps? And what about the values of the capacitors about voltage and u? Higher always better?

General guidelines for starters. Replace with caps of:

- Same diameter (sometimes a slightly wider cap will fit in if there's enough room, like a 12.5mm replacing a 10mm).

- Same or moderately higher voltage rating V (NEVER of lower voltage).

- Same or moderately higher capacitance uF.

- Same or moderately lower ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance).

- Same or higher max ripple (the higher the better).

- Same or higher endurance (the higher the better).

For PSUs use 105ºC quality jap caps from these brands and series:

· Primary bulk caps (the big ones):

Chemicon KMM, KMQ, KMR, KMW, SMQ
Panasonic EE-TS, TS-HA, TS-HC
Rubycon MXG, SXW

· Secondary output filtering caps:

Chemicon LXY, LXZ, LXV, KY, KYA, KYB, KZE, KZH, KZM, KZN, TMZ
Nichicon HE, HD, PJ, PL, PM, PS, PW, HV
Panasonic FC, FK, FR, FM
Rubycon YXG, YXF, YXJ, ZL, ZLH, ZLG, ZLJ
Sanyo WX

Example of cap series datasheet .pdf: Chemicon KY

Thank, I will try to find these in shops.
Are there any way to prevent that something will be burned when an older psu cap will fail? Like something to shutdown power supply before something goes wrong like overvoltage on some rails?

386SX wrote:

Are there any way to prevent that something will be burned when an older psu cap will fail? Like something to shutdown power supply before something goes wrong like overvoltage on some rails?

I don't know. Or at least I don't know of any external measures you can take (except maybe for a fuse? There's probably more possibilities but I don't know them as this isn't really my speciality). I do know some PSUs sometimes (depending on model) actually had spots for certain "hardware security measures" but the manufacturer let those spots empty. Perhaps installing the right parts there will help with things?

I never heard of anyone having done this, but if caps can be "upgraded", why shouldn't other bad (or even missing) components be?

Tetrium wrote:

386SX wrote:

Are there any way to prevent that something will be burned when an older psu cap will fail? Like something to shutdown power supply before something goes wrong like overvoltage on some rails?

I don't know. Or at least I don't know of any external measures you can take (except maybe for a fuse? There's probably more possibilities but I don't know them as this isn't really my speciality). I do know some PSUs sometimes (depending on model) actually had spots for certain "hardware security measures" but the manufacturer let those spots empty. Perhaps installing the right parts there will help with things?

I never heard of anyone having done this, but if caps can be "upgraded", why shouldn't other bad (or even missing) components be?

I always wonder it should not be difficult to cut voltages or shut down everything in case something will break on the psu board but also at the mainboard level. Regulators or fuse or anything to save the rest.

386SX wrote:

So about recapping, which brand to choose for the caps? And what about the values of the capacitors about voltage and u? Higher always better?

TELVM gave good information on quality replacement parts and practices.
The hardest part is generally finding the specs for the old caps so you know -which- quality caps to use.
Many crap brands are hard to find datasheets for because they don't publish or the company or series has gone defunct.
In that case you need to ask caps datasheet hoarders like me (and I suspect TELVM and others) or post the question over at badcaps.net.
If all else fails go by experience (what you usually see 'there') but of course you have to see a number of them first so during your learning ask someone in that case also.
.
Many PSUs use these annoying sizes which are nearly impossible to find.
That I know of there are no sources left via main stream suppliers.
I know of one guy that has them custom made and sells them. There used to be more than one guy.
That would be a 10mm diameter at 3300uF (sometimes up to 4700uF) in 16v or sometimes 10v. They are usually Fujhyuu.
If you can't squeeze a 12.5 mm in you are stuck with a single source for Jap caps although so far he isn't gouging.
If you can find some, Teapo SC series has a 10mm 16v 3300uF that works. At least it's better than Fujhyuu.
.
I don't know about where you live, but most places I've lived brick and mortar stores are a wasted effort for appropriate grades of caps.
.

Tetrium wrote:

... I do know some PSUs sometimes (depending on model) actually had spots for certain "hardware security measures" but the manufacturer let those spots empty. Perhaps installing the right parts there will help with things? ...

Yep, sometimes the manufacturer does weird things for his own reasons.

There is the classical cheap gutless wonder that comes devoid of any input filtering components to save costs. These are easy to re-populate.

Oklahoma Wolf of JonnyGURU found a bypassed thermistor inside some PSU. They did this to improve efficiency and achieve the coveted "80+ whatever" certification. In the process they left the PSU completely exposed to potentially harmful inrush currents. 😵

Behemoth reviewed some PSU where they left the primary/secondary Y-capacitor unpopulated ...

... ruining the ripple suppresion, that went skywards 😵 . Just soldering the tiny cheap cyan bugger in its place brought ripple down to spec.

TELVM wrote:

It may be the same (or similar) PSU reviewed in 2008 by Hardware Secrets: […]
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maximus wrote:

Thermaltake TR2 W0070 430W

It may be the same (or similar) PSU reviewed in 2008 by Hardware Secrets:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/thermaltake-pu … -supply-review/

^ Confirmed, it's the same PSU reviewed in 2008 inside a diferent case with one 120mm fan instead of two 80mm in tandem (to make it look 'modern'). I doubt it's still selling on this side of the pond (lacks PFC stuff), but for US vogoners there it is.

However take note that the +12V ripple @ full load looks TERRIBLE:

To quote a badcaps.net guru:

"Problem is with those (primary bulk) caps being so small, the transistors have to work in overdrive to put more current through the transformer to keep the output stable. They usually don't manage it so you see 600~1000mVp-p of ripple on the output in a 100Hz sawtooth wave. See this picture from a "430W" PSU with 350W load. It used 680µF primaries, predicting 340W max output... and the ripple is already through the roof ..."

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2 … 8&postcount=445

So I'd never ask more than ~300W from this thing.

At lower loads (say 200W or less total system draw typical of retrocomps) ripple should look much better.