feipoa wrote:

It is a fresh installation (12 hours old only), so I don't understand how it could be corrupt. The errors only started after installing IE5. I haven't run any programs on it, just setup the Matrox display drivers, network, SP5, and post-SP5 hotfixes. IE5 is a fresh install. I've uninstalled and reinstalled IE5 twice now. I've tried two different IE5 packages.

Pressing the stop button doesn't do anything. The menu options are still nil. Going to any website doesn't do anything. No error, no attempt, nothing.

I am pretty sure the network issues are related to the router. I had these issues with Win95c and fussed Netgear for months to get them to fix it. My warranty is now expired and they won't humour my requests anymore. This doesn't explain why IE5 appears dead. I will uninstall IE5 and try IE4.

Your right IE5 is supported in Win 3x. I was confused with IE6.
I have my AMD-586 PC on the internet right now with Windows-95c and a Netgear FX310 PCI network card.
All drivers Installed Vanilla with Win-95c.
64mb ram and 500mb hard-drive. S3-trio64 PCI graphics.

Win95c is not a problem for me.

Anyone with a 386 and 486 with NT 3.51 can confirm that IE5 works with your NIC?

Yes, in my WinNT 3.5.1. Builds I use an ISA AMD chipset Ethernet cards because they are well supported in WinNT 3.5.1 and are auto detected by the WinNT 3.5.1 network setup program.

I also installed the Service pack update right after install and that seemed to fix all my network problems.
I was using IE5.5. And Cisco switches and routers. I have never used a Netgear router. I use to use Linksys routers
because they where reliable and easy to setup. Then Cisco bought Linksys.
Our internet service provider provides us with Cisco WiFi AC routers. ( 2.0ghz and 5.0ghz ).
They work fine with 10-base-T network cards and WiFi-N wireless extenders.
Fully backward compatible.

You are using NT 3.51 with a 386? And are using IE 5.5? Max IE for NT 3.51 should be IE 5.0 though. Could you clarify?

I am using a very common Etherlink III 3C509B ISA card. While NT 3.51 has drivers for it, it doesn't auto detect for some reason. I must select it manually.

feipoa wrote:

You are using NT 3.51 with a 386? And are using IE 5.5? Max IE for NT 3.51 should be IE 5.0 though. Could you clarify?

I am using a very common Etherlink III 3C509B ISA card. While NT 3.51 has drivers for it, it doesn't auto detect for some reason. I must select it manually.

Maybe it is I.E.-5.0 ? Not sure.
I never owned a 386 computer.
I have 486 and Pentium class computers.
Maybe your bios is to old to support "plug and play".
That 3com card is suppose to be "plug and play" for Microsoft operating systems that support it.
Does 3com provide drivers for this card in WinNT 3.5.1 ?
Maybe it needs DOS drivers.
It looks like the card is working fine. It's just your internet that is slow.
I don't know if a 386 is powerful enough to run web browser ?
My AMD 5x86 running at 160mhz. running Win95c and IE5 has a hard time browsing the web. really slow and vogons website barely loads.
www.google.com and www.macfixer.com load okay.

IE5 error seems to be related to some dial-up dialer the the IE5 package includes.

See the response from here, https://web.archive.org/web/20041019153522/ht … orum/22468.html

1Yes, it's the dialer..installing IE5 witout deselecting the dialer will cause endless problems...you *must* completely de-install IE5 and reinstall it with a custom install, and select *just* the browser (sorry, that means no outlook express, too)
2You'll also have to do a registry restore, as IE5 puts the dialer in the registry but de-install doesn't remove it..the message you'll get is "pctcpapi and/or runonc16.exe is referenced in win.ini ..please remove it" or something like that..however, removing it from the win doesn't get rid of the message as it's also in the registry..i can't remember where, but you might want to check the win 31 strings to find it there, if you don't have a backup registry to do a restore.
3aaargh!!!!
4
5Some IE5 installs don't give you the option of a custom install either , just automatically installing the dialer without asking,so you would need to find one that does.I think that Tucows' version does have that option...
6And after all that it's still a 16bit app (although once you've got it working OK, IE 16bit runs much better on NT's win31 subsystem than it ever did in regular win31)
7Netscape 32bit runs really well on NT351 however, right up to version 4.8..so does OffByOne..
8I'd strongly suggest you go with the 32bit browsers..although NT351's win16 subsystem is really pretty good, it still will bring down all the 16bit apps if one crashes..and since nt351 is a full multithreaded 32bit system , there's no real reason to use 16 bit unless you have to..

