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Reply 260 of 352, by jmarsh

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brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:

As an example, then Nasa used Amiga for some calculations that were critical for the launch of the space shuttle.

AFAIK they are still using RAD hardened PowerPC CPUs (the successor to the 68000s) in some modules due to their reliability during prolonged exposure. Or it may just be because they're made by IBM and that's who they have a contract with...

Reply 261 of 352, by brostenen

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jmarsh wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:15:
brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:

As an example, then Nasa used Amiga for some calculations that were critical for the launch of the space shuttle.

AFAIK they are still using RAD hardened PowerPC CPUs (the successor to the 68000s) in some modules due to their reliability during prolonged exposure. Or it may just be because they're made by IBM and that's who they have a contract with...

As far as I know. It is just because it is more reliable and better suited for the job.

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Reply 262 of 352, by amadeus777999

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brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:
I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, […]
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LunarG wrote on 2020-09-03, 17:37:

Well, that attitude of being different, and feeling superior and so on goes on today, even in the PC community. Just look at forums dealing in modern systems, and see how extreme some of the brand fans can be. "Team Green", "Team Red" and "Team Blue".

I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, screaming bad words at each other, while sitting alone in a dark room in front of their xbox or what not. 😁

But yeah... Hardcore windows gamers, who knows only how to play games and nothing else, are kind of elitists. Or at least try to be like that. All they do is gaming, and they would not know a single bit about stuff like having kids. I once came across a couple of these people, back in 2006. You "had no business" explaining to them that Windows are not the only OS used world wide. Heh' they were angry at anyone, trying to explain that Unix and Linux were in use in a lot of different places, and took it extremely serious, if they were told that Windows are not the universal OS that can meet every single computing needs in the world.

As an example, then Nasa used Amiga for some calculations that were critical for the launch of the space shuttle. Wall street uses Linux and you can still find places were C64 are in use. It all depends on what tool is best for the job ahead.

Linux / Unix people seem way more elitist than the win-dozers as they tend to see themselves as pretty capable and "open minded". Apple'rs seem to see themselves as the creative front and also eye the "Gaters" with dismay.

Reply 263 of 352, by wiretap

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brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 20:51:
Horun wrote on 2021-03-25, 01:08:

I was around when Commodore's and the later Amiga's first came out. Amiga's were great at first but when PC's got to the 286 era the Amiga's were becoming obsolete in as far as usability and upgradability.
Think mostly it is the old farts like me (or rich younger who had a parent) that had one that has made them very collectable. But have no desire to own one again, even the C64 had back in 1983 has fond memories but that is all....
agree amadeus777999 ! I never looked back.

You need to get well into the 486 era, before Amiga became obsolete. The lack of GFX technology that was needed for games like Doom, sealed the Amiga's fate. I would argue, that the Amiga lost in 1993. It was not obsolete 3 years before it was launched.

Even then, they were still used in a lot of video production applications all the way to the late 90's. Nickelodeon, PBS, SciFi channel, Disney, weather TV stations with chromakey, tons of independent news networks, music videos and music artists, Babylon 5, Jurassic Park, Titanic, etc all used Amiga computers quite heavily. A lot of Amiga Lightwave animations and renders were then converted over to newer Lightwave software running on Compaq/HP Alphas, Macs, and PCs once NewTek moved on from Commodore going under. Visting several TV studios in the Detroit area from 1999-2003, a handful still had video toasters in use, primarily for chromakey work until they upgraded to Trinity systems.

Maybe I grew up at the wrong time or in the wrong country, but my view of Amiga computers in the US from the 90's was always professional, not for gaming. Everyone I knew primarily had IBM-compatible computers and schools had Macs. It wasn't until I started into some TV production when I first used an Amiga.

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Reply 264 of 352, by brostenen

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amadeus777999 wrote on 2021-03-30, 11:31:
brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:
I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, […]
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LunarG wrote on 2020-09-03, 17:37:

Well, that attitude of being different, and feeling superior and so on goes on today, even in the PC community. Just look at forums dealing in modern systems, and see how extreme some of the brand fans can be. "Team Green", "Team Red" and "Team Blue".

