Ahh, The 486 platform. I have no idea why I and so many other people love them so much.

Anyways, your lineup is actually VERY similar to what I am doing. I currently have a 486 and Pentium 3 machine, and I am in the process of assembling my Pentium Pro machine (Similar to an MMX).

I can just answer the questions to the best of my ability.

1: I suggest something like a DX4-100 or 120. The reason I say this is that I do think it will mesh well with a Pentium MMX. The MMX absolutely steamrolls even a DX4 as the performance clock to clock is WAY higher on an MMX compared to a 486. You can almost always underclock these CPUs too, so long as you don't get one with a built in multiplier (like an overdrive chip), and even then you can change the base clock. You could in theory have anything from a DX2-50 to a DX4-120 just by having a DX4-100 (what I have, but mine is AMD).

2: Ehh, I would go with maybe an early AWE32, a GUS is always nice, but expensive. SB16 is probably the most period accurate, or a Sound Blaster Pro/Pro 2. Graphics maybe a Mach32 or if you want to go a bit later a Trio32 or 64. Either that or insert cirrus logic/tseng labs chip from the time, I've never messed with any of those, so I wouldn't know. I'm an ATI or S3 guy for early graphics. Any I/O card would be fine really, they don't change much. If you want to really piss yourself off you can use a non ATAPI CD drive (proprietary interface) and if you want to be cool, but still broke, SCSI is always a neat option.

3: Basically if you want absolutely the BEST you can get, throw in an MT-32 and SC-55 with a switch on a fully MPU-401 compatible interface. Get a Sound Blaster Pro 2, and mesh it with a kick ass VLB SCSI card. Don't go over 32MB of RAM, but no less than 16. Don't go over 2GB in hard drive size (there is never ANY need to). Get a fully SCSI compatible CD drive for your SCSI card, and see what you can do about a possible 15K RPM drive (If they were even a thing back then). For graphics I'd suggest the same as my previous options, unless you want a 3D Blaster VLB which is a case of good friggin luck even finding one.

VLB is a dual edged sword. On one hand it's the craziest card interface you will ever use full stop. This also presents the fact that it's not only crazy in design, it can be crazy getting it to work, and you CAN be stuck with fully incompatible hardware that you will NOT be able to use together. However, I took the gamble and it paid off big time for me. I couldn't be happier with my VLB system and it remains one of my coolest computers in my collection.

This is honestly a game of why are you doing this. This isn't an insulting question, it's a legitimate one. Are you here to revisit old hardware you have nostalgia for, or are you here to build the machine you always wanted but could never afford at the time? Are you here to explore history you weren't around to see, or are you here to do the craziest thing you can think of. There is a design philosophy for everybody. I am here to visit history I was not around to see, and to build machines that for the time would have made any enthusiast cream their jeans. It's up to you how you want to play this.

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If you have a Pentium then there’s no point having a 486 > 33Mhz IMO. The Pentium will do anything a 66MHz + machine can do and do it better, but a 33 MHz 486 starts to get useful for speed sensitive games.

Well, I wasn't born to see the 20th century, so a lot of this is history to a period I wasn't able to witness. I am a bit of a historian in my own thoughts, and a lot of the research and virtual puttering around I do is just an attempt to better understand the past out of a matter of extreme curiosity.

I also like the fact that I can spend 300 dollars and get an absolutely decked out Pentium Pro machine that would have cost thousands when new.

I can give you the raw specs of my machines here:

486 -
CPU: Am486-DX4-100-SV8B, Clocked at 120mhz (40x3) with 8k of on-chip L1 Cache using a write back policy
Memory: 32MB of SIMM72 FPM DRAM (one SIMM)
Motherboard: DataExpert ExpertBoard EXP-4045 Socket 3 VLB with 256k of L2 Cache
Video card: Diamond Multimedia Stealth SE VLB using an S3 Trio32 chipset with 2MB of video memory
Sound card: AWE32/SB32 CT:3670 with 2MB of expanded memory (SIMM30)
I/O card: DTC VLB EIDE dual channel card (forgot which model) with dual RS-232, Centronics, and Gameport
Hard Drive: WD Caviar 2GB Intelligent IDE drive

The rest is pretty standard, PC-DOS 2000, combo 5.25 and 3.5inch floppy drive, 52x IDE drive (oldest drive I have).