I'll fool around with this idea tomorrow.

Also, this website has a pre-compiled Firefox 2 for NT 3.51. http://toastytech.com/files/95browsing.html I want to check this out as well. I also read that Netscape 4.8 will work on NT 3.51.

EDIT: I checked just now and the IE5 error in question was due to installing the full package of IE5. If you uninstall and reinstall using the Standard setup (no outlook, no stack dialer), the errors don't exist and the IE5 browser buttons work. Unfortunately, I still cannot access any website as I still have the network issue with NT 3.51.

SeaMonkey, FireFox, Retrozilla TLS work well on a P233 but not sure how useable they would be on a 386 and 486. Pobably best to stick with Opera 5.12, IE or Netscape or better yet Links 2.18 in DOS although I'm just guessing. Currently I am only testing browser compatibility with OS and I haven't bothered with hardware compatibility.
List of Web Browsers For All Operating Systems

Probably the web render proxy would be your best bet for browsers that old since if not using Retrozilla TLS (and even with that web pages will be broken) then you're only going to be browsing http since alot of sites have disabled anything less than TLS 1.2. (vogons and google are the exceptions)

For somewhat compatible browsing with the modern web 95-NT4 are the minimum. Windows 2000 is the minimum for the same browsing experience as with the latest operating systems with a couple of exceptions. Retrozilla is still in development with things being backported but I wouldn't expect much from that.

Think the easiest browser to get working with NT3.51,9x,NT4 would probably be Links but I haven't bothered to look at the source yet to see what needs to be modified for v2.18 to work on those operating systems. Ideally the Windows ver would be nice but would be neat to be able to run the DOS ver in the command prompt.

Glad to hear that you got the IE 5 problem sorted. I haven't tested NT3.51 on 486 or below, I used P-MMX, P3, and Pentium-M (equipped with 40MB, 192MB, and 768MB of RAM, respectively). But I had no problems with networking, it worked for me with Realtek 8139 and one or two other cards, as well as serial null-modem. I always used a static IP and manually entered the gateway and DNS settings, so that might be worth a shot. Windows file sharing worked between NT3.51 and 2000 (did not work with Win7, or maybe it only worked in one direction)

OK, so SeaMonkey is probably too slow on a NexGen PF110, but I'll try it anyway. I'll also source Opera 5.12 and Netscape. Thanks for the tip.

I am not using DHCP with my system. Its set to static. waiting for DHCP can cause the system to slow, and then you get that annoying error message. I have one other ISA network card by Intel, that I think I saw the NT 3.51 native drivers for. I'll have to pillage it from another system to test out.

Responding to another: I have already tried drivers supplied by 3Com and they place an Icon in Control Panel. When I open control panel, the computer hangs up, so I am not using the 3com-supplied drivers. The drivers were for "NT", so not sure if 3.51 compatible.

I also have an LPT to NIC adapter I might try out.

I use a TP-Link WiFi extender. I plug in the Ethernet cable from the PC to the bottom of the extender. The TP-Link syncs with your WiFi router. Just Sync it to the Router using the Quick Sync button and then take it to another room where your PC's are. This is an easy way to give any PC WiFi capabilities. I use it with my old PC's and Mac's that don't have WiFi. Works great. You can find them on ebay for about $20. This one is WiFi-N but they have WiFi-AC too which I have not tried.