I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, screaming bad words at each other, while sitting alone in a dark room in front of their xbox or what not. 😁

But yeah... Hardcore windows gamers, who knows only how to play games and nothing else, are kind of elitists. Or at least try to be like that. All they do is gaming, and they would not know a single bit about stuff like having kids. I once came across a couple of these people, back in 2006. You "had no business" explaining to them that Windows are not the only OS used world wide. Heh' they were angry at anyone, trying to explain that Unix and Linux were in use in a lot of different places, and took it extremely serious, if they were told that Windows are not the universal OS that can meet every single computing needs in the world.

As an example, then Nasa used Amiga for some calculations that were critical for the launch of the space shuttle. Wall street uses Linux and you can still find places were C64 are in use. It all depends on what tool is best for the job ahead.

Linux / Unix people seem way more elitist than the win-dozers as they tend to see themselves as pretty capable and "open minded". Apple'rs seem to see themselves as the creative front and also eye the "Gaters" with dismay.

I am a Linux user and I will happily set up an install and give simple advice for starters. Then guide them to places on the net, were they can find more in dept info on what issue that might arise. Everyone else I know, that are a Linux user, are mostly helpfull if people really want to switch. That can be anything from a RetroPIE setup, to a Linux based NAS. I do agree with you, that there are rotten apples in the basket.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 265 of 352, by brostenen

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wiretap wrote on 2021-03-30, 15:53:
brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 20:51:
Horun wrote on 2021-03-25, 01:08:

I was around when Commodore's and the later Amiga's first came out. Amiga's were great at first but when PC's got to the 286 era the Amiga's were becoming obsolete in as far as usability and upgradability.
Think mostly it is the old farts like me (or rich younger who had a parent) that had one that has made them very collectable. But have no desire to own one again, even the C64 had back in 1983 has fond memories but that is all....
agree amadeus777999 ! I never looked back.

You need to get well into the 486 era, before Amiga became obsolete. The lack of GFX technology that was needed for games like Doom, sealed the Amiga's fate. I would argue, that the Amiga lost in 1993. It was not obsolete 3 years before it was launched.

Even then, they were still used in a lot of video production applications all the way to the late 90's. Nickelodeon, PBS, SciFi channel, Disney, weather TV stations with chromakey, tons of independent news networks, music videos and music artists, Babylon 5, Jurassic Park, Titanic, etc all used Amiga computers quite heavily. A lot of Amiga Lightwave animations and renders were then converted over to newer Lightwave software running on Compaq/HP Alphas, Macs, and PCs once NewTek moved on from Commodore going under. Visting several TV studios in the Detroit area from 1999-2003, a handful still had video toasters in use, primarily for chromakey work until they upgraded to Trinity systems.

Maybe I grew up at the wrong time or in the wrong country, but my view of Amiga computers in the US from the 90's was always professional, not for gaming. Everyone I knew primarily had IBM-compatible computers and schools had Macs. It wasn't until I started into some TV production when I first used an Amiga.

Back in the 90's and well into the 00's, we used to have these small local companies, that delivered their own package of cable tv. Every town or medium sized city, had one such company. And everyone had this info-channel with channels listed at the various frequency. Plus they delivered local news or announcements. Every single info-channels were driven by Amiga's. Mostly Amiga1200, as they were the cheapest ones to use for the job. And I bet they got discount from Commodore. Hehe.

Anyway.
That is the only real professional and wide spread use of Amiga's that I know of here in Denmark. Sure it was used on the national tv station that we had. Yes. Untill October of 1988, we only had one TV station as such. An extreme small number of stations had license to run, however they only had license to broadcast locally. I think it may have been around 10 or so, and only in the city/town were they were located. Basically. To 1988, it was only one station that used Amiga and after 1988 it was only two that I personally know of.

The oldest tv station (Called DR1 today) had this kids show, that they used Amiga's to create their intro on. You can see a collection of the oldest intro's on YouTube HERE.

