VOGONS


Reply 60 of 151, by DosFreak

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Downloaded latest bios for my Precision 5510 and my system is now patched.

My MSI gt72 2qe still has no BIOS update and I doubt my parents Dell Latitude D630 and D520 (both running Windows 10) ever will. Hopefully MS can get a microcode update pushed.

You'd hope that something like this would get people to realize how much the Internet of Things is bullshit but no one cares and it's only going to get worse.

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Reply 61 of 151, by Joey_sw

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spiroyster wrote:

Looks like Meltdown and Spectre already run on old hardware 😵

Interestingly in the Meltdown game, theres:

the player must win in order to get a password. Once all six passwords have been retrieved the eighth computer allows the player access to an end-of-level game which 

retreving passwords, that what one of meltdown usages are for.

-fffuuu

Reply 62 of 151, by swaaye

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I know of 5 Core 2 machines out there that I work on occasionally so that's on my mind.

I doubt that most systems older than 2 years will get BIOS updates. People were hacking their own management engine firmware updates for systems just a month ago. I suppose one can probably inject microcode updates too somehow. If they are made. Not super fun.

Reply 63 of 151, by chinny22

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swaaye wrote:

I know of 5 Core 2 machines out there that I work on occasionally so that's on my mind.

I doubt that most systems older than 2 years will get BIOS updates. People were hacking their own management engine firmware updates for systems just a month ago. I suppose one can probably inject microcode updates too somehow. If they are made. Not super fun.

Wonder if HP Enterprise will give them away for free (You can only download BIOS updates with a valid support contract) Was final straw, I recommend Dell servers now.

For all our old PC's running anything below Windows 7 its not a big deal. Those OS's are already have known security issues not patched. This is just one more.

Reply 64 of 151, by DosFreak

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Supposedly any OS below Windows 10 is affected more by the Windows patch for performance.

I'm hoping someone keeps track on the companies that patch their old equipment. That way we know what companies to buy from in the future.....

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Reply 65 of 151, by Malvineous

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chinny22 wrote:

Wonder if HP Enterprise will give them away for free (You can only download BIOS updates with a valid support contract) Was final straw, I recommend Dell servers now.

For all our old PC's running anything below Windows 7 its not a big deal. Those OS's are already have known security issues not patched. This is just one more.

Oh man don't get me started on HP and needing to pay for a support contract to get firmware downloads. I had to beg and plead with the support to get a firmware update for an old LTO drive I bought second-hand. Never touching HP stuff ever again after that ordeal.

Absolutely correct about the old OSes though. Many of them have known, unpatched vulnerabilities, often much more severe than Meltdown and Spectre. It's only worth worrying about for recent systems.

Reply 66 of 151, by DosFreak

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Looks like the vmware microcode driver doesn't work for meltdown
https://labs.vmware.com/flings/vmware-cpu-mic … er#instructions
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/274 … e-Data-File?v=t

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?987 … ARM-CPUs/page24
https://www.win-raid.com/t154f16-Tool-Guide-N … r-quot-UBU.html

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Reply 67 of 151, by swaaye

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https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/cpu-securi … re.60577/page-7

msxyz, post: 2018101, member: 6609 wrote:

Today I've been able to compile the Spectre proof of concept into a working program under Windows. I've tested it on several Core iX processors from different eras (from Sandy Bridge to Skylake) and the vulnerability is definitively there. The program crashes on a old Intel Core Quad running Windows 7 64, though. After trying several different compiler options, I followed a suggestion I found on a github discussion and replaced the part that invokes the rdtsc and rdtscp commands with a counter loop. By doing this, I've been able to run the modified code also on the machine with the Core Quad processor and retrieve about half of the memory cells the program tries to spoof. Supposedly some people were able to use a similar exploit even on older Pentium M machines. Scary!

On a funny side note, somebody tried running the code on several online C compilers like this: https://www.jdoodle.com/c-online-compiler and it works, too! 😁

Reply 68 of 151, by bjwil1991

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My Presario C700 has the second level Spectre vulnerability and the Meltdown as well. Unfortunately, there are no patches for the 32-bit version of linux, only the 64-bit version of linux has the patches available.

Edit (1/14/18 @ 13:12 or 1:12pm): My laptop has all 3 vulnerabilities after installing the 64-bit version of linux.

Last edited by bjwil1991 on 2018-01-14, 18:11. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 70 of 151, by bjwil1991

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Here are my results after installing the 64-bit version of linux:

2018-01-14-143026_659x634_scrot.png
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2018-01-14-143026_659x634_scrot.png
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Reply 71 of 151, by MERCURY127

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I just now check my P3 machine for this vulnbs.
In short: YES. Pentium 3 IS vulnerable.

