Apogee vs. Tseng (ET4000) \ VOGONS

Apogee vs. Tseng (ET4000)

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First post, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2016-09-29, 06:44

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Hi,

recently I started to put an A2286 PC-Bridgeboard in my Amiga 2000.

It has a 286/8Mhz. Because it can do only MDA/CGA, I was searching for the perefect ISA-GraphicsCard for it. I tested a lot of differnt Cards/Chips. It turned out that the Tseng ET4000 was one of only a view that worked in that circumstances. Most Cards do not work. Mostly I got no picture at all, or a Garbabe picture of flickering Text. I think it's because of the Resources that are some kind of special in that environment.

As I told you the ET4000 was fantastic. VERY! fast with a very good picture quality. I use the Diamond Speedstar VGA with 1MB Vram. With this card I have no vertical lines on my 15" Nec TFT. With most over cards I do have vertical Lines clearly visiable in greater areas with the same color.

Now I began to put some games on it. Because the machine does not have so much CPU Power, I thought about some old Apogee-Titels, but they have lots of issues with my configuration.

Apogee did produce Games in the early 90's but they mostly/always made them for EGA. A VGA Card could display EGA-Gfx, but if the routines demand special EGA features or timing, I think it depends of the VGA-Chip if he could handle the calls from the software correct.

I really don't know why Apogee did the EGA-Stuff, because VGA was already common at the early 90's. They should have done them in VGA-16 Colors, but they sticked to EGA up to 1994/1995.

My Problem is, that I am very satisfied with the ET4000 in my setup, but I have lot's of Problems with the EGA-Games from Apogee.

- Keen (Flickering all over the screem if I jump)
- Ddave (Flickering all over the screem if I jump)
- Sagent (Flickering all over the screem if I jump)
- Ccaves (has only a bit stuttering) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Caves
- ...

I searched the internet for a special ET4000-Fix for the old Apogee titles but I could not find such a thing. Some games do have a SVGA-Patch, but not all and if I choose it, things get even worse.

- Is it possible to patch the game?
- Is it possible to add a tsr to emulate EGA-Calls correctly?
- Do I have to change the gfx-card and what gfx-chip do I have to choose?
- Any other advice?

Thx
Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 1 of 21, by brostenen

Posted on 2016-09-29, 11:41

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ET 4000 cards are great. Fast and all that.
If you happen to come across an Cirrus Logic 5428/5429/5430, you might want to give that a go. Though not as fast as 4000's, they might offer you better compatibility. That might be worth to sacrifice.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 2 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2016-09-29, 12:21

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Great idea, thx, but all CL54x do not work. I get no picture at all. Must be some kind of resource-conflict with the bridgeboard-environment.
Even if I take all other cards ot of the PC-Side of the Amiga, it still does not work for the CL cards. For ATI-CardÄs it's the same. Trident 9xxx
also do not work. (Flickering coloured text)

Therefore I thoght about PATCHES/FIXES or anything like that, because if this does not work, then I have only two options:

1. stay with the fast/crispy clear diamond et4000 and ignore old funny apogee-stuff
or
2. think about getting a other compatible VGA-Card like "OAK" or "Paradise"

Number 1. is my absolute favorite 😀

Last edited by dr.zeissler on 2016-09-29, 12:39. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 3 of 21, by PhilsComputerLab

Posted on 2016-09-29, 12:28

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Got any Trident cards? They aren't the fastest, but faster than the OAK.

I never play these old games, so I don't have any experience regarding compatibility. For some reason I just don't get into these games 😊

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Reply 4 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2016-09-29, 12:38

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Hi Phil, currently I ownly own the T9000 that does not work. Perhaps I should go for 8900/8800 or so.

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Reply 5 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2016-09-29, 12:47

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Did you knew that the Lemming-Cracktro by Razor1911 works with such a Low-End-Machine? It's really fantastic...I should make a (low-end) video of this running on 286/8/ET4000.

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Reply 6 of 21, by carlostex

Posted on 2016-09-29, 12:53

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There's a program to change ET4000 compatibility mode. You can try it in EGA mode but i don't know if it will solve the scrolling issue.

Reply 7 of 21, by BloodyCactus

Posted on 2016-09-29, 13:09

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maybe your 8mhz is too slow for the game to do massive screen updates? I know the A2386SX was slower than a real PC with the same cpu in it. MAybe the 8mhz 286 bridgeboard is running slower than 8mhz?

