ABIT NF7/AN7 had some issues with caps, that's for sure. I had to recap mine AN7 after 3 years of extensive use.

xarg0n wrote:

Hey guys I have been battling with a NF7-S skt A board trying to get it stable for a while now (learned the hard way the onboard sata isn't very good). Anyway upgraded from a 2600+ to a 3200+ and now the computer exits benchmarks and games, displays a 'send error report' message in windows xp before hard locking up, as in, even the num lock button on the keyboard is unresponsive. Before with the 2600+ not too many issues, managed to get through aquamark 3 etc.

On one of the previous restarts the nvidia control panel warned me performance was degraded due to the gpu not getting enough voltage. I put a multimeter across the spare molex connected to the gpu power (6600gt) and observed a 0.02V change on the 5V & 12V which is nothing really. I will get a second power supply and test tomorrow, but my main question is do you think it could be the caps? They are rubycon and look good but there def seems to be a power issue and the psu seems fine? I can't remember what the brand on it is (have to pull it completely out of the case to check ) but it is an original one from the skt A days and a really good one, passive 500W etc. I would be suss on it given its age but I decided to use it since it seemed like it has been in storage for a long time and looked brand new. If a second psu has no effect I'm not sure where else to look?

afaik +/- 0.25V ripple on 5V rail is within the limits of the atx specification, and 0.60v ripple on 12v rail is within the limits too.
I would follow the tip to check the capacitors for these stabilities issues.
Another thing is to do the math on the power requirements that your system have and check if it is within the limits of your PSU for +5V and +12V, because idk if the multimeter would be adequate to look if there is any significant ripple(they simply aren't fast enough), an osciloscope would be the right tool for the job.

Does your current power supply have a strong enough 5 volt rail to handle the faster cpu?

ABIT NF7 is using 12v rail for CPU.

Hey guys thanks heaps for the replies I appreciate it.
This morning I tested the system out of the case with two alternative PSU's and three different CPU's. The first PSU was from the skt A era but only 300W - not enough imo but I gave it a go anyway, got most of the way through aqua mark 3 with the 3200+ before rebooting a little surprising. Lots of rebooting after that, not so surprising haha. The second PSU was a modern corsair 450W I had spare. No rebooting this time with the 3200+ but again I got the hard lock. Changed CPU's to 2600+ and was finally able to get through the entire aquamark 3 benchmark. I tried an 1800+ just to see and it worked too. I had already been looking at the specs before I upgraded to the 3200+, I could not remember what clock speed it had but found the TDP interesting on the wiki:

1800+ = 51W
2600+ = 68.3W
3200+ = 76.8W

So I'm barely adding much extra overall wattage to the PSU, I really can't see it being the cause. I would have to agree with the first two posters at this point and suggest a recap of the board. Its in good condition and they were a good board so its worth the time and effort, now to start measuring all those caps! Our of interest would you recommend only replacing the large caps around the CPU area or most of the large stuff on the board? Thanks again 😀.

(oh yeah I should mention to I'm trying to get this rig going again for a retro lan in December, lucky I have heaps of time to fix it. Its housed inside a really nice case I picked up off ebay last year. It's from the early 2000's and came with a pre-installed, pre-filled watercooling loop. After sitting in storage for nearly 15 years I can tell you the loop and pump are working great and the case still looks brand new! ) case: http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/show.html … are&rev_id=1140

3200+ usually can be undervolted. 1.5v (default 1.65v) will noticeably decrease the stress to VRM/PSU.

Have you made sure the Vcore setting is correct for your 3200+? Are any of the other configurable voltages set to anything odd?
It is an interesting idea to actually try undervolting and see if the reduced power usage helps stabilize it. On the other hand, maybe voltages need to be increased.

Does the 3200+ work okay with the Prime95 torture test? That stresses the CPU and RAM but it won't stress the graphics card.
Does the 3200+ work any better if you minimize the rest of the setup? The lowest power graphics card you have, minimal RAM, just one drive to be able to run tests, etc.
Far fetched, but: What about setting more conservative RAM timings? I'm guessing the 2600+ is using the same FSB, but even so, maybe there's an interaction with the stress of the 3200+ that makes the timings more sensitive. Other than repeating the tests that have previously crashed, you could also try memtest86.
I don't remember if nForce2 allows asynchronous clocks, but if it does, you could also try setting the RAM to DDR333 or lower and see if it gets any more stable.