Pentium Pro (WIP):
CPU: Pentium Pro 200Mhz 256k L2 Cache
Motherboard: Stock Intel OEM board (forgot the model number, but it's the real basic one Intel made) FX chipset
RAM: 4x32MB of SIMM72 EDO RAM
Video card: ATI Mach64GX PCI (2MB)
3D card: Diamond Multimedia Monster 3D Voodoo 1 4MB Card
Sound card: AWE32/SB32 CT;3670 (my favourite card) no expanded memory
SCSI Controller: PCI Ultra160 controller with internal and external 68pin SCSI.
Hard drive: Worlddisk (generic) 15,000RPM 147GB Ultra320 SCA80 enterprise drive (WAY overkill, but I really want to use that drive just to be as overkill as possible with that board)

Possible additions include a USB/IEEE1394 card, and future additions may be an ISA hardmodem (I have one, but debating if my 486 deserves it more).
Going to try Windows 95C on it if I can get the hard drive working reasonably. LBA Limitations means only 137GB drives are supported, but to what extent I need to figure out.

Pentium 3:
CPU: Pentium 3 450Mhz 512k L2 Cache (Slot 1)
Motherboard: Intel SE440BX-2 Slot 1 AGP motherboard
GPU: ASUS NVidia RIVA TNT2 AGP with onboard capture card
Memory: 384MB of SDRAM over 3 DIMMs
Sound card: SB Live! Value
Networking: 10/100 PCI Ethernet card and 56k PCI softmodem
Hard drive: 40GB Seagate Barracuda IDE

Runs Windows 98SE, my most capable retro machine, is modern enough for me to consider using it as a print machine for my documents (I use an Epson dot matrix ribbon printer)

badmojo wrote:

If you have a Pentium then there’s no point having a 486 > 33Mhz IMO. The Pentium will do anything a 66MHz + marching can do and do it better, but a 33 MHz 486 starts to get useful for speed sensitive games.

It's not about what it CAN do, it's about having a period correct machine. An i7-4790k CAN run almost all DOS and early Windows games through DOSBox and VMWare, but it's not period accurate. He's looking for something that is appropriate for the time period to play it on, and as a next step in vintage computer collecting.

I agree with badmojo. If you already have a Pentium MMX @ 233 MHz and are looking to build additional machines to compliment it that have:

1. Best CPU speed and processor (or a few) to have wide coverage of games, while staying as far away from pentiums as possible and to have minimal overlap with my 233MMX machine (no plans to mess with it's speed).
2. Best and generally currently widely available time-appropriate components to build the machine with the processor (#1) from.
3. The Best time-appropriate components for the machine. Period.

You probably want to dial it back quite a bit from 233 and build something you feel can deliver value to what I will call your "gaming spectrum." One thing on my back burner is restoring my old 486SX-33 to work alongside my Pentium MMX @ 200MHz. It needs a little more TLC. In the meantime, I put together a 486DX2-66 machine and used the VLB video card (Diamond Stealth 24) from the SX-33. I don't really know if I will work it into the gaming picture alongside the 200 - I feel a 486 25 or 33 would be more advantageous as most games that would really need that 66 Mhz would most likely love the 200.

Wing Commander is often a staple when it comes to speed sensitive gaming. The game ran fairly well (and "normally") on my friend's 486 25 MHz.

There is a temptation for a lot of retro builders to pick a platform (i.e. 486 with X clock speed) and then PUSH it. If you want to do that, that is cool. But I would say build an average joe's 486 machine from say 1992 and focus on those time-appropriate components. It will be a much more useful system when paired with your MMX.