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Reply 8 of 21, by AnacreonZA

Posted on 2016-09-29, 13:12

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I'm assuming you have already enabled the internal SVGA-fix options in games that have them? Other than that I'm not sure - maybe one day someone will port those games over to Amiga natively like the recent ports of Keen Dreams and Catacomb Abyss. Those ports do need at least a 68030 Amiga though.

I don't remember if the ET4000 card I have needs those options selected on an actual DOS machine though. I know I mostly needed those options when playing through a PCI VGA card.

Reply 9 of 21, by Jo22

Posted on 2016-09-29, 13:56

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BloodyCactus wrote:
maybe your 8mhz is too slow for the game to do massive screen updates? I know the A2386SX was slower than a real PC with the same cpu in it. MAybe the 8mhz 286 bridgeboard is running slower than 8mhz?

I wonder the same. Perhaps it also has to use wait states ? My 286 box ran the ISA bus at 12MHz, I believe.

Edit:@Doc Perhaps your T9000 BIOS just isn't 16bit compatible ? My 9000 cards never worked in my 286es, but in 386 PCs.
With the 8800/8900 I never had any issues.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 10 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2016-09-29, 15:53

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Good point. Perhaps I get an 8800/8900 in the near future. You won't believe what that small machine is capable of 😀
btw. I believe Sagent does not have a "SVGA-Fix" ...but I'll check this later...

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 11 of 21, by brostenen

Posted on 2016-09-29, 16:01

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That is strange. My Unisys 286 10mhz is running fine with a Trident 9000.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 12 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2016-09-29, 16:49

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Do you know what a A2286 BB is ?

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2286at
http://www.l8r.net/technical/bridgeboard.html
http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computi … geboard_faq.htm

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Reply 13 of 21, by kanecvr

Posted on 2016-09-29, 16:56

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Commander Keen has a "SVGA fix" setting in it's configuration menu. It fixed the flickering on my 386.

Reply 14 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2018-08-17, 12:10

dr.zeissler Offline

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carlostex wrote:
There's a program to change ET4000 compatibility mode. You can try it in EGA mode but i don't know if it will solve the scrolling issue.

Thx for this advice! It does in fact solve this Problem. With "vmode EGA" the Picture is smaller on my TFT, but the flickering effects are gone.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 15 of 21, by Cga.8086

Posted on 2018-08-20, 03:07

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can you show us where such program is and what you did to fix it?

i know a friend with a tseng videocard

Reply 16 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2018-08-20, 05:06

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it's within the Diamond-Speed-Star Drivers and it's called "vmode.exe".
It fixes also the 1024x768 60hz on my tft by choosing "Nec3FG" without this I get 43hz interlaced in 1024x768 and my TFT does not display this.

Diamond Speedstar VGA ISA video card, quick test

Attachments

Filename

DIAMOND_SPEEDSTAR_VGA_WIN_31_DRIVER.exe

File size

1.35 MiB

Downloads

64 downloads

File license

Fair use/fair dealing exception

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 17 of 21, by lordmogul

Posted on 2018-08-21, 08:50

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The Tseng ET4000 are amazingly fast, even faster are the ET6000 & ET6100
But there are some compatability issues where a S3 Trio or CL54xx is just the better option.

Got a ET6000 around (sexy Hercules Dynamite 128/Video) and could test some stuff with it, and how it runs compared to a GF3, Mach64 VT2 and CL-GD5340

Reply 18 of 21, by dr.zeissler

Posted on 2019-05-30, 08:10

dr.zeissler Offline

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On my ET4000 the starfield is correct. Test this on your card please.
The text and the scrollers are correct on this nxs too.
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=69306
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5896

Interestingly speedball2 uses a strage EGA mode. VGA (16colors) is just fine. Choosing EGA on ET4000 I get no picture and a message that the TFT is out of sync. It can be fixed if I run "vmode EGA" to switch the et4000 in EGA mode.

A really cool experience was letting speedball2 run simultaniously on these machines.

Amiga 2000 / A2286 Brideboard (Dualmonitor-Setup)
MegaSTE
A4000 (Archimedes)

The guys from the bitmap-brother's know how to code!

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 19 of 21, by Grzyb

Posted on 2019-05-30, 09:25

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lordmogul wrote:
The Tseng ET4000 are amazingly fast, even faster are the ET6000 & ET6100

Fast? OK.
Faster than ET6x00? Now this I can't believe. Can you support it with some benchmark results?

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

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