You could try measuring Vcore on the board with your meter. There's a group of 6 MOSFETs in the Vcore regulator area (between the CPU and the rear ports). Put the positive probe on the large tab on the back of those MOSFETs, and the black probe at ground (side of the PSU or somewhere easy). At the tab on half of the MOSFETs you should see 12.0V and the other half should show you Vcore. Make sure both of those values are where they should be. Also try watching the Vcore as stress is applied and see if it appears to be stable. If it's not, then check the 12.0V side for stability also.
If you do this then be careful with the positive probe. You can partially insulate it with tape to reduce the risk of shorting anything.

xarg0n wrote:

On one of the previous restarts the nvidia control panel warned me performance was degraded due to the gpu not getting enough voltage. I put a multimeter across the spare molex connected to the gpu power (6600gt) and observed a 0.02V change on the 5V & 12V which is nothing really.

The fluctuation looks minimal, but what are the voltages?
That nVidia warning about voltage definitely makes it seem like there's a power issue.

.legaCy wrote:

afaik +/- 0.25V ripple on 5V rail is within the limits of the atx specification, and 0.60v ripple on 12v rail is within the limits too.

That's the tolerance for the DC voltage level (+/-5%), but that's not the spec for high frequency ripple. I don't know what the ripple spec is, but I think it's much less than that. Anyway, it can't be measured easily.
You're right that the tolerance technically allows the +5V rail to be between 4.75-5.25V, and +12V to be between 11.40V-12.60V, but in reality, I don't think you can trust the stability of a system that dips much into the lower half of that range. Issues can start to appear, even though it's supposed to work.
A very conservative, server/workstation quality board might get away with something like a 5V rail running at 4.80V, but I think most enthusiast and budget brand boards aren't really designed to be reliable in that situation.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

3200+ usually can be undervolted. 1.5v (default 1.65v) will noticeably decrease the stress to VRM/PSU.

I thought this was a pretty good idea so gave it a go.

Test configuration:

-fresh install of windows xp pro with only drivers and 3d mark 01 & aquamark 3 installed
-mobo out of case on motherboard box
-all bios voltages initially set to default
-3200+ installed
-2Gb ram consisting of 1gb & 2 x 512mb sticks
-6600gt
-2.5inch sata hdd connected to IDE controller through an adapter ( I had heaps of trouble with the onboard nforce2 sata )
-PSU: Corsair CX430M (all I have spare thats new/modern)

Test case - lower vcore from 1.65V to 1.5V
result: immediate hard lock on aquamark.

Test case: vcore @ 1.5V change GPU to GF4 MX440L - low profile & passive.
result: immediate hard lock on aquamark.

Test case: vcore returned to default @ 1.65V GPU GF4 MX440L
result: aquamark run for about half the benchmark before locking - reboot - windows hung @ loading screen

Test case: vcore @ 1.65V GPU GF4 MX440L - attempt 3D mark 01
result: PASS! - first time this computer has ever passed this benchmark fully. Now try aquamark again - massive artifacting all of a sudden, lock in the scene artifacting happens

Test case: vcore 1.65V reduce ram to single 512mb stick
result: hard lock on windows loading screen - reboot - hard lock on aquamark - reboot - stuck at bios screen cannot enter bios - power cycle.

Test case: vcore to 1.525V with GF4 MX440L single 512mb stick
result: locked on windows loading screen - reboot - locked on aquamark loading screen - then dropped back to windows with the message "termination exception caught the thread tried to read or write from a virtual address which is does not have the proper access for" - seems to be an aquamark thing https://community.hwbot.org/topic/16789-aquam … ception-caught/

-reboot - no image on screen - power cycle

Test case: vcore @ 1.675V single 512mb stick
result: aquamark locked at loading screen - reboot - 3d mark PASS! - aquamark fail again

I don't know. I can't really see much of a pattern there. Less voltage made things worse. The right amount made no difference with minimal hardware and more vcore didn't seem to help either. I don't think I have a less powerful agp card than the geforce 4 mx440l - single fps in aquamark 🤣. Surely that 430W psu is enough, the only power hungry thing left is the cpu and the TDP for that isnt even 100W.

shamino wrote:

Have you made sure the Vcore setting is correct for your 3200+? Are any of the other configurable voltages set to anything odd? […]
Show full quote

Have you made sure the Vcore setting is correct for your 3200+? Are any of the other configurable voltages set to anything odd?
It is an interesting idea to actually try undervolting and see if the reduced power usage helps stabilize it. On the other hand, maybe voltages need to be increased.

Does the 3200+ work okay with the Prime95 torture test? That stresses the CPU and RAM but it won't stress the graphics card.
Does the 3200+ work any better if you minimize the rest of the setup? The lowest power graphics card you have, minimal RAM, just one drive to be able to run tests, etc.
Far fetched, but: What about setting more conservative RAM timings? I'm guessing the 2600+ is using the same FSB, but even so, maybe there's an interaction with the stress of the 3200+ that makes the timings more sensitive. Other than repeating the tests that have previously crashed, you could also try memtest86.
I don't remember if nForce2 allows asynchronous clocks, but if it does, you could also try setting the RAM to DDR333 or lower and see if it gets any more stable.