Intel486dx33 wrote:

I use a TP-Link WiFi extender. I plug in the Ethernet cable from the PC to the bottom of the extender. The TP-Link syncs with your WiFi router. Just Sync it to the Router using the Quick Sync button and then take it to another room where your PC's are. This is an easy way to give any PC WiFi capabilities. I use it with my old PC's and Mac's that don't have WiFi. Works great. You can find them on ebay for about $20. This one is WiFi-N but they have WiFi-AC too which I have not tried.

I'm not sure how this relates to my situation. I have ethernet ports running thru the walls of the house to every room except the kitchen. I find WiFi frustrating. I do regret not putting the LAN in the kitchen as I have my laptop sitting on the kitchen peninsula using wifi now.

I tried the Intel EtherExpress 10/100 ISA Pro card. I read the readme and the /NT files are for NT 3.51 and NT4. What is odd is that the configuration utility doesn't let me tell NT 3.51 what IRQ the card is using. I can only select the I/O address. When using the DOS config utility, I have address 340 and IRQ 10 reserved. NT 3.51 says the NIC is not functioning. It says the same thing with the IBM 10/100 ISA card. But for the 3Com Etherlink III card using the built-in NT 3.51 drivers, it lets me select the IRQ and I do not receive Event Viewer errors saying that the device is not functioning. Is there an ini file to tell NT 3.51 what IRQ the NIC is using?

For someone who has LAN working on NT 3.51, could you take a screenshot of what items are installed for your network and what settings you are using for these items? I've decided to delete all the network components and will attempt to reinstall them.

I've given up on getting any of my ISA network cards working w/NT351 for the time being.

What I was wanting to test out next was NT 3.51 maximum partition requirement w/NTFS. My current IDE configuration is:

4 GB - NTFS, NT 3.51
3.8 GB unallocated
120 GB FAT32, Win95c

[dual boot using NT 3.51's boot manager; PCI Promise Ultra100 TX controller card]

Now that NT 3.51 has been installed, I was wanting to use Partition Magic 8.0 to resize the 4 GB NTFS partition to 7.8 GB. For NT 4, this is supposedly the maximum hard drive size that can be used for the system partition. In NT4, I usually resize this partition to 7.8 GB after installation using Partition Magic.

I booted into DOS Partition Magic 8.0 using the boot floppies, however, I received an unfamiliar error (attached). Anyone see this before? And did you ask PQMagic to fix the error? I'm reluctant to hit fix. I'm also reluctant to resize the partition know this error is present. Any ideas?

You can also use the fastfat32 here http://toastytech.com/guis/miscb2.html

Replace the NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR files with Windows 2000 ones, convert the disk to fat32, should work.

oeuvre wrote:

You can also use the fastfat32 here http://toastytech.com/guis/miscb2.html

Replace the NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR files with Windows 2000 ones, convert the disk to fat32, should work.

Remeber that when U want to use fastfat (with fs_rec.sys- a bootable fat32 for NT) Windows&chkdsk stops recognizing fat16 even on floppies. Test it and U should see it on Your own eyes.

For Nt3.51 AMD PCNet and maybe Ne2000 series nics are the only fully compatible nics with stock drivers.
Ah, i think i remeber that Win NT3.51 doesn't support PCI. Support is done by specific hardware driver for every device. So Nt4 driver isn't fully compatible with nt3.51
Have U install sp5?

I haven't noticed any problems using nt3.51 with windows workgroup network. TCP/IP is optional component when installing network on nt351. Enable guest account-or set same name/pass with account and share, set same workgroup; disable smb transmission signing and enable LM1 on win higher than NT4 - if You're unable access Your nt 3.51 machine from network. Enable wins server on router if U want access network by computer name-not ip adress within workgroup.

oeuvre wrote:

You can also use the fastfat32 here http://toastytech.com/guis/miscb2.html

Replace the NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR files with Windows 2000 ones, convert the disk to fat32, should work.

I'm not wanting to use FAT32 for NT 3.51. I'm wanting to use and am using the native NTFS for NT 3.51.