And the second tv station, called TV2, had this game called "Skaermtrolden Hugo", were you would call in and use the telephone to play the game with. It was exported to other parts of the globe, and they used high end Amiga's for the job. It is this game HERE. The lady in the clip, that are the host on the segment, became known as Hugo's mother. She was the first one to present the game on tv. Her name is Nina Klinker Stephensen. (All teenage boys and Amiga fans had a deep crush on her) 😁

EDIT:
As far as I remember. The Danish YouTuber called Retrocengo, might be the owner of the exact machines, that were used for Hugo on the tv station.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 266 of 352, by amadeus777999

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brostenen wrote on 2021-03-30, 21:35:
amadeus777999 wrote on 2021-03-30, 11:31:
brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:

I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, screaming bad words at each other, while sitting alone in a dark room in front of their xbox or what not. 😁

But yeah... Hardcore windows gamers, who knows only how to play games and nothing else, are kind of elitists. Or at least try to be like that. All they do is gaming, and they would not know a single bit about stuff like having kids. I once came across a couple of these people, back in 2006. You "had no business" explaining to them that Windows are not the only OS used world wide. Heh' they were angry at anyone, trying to explain that Unix and Linux were in use in a lot of different places, and took it extremely serious, if they were told that Windows are not the universal OS that can meet every single computing needs in the world.

As an example, then Nasa used Amiga for some calculations that were critical for the launch of the space shuttle. Wall street uses Linux and you can still find places were C64 are in use. It all depends on what tool is best for the job ahead.

Linux / Unix people seem way more elitist than the win-dozers as they tend to see themselves as pretty capable and "open minded". Apple'rs seem to see themselves as the creative front and also eye the "Gaters" with dismay.

I am a Linux user and I will happily set up an install and give simple advice for starters. Then guide them to places on the net, were they can find more in dept info on what issue that might arise. Everyone else I know, that are a Linux user, are mostly helpfull if people really want to switch. That can be anything from a RetroPIE setup, to a Linux based NAS. I do agree with you, that there are rotten apples in the basket.

My experiences mainly stem from the educational sector - this strange behavior pertains to many fields which appear esoteric to the outsiders.

Reply 267 of 352, by brostenen

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amadeus777999 wrote on 2021-04-08, 13:06:
brostenen wrote on 2021-03-30, 21:35:
amadeus777999 wrote on 2021-03-30, 11:31:

Linux / Unix people seem way more elitist than the win-dozers as they tend to see themselves as pretty capable and "open minded". Apple'rs seem to see themselves as the creative front and also eye the "Gaters" with dismay.

I am a Linux user and I will happily set up an install and give simple advice for starters. Then guide them to places on the net, were they can find more in dept info on what issue that might arise. Everyone else I know, that are a Linux user, are mostly helpfull if people really want to switch. That can be anything from a RetroPIE setup, to a Linux based NAS. I do agree with you, that there are rotten apples in the basket.

My experiences mainly stem from the educational sector - this strange behavior pertains to many fields which appear esoteric to the outsiders.

Ahhhhhh yes.... I see. That is the exact same experience I had with Unix Guru's in the mid-90's on the school that I went to, in order to study computers. We are talking about BOFH are we not? I have mostly had experience with Linux users in the 00's and to now, and most are ok. They on the other hand are all "amateurs" on forums here and there.

But yeah... Guru's in the educational sector, are mostly BOFH.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
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Reply 268 of 352, by megatron-uk

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brostenen wrote on 2021-04-08, 13:26:

Ahhhhhh yes.... I see. That is the exact same experience I had with Unix Guru's in the mid-90's on the school that I went to, in order to study computers. We are talking about BOFH are we not? I have mostly had experience with Linux users in the 00's and to now, and most are ok. They on the other hand are all "amateurs" on forums here and there.

But yeah... Guru's in the educational sector, are mostly BOFH.

We (BOFH), mostly try to stop amateurs from bringing down the infrastructure or bringing the institution into disrepute by doing things that are fine on your own home LAN, but are crazy on a shared infrastructure that people are using to teach thousands of students or run multi-million pound research equipment.

We don't do it for the hell of it. Well, most of us don't, anyway.

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Reply 269 of 352, by brostenen

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megatron-uk wrote on 2021-04-08, 15:33:
brostenen wrote on 2021-04-08, 13:26:

Ahhhhhh yes.... I see. That is the exact same experience I had with Unix Guru's in the mid-90's on the school that I went to, in order to study computers. We are talking about BOFH are we not? I have mostly had experience with Linux users in the 00's and to now, and most are ok. They on the other hand are all "amateurs" on forums here and there.

But yeah... Guru's in the educational sector, are mostly BOFH.

