Just a quick note - it is useless for a case to have a turbo button if there is nowhere to connect it to the motherboard. Turbo buttons stopped being a thing since the Pentium Classics (few Socket 5/7 motherboards support it), but common on 486 and below.
If you REALLY want a single PC to cover the widest period possible, then there is no beating a Super Socket 7 system with a K6-2+ or K6-3+ (the + sign is VERY important), as those can change their multipliers in software and, copuled with enabling and disabling caches, those can cover from 386 games up to late 90s (though for late 90s a Pentium 3 is a much better pick).
The thing is, you need to define what games you want to play first - if none of them are speed sensitive the Pentium 3 will cover them just fine - but if you do you can still disable caches, but unlike the K6+ processors you don't have such a fine degree of control over the speed.

The model III and IV are listed by sites as supporting P3 (100 FSB) - not found BIOS though, as that might need an update

alexanrs wrote:

Just a quick note - it is useless for a case to have a turbo button if there is nowhere to connect it to the motherboard. Turbo buttons stopped being a thing since the Pentium Classics (few Socket 5/7 motherboards support it), but common on 486 and below.

I use my turbo button to switch multipliers on my socket 7 rig.

gladders wrote:

Hi everyone :) I'm new, but this looks like a really interesting forum. […]
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Hi everyone 😀 I'm new, but this looks like a really interesting forum.

I'm feeling the retro urge, and I've never built my own PC before, so I'm going to satisfy both cravings by building a Windows 98 PC. My hope is that this will allow me to enjoy a wide variety of nineties video games, and hopefully a lot of eighties ones too.

I've gathered some components already, listed below:

Soyo SY-6BA+ Slot 1 Motherboard
Intel Pentium III @ 450MHz
Soundblaster Live! CT4620 with CT4660 daughterboard
NVidia Riva-16 TNT2

I'm thinking about 256MB of SDRAM should be plenty for everything too.

So, does this sound a sensible setup, or have I bungled somewhere? I'm concerned particularly about the motherboard/processor matchup. The PDF of the Soyo's instruction manual lists compatibility with Pentium II's, but not III's specifically. It looks like it'll supply the right voltage for it, but could there be other problems? BIOS out of date, maybe?

Also, what power supply would be needed for it? I can't find any clear statement anywhere...(I'm in the UK, by the way)

I'd like to find a crappy old nineties ATX beige tower with a Turbo button, which should help with older game compatibility I hope! Any good suggestions for where to find one?

Comments, suggestions welcome 😀

Hi and welcome 😀

That sounds about right. Don't forget that PSU is also important, though with your setup you could get away with basically anything but the crappiest.

I suppose Riva 16 TNT2 means your TNT2 has 16MB RAM? Then it's probably one of the M64 ones, a budget version of the high-end TNT2 (those came with 32MB, never seen one with 16MB).
Your card is still good though, you could opt for something like a GeForce MX or so (either MX2 or MX4, doesn't matter much in your case, but your CPU will probably be too slow to really notice the difference anyway).
256MB is good for 9x.

Your board is BX I presume? Just be wary that SDRAM sticks with chips larger than 16MB will not show the full amount of memory as BX doesn't support it.

SB Live! is good I think.
Also you basically couldn't have picked a better way to start building a retro rig, as Slot 1 BX boards are one of the most fuzz-free boards to build a rig around 😀 (no guarantees though 😜)

Alex is right btw, Slot 1 isn't the best option for very old DOS games, but since you mention you never build a rig before, I'd suggest to first finish your current project and see how that one turns out, the experience will make future retro rig projects easier.

Good luck! And please spam some pics if you want 😁

gladders wrote:

Intel Pentium III @ 450MHz

It's good to have 600 MHz at least for late Win9x-only games.

> Soundblaster Live! CT4620 with CT4660 daughterboard

For DOS games you need ISA SB Pro compatible card.

> NVidia Riva-16 TNT2

It's better to use Geforce 2, at least.

> I'm thinking about 256MB of SDRAM should be plenty for everything too.