Also, a mobo that would be able to make the DX4 to work is harder to find than regular 486 mobos. (except if you love PCChips)

I'ts been like 6 years I'm looking for a mobo that able to run 3.3v CPUs with VLB slots. At the moment I have an Aopen/Acer AP43 for my 5x86 that I really love, but it has PCI instead of VLB. But my DX4 will definitely go in a VLB system.

On the other hand, I've seen several VLB mobos that supported only 5v CPUs (even though most of them were dead due to horrible varta batteries)

Ampera wrote:

It's not about what it CAN do, it's about having a period correct machine. An i7-4790k CAN run almost all DOS and early Windows games through DOSBox and VMWare, but it's not period accurate. He's looking for something that is appropriate for the time period to play it on, and as a next step in vintage computer collecting.

What?

I built a 486 dx2/66 and while I love it to bits, my Pentium 233 MMX does everything it can do better, and more besides

Win3.1, Win98, 3DFX Voodoo, MIDI. When I disable CPU caches I get a 386DX/40 equivalent. I can't bring myself to part with the 486, but I also have no use for it

What I do when two computers are "overlapping" (even though I've so many of them that It's not enough ... At least that's useful to play in lan !) is to try to make their configuration as different as possible. Here are my main retro computers :

My 386 SX 25 has a sound blaster 2.0 with the CMS chips on it.

My 486 DX33 has a sound blaster pro 2

My 5x86 has a GUS + a Sound blaster 16 with a korg wavetable

My pentium 3 450 has a voodoo 2 SLI with a yamaha YMF744 and soon a sound blaster AWE64 as well as a card with an aureal vortex 2 chip

My pentium 3 1GHz has a radeon 9550 ans a Yamaha YMF724 sound card.

So as you can see, they all tend to overlap performance-wize, but they all have different expansion cards that make them kinda unique. My p3 450 is probably the one with the highest expansion card count, but that's still not enough to cover everything with the best quality. My 5x86 has a GUS, and that's already a reason to use it when playing games with MOD music ^^ (and the SB16 is really cool with it's wavetable. My 386 has a sound card with CMS chips so that's rather unique as well and my P3 1GHz has a really powerful GPU as is actually my fastest retro PC. I could build a faster one, but so far I don't feel the appeal to play XP games)

Generic 486 question:

Are later Dell Dimension 486 (DX2) systems any good?

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486 hardware can be hard to get, I would see what's available first, but for the most part motherboards can support the entire 486 family of CPU's
Don't overlook OEM PC's, they are the ones with nice things like Integrated I/O controller and ps2 ports.
VL-BUS motherboards is nice but expensive and as Ampera said can be tricky to work with.
PCI motherboards on the other hand give you more options for video (you can still go ISA anyway)

DX2/66 IS the 486, but its already too fast for games affected by speed issues so will be just a slower version of your MMX PC.
If you don't want a SX, slowest DX chip you can find?
Deksor's idea of giving it a special role, say SB Pro/MT32 games is a good idea, that I also do.

Mach32 will be fine, my DX2/66 has a Mach64 onboard so is period correct. Its more of a Windows graphics card then dos gaming, but again, its already lost speed to the MMX so not a big issue.

I would recommend a network card, Windows for Workgroups plays nice with Win9x for file sharing, and of course, you can fire up dos network gaming and play against your MMX and P3 builds. Any card that you can find DOS drivers for will be fine.

ElectroMan wrote:

So far I'm leaning in the direction of 486 DX and yes, SB Pro 2.
I'm still thinking about getting both DX+DX2 cpus, but one board. Will it work with both?

If the board supports the DX2 it certainly will support the DX too. Both processors are 5V (well most DX2s are 5V) so the board doesn't even have to support 3V CPUs. PCI boards are late ones though, so they will most probably support 3V DX2/DX4 processors anyway.

The nicest thing is that you can probably get away with switching between DX and DX2 without touching a single jumper.