We (BOFH), mostly try to stop amateurs from bringing down the infrastructure or bringing the institution into disrepute by doing things that are fine on your own home LAN, but are crazy on a shared infrastructure that people are using to teach thousands of students or run multi-million pound research equipment.

We don't do it for the hell of it. Well, most of us don't, anyway.

I do understand that, but some of those, are teaching new comers in a really bad way. Back in 1995, when I attended Unix starter class. We were made fun of by the admin, because we did not understand Unix the first day we were put in front of a console with an extremely limited login. On the other hand, he was the same dude, who thought that we downloaded porn, because we were downloading MC.Affee. antivirus. He came running, yelling, accusing and used our laser printer as an ashtray.

What a dick.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
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Reply 270 of 352, by LunarG

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brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:
LunarG wrote on 2020-09-03, 17:37:

Well, that attitude of being different, and feeling superior and so on goes on today, even in the PC community. Just look at forums dealing in modern systems, and see how extreme some of the brand fans can be. "Team Green", "Team Red" and "Team Blue".

I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, screaming bad words at each other, while sitting alone in a dark room in front of their xbox or what not. 😁

Team Blue = Intel fans.
Team Green = Nvidia fans.
Team Red = AMD fans.

And they hate each others guts to an extent that makes it look like a parody.

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Reply 271 of 352, by brostenen

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LunarG wrote on 2021-04-09, 18:45:
Team Blue = Intel fans. Team Green = Nvidia fans. Team Red = AMD fans. […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-03-29, 21:02:
LunarG wrote on 2020-09-03, 17:37:

Well, that attitude of being different, and feeling superior and so on goes on today, even in the PC community. Just look at forums dealing in modern systems, and see how extreme some of the brand fans can be. "Team Green", "Team Red" and "Team Blue".

I have absolutely no idea what those teams are. To me they sound a bit like fortnite teams made up of 12 year old angry gamers, screaming bad words at each other, while sitting alone in a dark room in front of their xbox or what not. 😁

Team Blue = Intel fans.
Team Green = Nvidia fans.
Team Red = AMD fans.

And they hate each others guts to an extent that makes it look like a parody.

They are just fanboys.... 😁

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 273 of 352, by megatron-uk

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brostenen wrote on 2021-04-08, 16:03:

I do understand that, but some of those, are teaching new comers in a really bad way. Back in 1995, when I attended Unix starter class. We were made fun of by the admin, because we did not understand Unix the first day we were put in front of a console with an extremely limited login. On the other hand, he was the same dude, who thought that we downloaded porn, because we were downloading MC.Affee. antivirus. He came running, yelling, accusing and used our laser printer as an ashtray.

What a dick.

Yeah, there's no excuse for that attitude. Also, you are there to learn; anyone who expects you to know why you should and shouldn't do certain things before you have learned those topics shouldn't be in an educational establishment. Even those of us who aren't lecturers and professors should be patient enough to explain to a student 'why'.

There's also no excuse to be unprofessional in those circumstances - although I have witnessed it first hand: coming from support staff, academics and students themselves.

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Reply 274 of 352, by brostenen

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megatron-uk wrote on 2021-04-10, 15:03:
brostenen wrote on 2021-04-08, 16:03:

I do understand that, but some of those, are teaching new comers in a really bad way. Back in 1995, when I attended Unix starter class. We were made fun of by the admin, because we did not understand Unix the first day we were put in front of a console with an extremely limited login. On the other hand, he was the same dude, who thought that we downloaded porn, because we were downloading MC.Affee. antivirus. He came running, yelling, accusing and used our laser printer as an ashtray.

What a dick.

Yeah, there's no excuse for that attitude. Also, you are there to learn; anyone who expects you to know why you should and shouldn't do certain things before you have learned those topics shouldn't be in an educational establishment. Even those of us who aren't lecturers and professors should be patient enough to explain to a student 'why'.

There's also no excuse to be unprofessional in those circumstances - although I have witnessed it first hand: coming from support staff, academics and students themselves.

And now comes the punchline.....

There WAS someone downloading porn. However they were on a different subnet in a different room. He said that he knew it was we who did it, because he had IP log's. And secondly, he was a consultant for EU's cyber security board. Or at least, that was the absolute first thing he proclaimed, the very first day we had Unix course. What a looser.....