You could try measuring Vcore on the board with your meter. There's a group of 6 MOSFETs in the Vcore regulator area (between the CPU and the rear ports). Put the positive probe on the large tab on the back of those MOSFETs, and the black probe at ground (side of the PSU or somewhere easy). At the tab on half of the MOSFETs you should see 12.0V and the other half should show you Vcore. Make sure both of those values are where they should be. Also try watching the Vcore as stress is applied and see if it appears to be stable. If it's not, then check the 12.0V side for stability also.
If you do this then be careful with the positive probe. You can partially insulate it with tape to reduce the risk of shorting anything.

xarg0n wrote:

On one of the previous restarts the nvidia control panel warned me performance was degraded due to the gpu not getting enough voltage. I put a multimeter across the spare molex connected to the gpu power (6600gt) and observed a 0.02V change on the 5V & 12V which is nothing really.

The fluctuation looks minimal, but what are the voltages?
That nVidia warning about voltage definitely makes it seem like there's a power issue.

.legaCy wrote:

afaik +/- 0.25V ripple on 5V rail is within the limits of the atx specification, and 0.60v ripple on 12v rail is within the limits too.

That's the tolerance for the DC voltage level (+/-5%), but that's not the spec for high frequency ripple. I don't know what the ripple spec is, but I think it's much less than that. Anyway, it can't be measured easily.
You're right that the tolerance technically allows the +5V rail to be between 4.75-5.25V, and +12V to be between 11.40V-12.60V, but in reality, I don't think you can trust the stability of a system that dips much into the lower half of that range. Issues can start to appear, even though it's supposed to work.
A very conservative, server/workstation quality board might get away with something like a 5V rail running at 4.80V, but I think most enthusiast and budget brand boards aren't really designed to be reliable in that situation.

-all voltages have been on defaults

-I can prime95 overnight if you still think it might be insightful given the above results.

-I haven't looked at memory settings at all but they would be default, I reset all defaults when I got the board.

-I will measure the vcore regulation area tomorrow with a DMM and get back to you 😀

-the original voltages were bang on 12V and 5V fluctuating to 5.01, 5.02V and no more, very solid. 12V was similar.

-the nvidia warning has only happened once. I immediately checked the molex connector to the card and it was connected, but I noticed there was a bit of play, could have been making poor contact?

I measured up all the caps this morning - capacity/deminsions. Can grab direct replacements except for one rubycon series, they would need to be polymers since they stopped making them in 2010. Any more ideas? I can only think caps but it bothers me they all look great. The only common hardware throughout all the testing has been the mobo, hdd and one single ram stick, everything else has had a spare part dropped in so it must be the board?

voltages measured off vcore regulation MOSFETS.
vcore @ 1.65V BIOS setting
gpu: geforce 4 mx440l

12V:
12.08V average +/- 0.02V -> 12.06V-12.10V

vcore @ 1.65V:
1.671V +/-0.002V -> 1.669V-1.672V

these results were over three runs on aquamark till it locked up, measuring off a different MOSFET each time. No noticable change on vcore when it locked up

change gpu for 6600gt:
vcore dropped to 1.666V, fluctuations were similar

changed to a faster responding but less accurate meter, vcore was measured at 1.5V. I checked that meter against the other one and it was reading lower anyway. It showed more movement in vcore voltage measured at the mosfets but nothing larger than measured above.

windows died at this point and needed the repair disk.

BIOS threw this up during a random reboot - "cpu is unworkable or has been changed - please enter the softmenuIII" - enter BIOS, save settings, all good

What about dropping the FSB from 200 to 166, or 166 to 133 to underclock and see if it becomes stable? And how about a memory test?

Voltages certainly seem healthy.
I agree, I'd try memtest86 in the failing configuration and see if it's having any errors.
Prime95 and memtest86 are similar scenarios - either way it would eliminate the graphics card (and the stress of powering it) as a factor, and they focus more directly on the CPU and RAM. I think Prime95 tends to turn up errors more easily than memtest86 does, maybe because it's putting more stress on the CPU.

If either/both of those fail, then I'd try experimenting with the RAM a bit. Maybe one or more of the modules aren't happy at the current timings or FSB clock (even if the timings are from SPD). Maybe the board/chipset are at fault for such an issue.
Is the RAM voltage set at 2.6V? 2.6V+/-0.1V is the standard for DDR400, but 2.5V +/- 0.2V was the standard for DDR333 and below.
Is the chipset voltage adjustable?

I think it's looking like a board problem at this point. Maybe it's marginal RAM if you're lucky. Marginal CPU is unlikely.
I'm a proponent of replacing caps, but in this case, if your board is all Rubycons then those are good quality so I'm not real optimistic. Granted they are old now, but still not nearly as optimistic as I'd be if they were Tayehs or Jackcons or some other junk brand.