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Reply 20 of 759, by red-ray

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bakemono wrote:
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  1. I had a crash even with uefi-info unchecked (and this time it caused the system to freeze completely, I had to reboot and do CHKDSK and the whole nine yards)
  2. I also unchecked bios-make and bios-option as one of those appeared to be the culprit. That worked.
  3. This system uses Win2000 extended kernel, unofficial video drivers, and a CPU that is not recognized by the BIOS. Plenty of unusual stuff to see in here, no doubt.
  1. Thank you for running the test again and apologies for the system freeze, I hope that doing the recovery was not too painful.
  2. If you check the last line in the .TXT file this should be the section with the issue. [bios-make] (Menu->Hardware->BIOS Tables->BIOS Make) just reads the registry so should be OK so I suspect it was [bios-option] (Menu->Hardware->BIOS Tables->BIOS Option ROM). What is strange that I guess this was previously OK as it's before [uefi-info], was it? Do you still have the first partial save file and is it in there?
  3. Is there a Win 2000 extended kernel32.dll that contains the GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableA() and/or GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableW() functions (if you don't know post it)? SIV uses these to detect if UEFI is active and I am wondering if this could be the root cause of the issue with [uefi-info] (Menu->Hardware->BIOS Tables->UEFI Information). Can you run MSVC 6 (locally or as a remote client) of the system?
  4. I just checked and [bios-option] also calls GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableW() so this may be the root cause of both issues. Looking @ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win3 … onmentvariablea it should not be present on Windows 2000 😲.
  5. I just checked and on my W2K system I have kernel32.dll V5.00.2195.7135 whereas you have V5.00.2195.7272, what would I need to do to run your kernel on my system please?
  6. I was rather surprised that your memory is Single Channel Ganged and suspect if you move the DIMM from Memory Bank4/5 A2 to Memory Bank2/3 A1 or similar it will run Dual Channel.
  7. Having though about [uefi-info] + [bios-option] I have changed SIV to only call GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariable() starting from Windows XP and released SIV32L 5.41 Beta-18. There should no longer be the [uefi-info] on Save Selected and I suspect [bios-option] will now be OK.
Last edited by red-ray on 2019-08-25, 14:38. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 21 of 759, by bakemono

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You are correct, BIOS-make doesn't cause the crash, so it must have been BIOS-option.

GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableA and GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableW are indeed present! I don't what these do or if they work as expected. Sometimes the extended kernel functions are just "dummies" that do nothing and return failure, just to avoid errors coming up about missing imports. I don't know anything about MSVC, sorry.

I'm using extended kernel v3.0 - Windows2000-KB935839-v30-x86-ENU.EXE from http://blog.livedoor.jp/blackwingcat/archives/1299806.html

I believe there are some prerequisites to installing it, in case you are not aware

begin with Win2K SP4 
install unofficial service pack 5.1 (USP51.ZIP) (this contains some IE updates that are needed later, even if you have no intention of using IE)
install Windows2000-UpdateRollup2-x86-ENU.exe (or your language version if you can find it)
install IE6.0SP1-KB2722913-WINDOWS2000-X86-ENU.EXE
now Extended Kernel can be installed

I was rather surprised that your memory is Single Channel Ganged and suspect if you move the DIMM from Memory Bank4/5 A2 to Memory Bank2/3 A1 or similar it will run Dual Channel.

Are single channel and ganged not two different things? While SIV reported single channel ganged, CPU-Z reported dual channel ganged. If I change the BIOS setting from ganged to unganged, then they both report dual channel unganged. I know that the DIMMs are installed in adjacent slots on the motherboard.

Having though about [uefi-info] + [bios-option] I have changed SIV to only call GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariable() starting from Windows XP and released SIV32L 5.41 Beta-18.

I could not manage to find the download for beta-18, only beta-15.

Reply 22 of 759, by red-ray

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bakemono wrote:
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  1. GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableA and GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariableW are indeed present! I don't what these do or if they work as expected. Sometimes the extended kernel functions are just "dummies" that do nothing and return failure, just to avoid errors coming up about missing imports.
  2. Are single channel and ganged not two different things? While SIV reported single channel ganged. If I change the BIOS setting from ganged to unganged, then they both report dual channel unganged. I know that the DIMMs are installed in adjacent slots on the motherboard.
  3. CPU-Z reported dual channel ganged.
  4. I could not manage to find the download for beta-18, only beta-15.
  1. Thank you for the information which confirms what I suspected.
  2. This explains why [uefi-info] was there at all. I suspect when SIV called GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariable() the return status was other than ERROR_INVALID_FUNCTION so SIV deduced the system was UEFI. Later when it called them I suspect kernel32 was confused as your BIOS does not support UEFI and the **** hit the fan. Either way things should be OK with Beta-18.
  3. Looking at Menu->Hardware->Chipset->Chipset MCH then one of the channels is Unused which is why SIV reported single channel, what does SIV report after you changed the BIOS setting?
  4. What does HWiNFO32 report? I am also wondering, does it report the system as UEFI? It may also call GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariable() and trigger issues.
  5. The latest SIV32L Beta is attached to the first post of this thread, see SIV support for 386/486/586 class + Alpha CPUs and 3dfx + S3 + SiS + Matrox + XGI + old ATI + NVidia GPUs - Testing Help and you can also do Menu->File->Download->SIV Beta to get the full Beta release.
  6. I just tried downloading a Windows 2000 extended kernel and it was reported as a Trojan 🙄 . Given this I am not inclined to install it.