Anyway...
Someone managed to execute a code on the Unix server, writing 64k empty file in the root directory, leaving the file open. Then looping back, keep the process open and repeat the same code in a new process. So much for the Admin's Unix security skill's. 🤣 😁

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Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 275 of 352, by kolderman

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The Amiga had in the 80s what PCs didn't get until 1995. In fact it outstripped all other computers at the time, only being challenged by the Atari ST and Apple 2 GS (which did not really catch on).

A better question is why did the 16-bit DOS abomination live on until the late 90s (under the Win98 hood)? Business beat technology.

Reply 276 of 352, by Grzyb

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kolderman wrote on 2021-04-10, 20:50:

The Amiga had in the 80s what PCs didn't get until 1995.

Even if that's true, it should also be noted that:
- the PC had in 1981 what the Amiga didn't get until 1987 (and the most popular models never got it): MODULARITY
- the PC had in 1983 what the Amiga didn't get until around 1988 (and the most popular models only got it in 1992, if ever): HDD

Again, Amiga did have certain strong points, but for majority of applications the PC was better. Get over it.
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Reply 277 of 352, by Jo22

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^I think the same, sorta.
What the Amiga platform really hurt, was the long absence of hard disks.
No serious user was willing to play that disk jokey game for long.
Heck, even the ancient Sinclair machines had an alternative to floppies, the Microdrive. 😀

The only serious Amigas were the A1000 and the A1500/2000.
The A2000, however, was designed in Braunschweig (?)\Germany and didn't get much love.
And the A1000 was outdated, rare by the late 80s.
(By the 90s, the Amiga platforms was mainly used by fans, IMHO.
Not much professional/business software was released for it anymore. Except for the audio/video niche. )

While the A2000 series was being recognized as a work horse, it also was being criticized for being an ugly "PC" by its community.
Well, until the 2000s when eBay flourished.
Ironically, though, the A2000 was akin to a properly done A500.
It could be upgraded with expansion cards and HDDs, even.

By the end of its life, the A500 got an external HDD, but it was of little capacity (20MB) and very expensive.

Also, not all games and applications supported HDDs.
Someone had to use JST (WB 1.3) or WDHLoad back then.

..

I can't help, but the Amiga community always makes me think of that famous ancient quote :

"For whoever uplifts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be uplifted"
Source: https://biblehub.com/luke/14-11.htm

Considering how often the Amiga community in the past used to make fun not just of other computer platforms,
but also their users, mildly said, I can't help but feel that the downfall of their platform provided a bit of justice here.

Edit: No offense, though. I think the Amiga platform itself, minus a certain part of the user base, was quite facinating.
Especially the software side, which games rarely used, though.
I'm a bit sad, that the original Amiga OS (Worckbench 1.x, Kick Start 1.x) was discontinued
- it was technically very interesting, not to say outstanding for its time.

I mean, the use of that Tripos Operating System as the base (for AmigaDOS, *link*),
the BCPL programming language and the timeless blue/white/orange color scheme.
By comparison, the latere 90s releases were rather boring. C and Assembly. Meh. 😢

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Reply 278 of 352, by appiah4

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The idea of actually upgrading an Amiga was completely alien to me despite having used one for 5 years between 1989-1993. Upgradability was the one thing that really hurt the Amiga. It resulted in a vast majority of systems being baseline, which became a target for software. By the early 90s, Amiga software was pretty outdated as a result.

As a contrarian view to the above, the only upgrade that I knew of and thought was viable for an Amiga was an HDD. HDD Upgrades were pretty common in Europe, even. The issue was that no (relevant) model came with one preinstalled.

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Reply 279 of 352, by megatron-uk

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The Amiga was great when it first came out... but it just didn't evolve; each subsequent model was mostly a warmed-over rehash of what came before.

I say that as a long-time Amiga user (mainly 500+, and later 1200).

In thirteen years (83-98) it went from 256K to 2MB, and from 7MHz to 40MHz and still never gained a decent monitor output as standard, nor fundamentally improve it's (admittedly once impressive) audio and video capabilities. AGA in 1992 was really in no way superior to SVGA chips which had been available for years previous on the PC.

Let's face it though - this was Commodore, who, if they could have gotten away with it, would have still been selling the C64, unaltered, today.

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