512 Mb will make the machine more universal.

> Also, what power supply would be needed for it?

~250-300 W

> I'd like to find a crappy old nineties ATX beige tower with a Turbo button, which should help with older game compatibility I hope!

This button was used as max on 486. On P3 you may to switch off in BIOS level 1 cache to slow the machine down.

Since that motherboard has ISA slots, you could probably just add a cheap AWE64 Value or an Audician 32 (Yamaha) and use both the SBLive! (great for Windows games) and the ISA card in pure DOS. Then just route the Live!'s line out to the ISA card's Line In, the speakers/headphones to the ISA card's output and set it up in the mixer so that the ISA card will mix the Line In into the output. Should work great then.

I also suggest you get a PCI NIC - the cheap and plentiful Realtek PCI NICs are fine for Windows 98 - since it will make moving files back and forth A LOT easier (just use FileZilla server on the main computer and access the FTP from Windows 98). That way all you'd need is to transfer the NIC's driver to the machine (through a floppy or just burn a CD-R), and then just use the network to transfer everything else. I do recommend running TCPOptimizer (despite them claiming the latest version supports Windows 9x I had to use the 3.x Legacy Version) as Windows 98 comes optimized for dialup connections and this REALLY speeds things up.

For DOS gaming the Riva TNT2 (even the M64 variant) is more than enough - for Windows gaming you could just try it since it is already there, if you find the framerates at the desired resolutions too low for your tastes you could try going for a more powerful card. A Pentium III 450MHz can't exactly drive a very powerful card, a GeForce 2MX will probably be bottlenecked by the CPU anyway, so anything like that should be fine. You can also try something Voodoo3/4 if you find one cheap enough.

alexanrs wrote:

Just a quick note - it is useless for a case to have a turbo button if there is nowhere to connect it to the motherboard. Turbo buttons stopped being a thing since the Pentium Classics (few Socket 5/7 motherboards support it), but common on 486 and below.

I have read the instruction book for the Soyo and it mentions that there is a socket for the Turbo LED and that Soyo has decided to make Turbo permanently 'on' - I presume that means that there's no actual Turbo feature then?

If you REALLY want a single PC to cover the widest period possible, then there is no beating a Super Socket 7 system with a K6-2+ or K6-3+ (the + sign is VERY important), as those can change their multipliers in software and, copuled with enabling and disabling caches, those can cover from 386 games up to late 90s (though for late 90s a Pentium 3 is a much better pick).

Thanks, good suggestions. I'll see how I fare with this build first though. I actually discovered the other day the model of my first ever IBM compatible (An Amstrad 71286!), and would love to hunt that down for the older DOS games.

The thing is, you need to define what games you want to play first - if none of them are speed sensitive the Pentium 3 will cover them just fine - but if you do you can still disable caches, but unlike the K6+ processors you don't have such a fine degree of control over the speed.

Ah, if I only get 75% compatibility I'll still be happy I think 😀

Tetrium wrote:

Hi and welcome 😀

That sounds about right. Don't forget that PSU is also important, though with your setup you could get away with basically anything but the crappiest.

But which voltage do I need, is my question?

I suppose Riva 16 TNT2 means your TNT2 has 16MB RAM? Then it's probably one of the M64 ones, a budget version of the high-end TNT2 (those came with 32MB, never seen one with 16MB).

Your card is still good though, you could opt for something like a GeForce MX or so (either MX2 or MX4, doesn't matter much in your case, but your CPU will probably be too slow to really notice the difference anyway).

Honestly, I can't tell. I've looked online at comparisons and it doesn't seem obvious that the '16' means 16MB or otherwise. If I lose out on some super-high-end games I'll not get too disappointed. It'll give me an excuse to build an XP machine, and most of those high-end games should work on that!

256MB is good for 9x.
Your board is BX I presume? Just be wary that SDRAM sticks with chips larger than 16MB will not show the full amount of memory as BX doesn't support it.

Yeah, it's 440BBX.