Callahan wrote:

oeuvre wrote:

For Nt3.51 AMD PCNet and maybe Ne2000 series nics are the only fully compatible nics with stock drivers. Ah, i think i remeber […]
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For Nt3.51 AMD PCNet and maybe Ne2000 series nics are the only fully compatible nics with stock drivers.
Ah, i think i remeber that Win NT3.51 doesn't support PCI. Support is done by specific hardware driver for every device. So Nt4 driver isn't fully compatible with nt3.51
Have U install sp5?

I haven't noticed any problems using nt3.51 with windows workgroup network. TCP/IP is optional component when installing network on nt351. Enable guest account-or set same name/pass with account and share, set same workgroup; disable smb transmission signing and enable LM1 on win higher than NT4 - if You're unable access Your nt 3.51 machine from network. Enable wins server on router if U want access network by computer name-not ip adress within workgroup.

Hmmm... well, you are also using a Pentium.
Yes, SP5 and post SP5 updates are installed.
What router are you using?

I think the 3Com Etherlink III driver works (I don't get any event viewer errors), but the router is limiting access some how. Unfortunately, I don't want to use the 3Com Etherlink III because it is 10 mbit only. I want to use the IBM or Intel 10/100 ISA adapter, which work in Win95c. While I do not expect 100 mbit speeds, the 100 mbit ISA adapter is about 2 - 2.5x faster than an ISA 10 mbit adapter.

I've moved onto the HDD for now and am wondering about that partition magic error. 3 options exist, that I can see. 1) leave things as they are; 2) let PQ magic "fix" then resize the NTFS to 7.8 GB; 3) do not let PQ magic fix and then resize NTFS to 7.8 GB.

Yeah, mine installation works with dual pentium & MPS Kernel.
My router is netgear wnr3500V2 with Tomato By Shibby firmware, rock solid, smb enabled, wins server and master browser enabled, so browsing network by computer names works without a slowndows or other problems.

If PQ sees a problem then might indicate that it wrong identificate ntfs version...that version may be unsupported, or badblock.

I've seen my friend's an 10MBit ISA network card that sends data out at 25MBits while receive at 10MBits at full duplex mode. Quite strange but fast as hell.

Ahh, one day I was hoping to try some open source firmware on my Netgear R7000, but haven't gotten around do it yet. I'm a bit nervous.

Yes, that was my fear, that PQ 8 doesn't support NTFS from NT 3.51 and will mess everything up. I think I have PQ 6 as well, but don't think it has DOS boot diskettes. I've tried to use PQ 6 to resize a partition from Windows NT4 (resizes upon reboot) and it messed things up.

I booted into DOS Partition Magic 8.0 using the boot floppies, however, I received an unfamiliar error (attached). Anyone see this before? And did you ask PQMagic to fix the error? I'm reluctant to hit fix. I'm also reluctant to resize the partition know this error is present. Any ideas?

Don't know anything about Partition Magic but look at the sector number. It's around 8GB, so it must be referring to your 120GB partition that begins after the first 8GB. The CHS value doesn't match, but it's not possible to access that partition using CHS anyway so it doesn't even matter.

Oh, good catch! I decided to ignore the PQ Magic error, then resized the NTFS partition to 7.61 GB. All is well.

Thanks for the TCP/IP screenshots. Looks like you have istalled the extra components, like Simple TCP/IP Services, SNMP Service, and FTP Server. But not NetBEUI. Not sure if this has any impact on my issue.

I also have a Xircom Pocket Ethernet III, which is a parallel to ethernet adapter. I used the NT default drivers, but got some parallel port sharing address errors. I suppose I should have tried to disable ParPort and Parallel in Devices. I thought the driver would do that, but I guess not. So I decided to install the the drivers from the Xircom diskette, which yielded the following error:

1STOP
2Unable to create Services subkey in Registry
3and
4Unable to access Services subkey in Registry

Not sure how to circumvent this error, so I then tried to install the NT 3.51 supplied Xircom drivers, but it looks like the driver name was exactly the same and now when I try to install "Pocket Ethernet III" from the NT3.51 network adapter selection, Windows insists on using my Xircom diskette. Is there any way to tell Windows that I only want the driver from the NT 3.51 CD? The installer is refusing.

This OS is not for sissies.