Spectre and Meltdown mitigation detection tool v0.31 Checking for vulnerabilities against running kernel Linux 3.14.56 #1 SMP […]
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Spectre and Meltdown mitigation detection tool v0.31

Checking for vulnerabilities against running kernel Linux 3.14.56 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Nov 4 15:19:30 GMT-8 2015 i686
CPU is Pentium III (Coppermine)
Will use vmlinux image vmlinuz
Will use kconfig /proc/config.gz
Will use no System.map file (accuracy might be reduced)
We're missing some kernel info (see -v), accuracy might be reduced

CVE-2017-5753 [bounds check bypass] aka 'Spectre Variant 1'
* Checking count of LFENCE opcodes in kernel: UNKNOWN
> STATUS: UNKNOWN (couldn't check (couldn't find your kernel image in /boot, if you used netboot, this is normal))

CVE-2017-5715 [branch target injection] aka 'Spectre Variant 2'
* Mitigation 1
* Hardware (CPU microcode) support for mitigation
* The SPEC_CTRL MSR is available: NO
* The SPEC_CTRL CPUID feature bit is set: YES
* The kernel has set the spec_ctrl flag in cpuinfo: NO
* Kernel support for IBRS: NO
* IBRS enabled for Kernel space: NO
* IBRS enabled for User space: NO
* Mitigation 2
* Kernel compiled with retpoline option: NO
* Kernel compiled with a retpoline-aware compiler: UNKNOWN (couldn't find your kernel image or System.map)
> STATUS: VULNERABLE (IBRS hardware + kernel support OR kernel with retpoline are needed to mitigate the vulnerability)

CVE-2017-5754 [rogue data cache load] aka 'Meltdown' aka 'Variant 3'
* Kernel supports Page Table Isolation (PTI): NO
* PTI enabled and active: NO
* Performance impact if PTI is enabled
* CPU supports PCID: NO (no security impact but performance will be degraded with PTI)
* CPU supports INVPCID: NO (no security impact but performance will be degraded with PTI)
* Checking if we're running under Xen PV (64 bits): NO
> STATUS: VULNERABLE (PTI is needed to mitigate the vulnerability)

A false sense of security is worse than no security at all, see --disclaimer

Reply 72 of 151, by Scali

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It appears that these tools report 'vulnerable' when they detect an unpatched kernel.
I would rather see a proof-of-concept that actually reads from kernel memory. That's the only way to prove whether a CPU is vulnerable.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 73 of 151, by gdjacobs

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My impression was the same. The tools are primarily for checking the kernel and microcode to make sure workarounds have been installed. Details are sketchy on which older generations of hardware are impacted.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 75 of 151, by bjwil1991

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DosFreak wrote:

Downloaded latest bios for my Precision 5510 and my system is now patched.

My MSI gt72 2qe still has no BIOS update and I doubt my parents Dell Latitude D630 and D520 (both running Windows 10) ever will. Hopefully MS can get a microcode update pushed.

You'd hope that something like this would get people to realize how much the Internet of Things is bullshit but no one cares and it's only going to get worse.

My Gigabyte motherboard doesn't have a BIOS update either. In fact, every system I have doesn't have new BIOSes mainly because they're retired by the manufacturer (EOL).

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Reply 76 of 151, by DosFreak

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Yeah I'm hoping like the SLIC modifications the community gets together and does the same for these vulnerabilities. It looks like for UEFI it may be pretty simple not sure about non-uefi tho.

This looks interesting:
https://www.delidded.com/how-to-update-cpu-mi … de-in-ami-bios/
https://github.com/platomav/CPUMicrocodes

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Reply 77 of 151, by squiggly

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Scali wrote:

It appears that these tools report 'vulnerable' when they detect an unpatched kernel.
I would rather see a proof-of-concept that actually reads from kernel memory. That's the only way to prove whether a CPU is vulnerable.

https://github.com/crozone/SpectrePoC
https://github.com/mniip/spectre-meltdown-poc

Reply 78 of 151, by bjwil1991

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Checked my Pentium 4 IBM ThinkPad R40 and it's vulnerable 🙁

lubuntu@lubuntu:~$ sudo sh spectre-meltdown-checker.sh Spectre and Meltdown mitigation detection tool v0.31 […]
Show full quote

lubuntu@lubuntu:~$ sudo sh spectre-meltdown-checker.sh
Spectre and Meltdown mitigation detection tool v0.31

Checking for vulnerabilities against running kernel Linux 4.13.0-21-generic #24-Ubuntu SMP Mon Dec 18 17:29:35 UTC 2017 i686
CPU is Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 2.00GHz
We're missing some kernel info (see -v), accuracy might be reduced

CVE-2017-5753 [bounds check bypass] aka 'Spectre Variant 1'
* Checking count of LFENCE opcodes in kernel: UNKNOWN
> STATUS: UNKNOWN (couldn't check (couldn't find your kernel image in /boot, if you used netboot, this is normal))

CVE-2017-5715 [branch target injection] aka 'Spectre Variant 2'
* Mitigation 1
* Hardware (CPU microcode) support for mitigation
* The SPEC_CTRL MSR is available: NO
* The SPEC_CTRL CPUID feature bit is set: NO
* Kernel support for IBRS: NO
* IBRS enabled for Kernel space: NO
* IBRS enabled for User space: NO
* Mitigation 2
* Kernel compiled with retpoline option: NO
* Kernel compiled with a retpoline-aware compiler: NO
> STATUS: VULNERABLE (IBRS hardware + kernel support OR kernel with retpoline are needed to mitigate the vulnerability)

CVE-2017-5754 [rogue data cache load] aka 'Meltdown' aka 'Variant 3'
* Kernel supports Page Table Isolation (PTI): NO
* PTI enabled and active: NO
* Checking if we're running under Xen PV (64 bits): NO
> STATUS: VULNERABLE (PTI is needed to mitigate the vulnerability)

A false sense of security is worse than no security at all, see --disclaimer

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