So does that mean that 256MB won't be any good? If I get 4 x 32MB chips, I'll only get 128MB showing? So I may as well just get 4 x 16MB chips, and settle for 128MB, right?

SB Live! is good I think. Also you basically couldn't have picked a better way to start building a retro rig, as Slot 1 BX board […]
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SB Live! is good I think.
Also you basically couldn't have picked a better way to start building a retro rig, as Slot 1 BX boards are one of the most fuzz-free boards to build a rig around 😀 (no guarantees though 😜)

Alex is right btw, Slot 1 isn't the best option for very old DOS games, but since you mention you never build a rig before, I'd suggest to first finish your current project and see how that one turns out, the experience will make future retro rig projects easier.

Good luck! And please spam some pics if you want 😁

Thanks, that's encouraging! I think I'll have to guess with the processor then, and hope the board accepts a Pentium III. If it doesn't, a quick Pentium II replacement shouldn't be a bank-breaker 😀

You can use 256MB memory sticks as long as they have 8 memory chips on each side as 16 chips x 16MB = 256MB

The maximum memory the board can take is 4x256MB = 1GB but its not adviced to use the 4th memory slot with BX boards and using more than 512MB creates some problems with Windows 9x.

I would use one or two 256MB sticks or two or three 128 MB sticks or what ever combination of max 3 sticks totalling at least 256MB (and at most 512MB) you can find, make sure they are PC100 CL2 or PC133.

gladders wrote:

But which voltage do I need, is my question? […]
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Tetrium wrote:

Hi and welcome 😀

That sounds about right. Don't forget that PSU is also important, though with your setup you could get away with basically anything but the crappiest.

But which voltage do I need, is my question?

I suppose Riva 16 TNT2 means your TNT2 has 16MB RAM? Then it's probably one of the M64 ones, a budget version of the high-end TNT2 (those came with 32MB, never seen one with 16MB).

Your card is still good though, you could opt for something like a GeForce MX or so (either MX2 or MX4, doesn't matter much in your case, but your CPU will probably be too slow to really notice the difference anyway).

Honestly, I can't tell. I've looked online at comparisons and it doesn't seem obvious that the '16' means 16MB or otherwise. If I lose out on some super-high-end games I'll not get too disappointed. It'll give me an excuse to build an XP machine, and most of those high-end games should work on that!

256MB is good for 9x.
Your board is BX I presume? Just be wary that SDRAM sticks with chips larger than 16MB will not show the full amount of memory as BX doesn't support it.

Yeah, it's 440BBX.

So does that mean that 256MB won't be any good? If I get 4 x 32MB chips, I'll only get 128MB showing? So I may as well just get 4 x 16MB chips, and settle for 128MB, right?

SB Live! is good I think. Also you basically couldn't have picked a better way to start building a retro rig, as Slot 1 BX board […]
Show full quote

SB Live! is good I think.
Also you basically couldn't have picked a better way to start building a retro rig, as Slot 1 BX boards are one of the most fuzz-free boards to build a rig around 😀 (no guarantees though 😜)

Alex is right btw, Slot 1 isn't the best option for very old DOS games, but since you mention you never build a rig before, I'd suggest to first finish your current project and see how that one turns out, the experience will make future retro rig projects easier.

Good luck! And please spam some pics if you want 😁

Thanks, that's encouraging! I think I'll have to guess with the processor then, and hope the board accepts a Pentium III. If it doesn't, a quick Pentium II replacement shouldn't be a bank-breaker 😀

Which voltage?
It's already mentioned, just get some 250W or above, unless you want to add a FX5900u or something, but even a GF2 won't eat up too much power

256MB with 16 chips (8 on each side) will be fine almost all of the times, you'll get full memory. 256MB with 8 chips and you'll likely see 128MB. Possibly it won't work at all but from experience it mostly will. 128MB with 8 chips will be fine almost all of the times, etc.

Easier is to just make a pic and show us the card. M64 and the standard TNT2s are very recognizable most of the time.

Why would you need to guess?

Give us a pic of the CPU and possibly the board also. Btw, 450MHz will be a Katmai P3, not a Coppermine and it's the Coppermines which have a lot more potential compatibility issues (mostly due to the board not being able to supply a low enough voltage to the CPU). Katmais in a board which don't support them will either display as a Pentium 2 and perhaps in some cases it won't boot. Make sure you clean it's contacts before installing the CPU (with either rubbing alcohol or a pencil eraser are easy, cheap and effective) and be sure you pushed the CPU cartridge in all the way.

BIOS update: https://web.archive.org/web/20000620121102/ht … ww.soyousa.com/

It claims to support Via CIII, so I doubt it won't work with Katmai Pentium 3.

gladders wrote:

If I lose out on some super-high-end games

TNT2 was released in 1999 and your CPU relates to that time. You may get issues with speed in Win9x-only games released later (in 2000-2001 years, - there were more than some): <30fps, lower graphics settings for good gameplay. As you have 16 Mb card, most probably it's not normal TNT2 card, but M64 wich makes things worse - at 800x600 and 16 bit color it's close to TNT2, in other case you get ~ -30% fps, or maybe less on 2000-... year games.
If you want full-fledged Win9x machine - check recommended requirements for 2001 year games.

It'll give me an excuse to build an XP machine

There is no guarantee a game made for win9x will run good on XP.

Tertz wrote:

There is no guarantee a game made for win9x will run good on XP.

That's a fair point. Well, I can always upgrade later. That's the great things about PCs, being modular.

Thanks for the advice everyone! I haven't got a chance to put it all together right now due to personal business and stuff, but I'm glad that I've not gone entirely up the wrong tree. This should be fun.

Aw man, suddenly got nostalgic for RTCW multiplayer, and happy to note that my build would just meet the recommended requirements 😀

Tetrium wrote:

Give us a pic of the CPU and possibly the board also. Btw, 450MHz will be a Katmai P3, not a Coppermine and it's the Coppermines which have a lot more potential compatibility issues (mostly due to the board not being able to supply a low enough voltage to the CPU). Katmais in a board which don't support them will either display as a Pentium 2 and perhaps in some cases it won't boot. Make sure you clean it's contacts before installing the CPU (with either rubbing alcohol or a pencil eraser are easy, cheap and effective) and be sure you pushed the CPU cartridge in all the way.

Motherboard attached...

Processor...

...and NVidia TNT2.

Gladders...are those pics of your hardware? And I mean your components you pictures with your own camera? Or did you simply download them from somewhere?
Anyway, the pics look nice, but the name of the pics have weird names which resemble the ones I downloaded from certain second-hand seller sites.
Anyway, your graphics card's GPU is a Vanta-16, which is iirc the slowest of these budget cards. It's bracket looks like one of those low profile ones.

The CPU pic doesn't show any of it's markings, it's only good for showing it's a Slot 1 CPU but we already knew that 😜

Tetrium wrote:

Gladders...are those pics of your hardware? And I mean your components you pictures with your own camera? Or did you simply download them from somewhere?

I got the items off eBay - these are the pictures that represented them on their page. I don't have my own photos and I can't dig out the components to take photos.

Anyway, your graphics card's GPU is a Vanta-16, which is iirc the slowest of these budget cards. It's bracket looks like one of those low profile ones.

Ah, phooey 🙁 Oh well, it was only a fiver. I'll shop around for a better card. Someone mentioned a GeForce4 MX 460 - they don't seem outlandishly expensive.

The CPU pic doesn't show any of it's markings, it's only good for showing it's a Slot 1 CPU but we already knew that 😜

Aw ok. I'll see if I can dig out the processor tomorrow and take a snap.

Whenever shopping for an old NVidia card always reference this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Quadro

You can usually find Quadro cards cheaper than their GeForce brethen, and they were professional cards so you know it is high quality and has good analog output. It is also more common for old Quadro cards to have DVI connectors than GeForces. I'd take a Quadro4 380/580 XGL over an MX460 any day. For your machine a Quadro2 Pro would be a good card. Heck, even the original Quadro is already faster than a fully fledged RIVA TNT2.