file.php?id=67419

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Last edited by red-ray on 2019-08-25, 10:00. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 23 of 759, by red-ray

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xjas wrote:

Everything seemed to read fine on this one, including identifying & detecting the clocks on my V3 correctly, although it doesn't seem to get much more else from the card.

Once I release it 5.41 Beta-19 SIV should report the Voodoo memory timings. Are there any things that other utilities report that I could add please?

file.php?id=67422

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Reply 24 of 759, by bakemono

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red-ray wrote:

Either way things should be OK with Beta-18.

Yes, it finishes the whole report without problems.

what does SIV report after you changed the BIOS setting?

It shows two entries (see pic)

HWiNFO paradoxically shows UEFI boot is true but BIOS is not UEFI capable.

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Reply 25 of 759, by red-ray

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bakemono wrote:

Yes, it finishes the whole report without problems.
It shows two entries (see pic)
HWiNFO paradoxically shows UEFI boot is true but BIOS is not UEFI capable.

Thank you, all is now as I expected/hoped and I am pleased to have got to the bottom of this. Please will you post a new save file so I can see what get's reported now the work arounds work? You should report what I feel is a bug in the W2K Extended Kernel to the guys who provide it and if they contact me I can fill them in on the technical details. I tried to find a contact e-mail address, but there does not seem to be one, do you have one?

How was the BIOS set when you ran HWiNFO? It would be ideal to set Ganged then posted one screen shot showing both what the HWiNFO Summary reports as the Mode + what SIV reports on [Chipset MCH] so I can be sure the BIOS setup was the same for both.

This is what I suspected would happen and prior to Beta-18 what SIV did. I have mentioned this to Martin, don't know if he has adjusted HWiNFO, but v6.11-3895 has just been released which might have been.

I also made the AIDA64 guys aware and the next AIDA64 will use the same work around as SIV uses. I suspect there are several other programs that will use GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariable() and incorrectly report UEFI Boot on your system and if you spot any advise you not to use them 'till they get adjusted or the W2K Extended Kernel get's fixed.

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Reply 26 of 759, by bakemono

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I don't know BWC's contact info, but I tried posting a comment on the blog.

Back to ganged...

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Reply 27 of 759, by DosFreak

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I knw you asked for C2 Extreme but I just finished putting together my C2Q with Windows 98SE so here it is.

This program is great btw.

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Reply 28 of 759, by red-ray

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DosFreak wrote:

I knw you asked for C2 Extreme but I just finished putting together my C2Q with Windows 98SE so here it is.

Thank you, given this is 98SE I was quite pleased to see that SIV got the cache topology correct and reported both GPUs.

Is the system Dual Boot with Windows XP or later? If so then SIV should report the memory timing information, Disk SMART data, DIMM SPD, etc. if you run it from the other system. Below is what it reports on my Core 2 system.

file.php?id=67498

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Last edited by red-ray on 2019-08-27, 00:07. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 29 of 759, by red-ray

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bakemono wrote:

I don't know BWC's contact info, but I tried posting a comment on the blog. Back to ganged...

Thank you for posting the comment and please let me know what they say. Martin has told me that he will update HWiNFO to do much the same as SIV does so the next Beta should report Legacy Boot and only call GetFirmwareEnvironmentVariable() on WXP and later.

I am adjusting SIV so from 5.41 Beta-19 it will report one of Dual Channel, Ganged Channel or Single Channel.

Reply 30 of 759, by DosFreak

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Same system but with Windows 10.

Posted using Opera 10.70 Build 3488

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Reply 31 of 759, by red-ray

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DosFreak wrote:

Same system but with Windows 10.

Thank you, It's good to know the SIV X38 support is OK. I guess you ran SIV from the pre-install environment so the GK110 [GeForce GTX 780] drivers were not installed and SIV only reported the GeForce4 MX 420 [NV17.3] GPU.

Please may I have SIV_Gigabyte_X38-DQ6.dmi? This is a binary dump of the BIOS, contains the raw data reported on the [Machine] panel and when I have it SIV runs better in test mode.

Reply 32 of 759, by DosFreak

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Attached. Yup this is from PE.

I just got this system setup so only have 1 SSD that is running 98 in there currently but I have a ton of old SSD drives laying around so plan is to install an OS to each. This will be for game and application compatibility testing.

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Reply 33 of 759, by red-ray

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DosFreak wrote:

I just got this system setup so only have 1 SSD that is running 98 in there currently but I have a ton of old SSD drives laying around so plan is to install an OS to each. This will be for game and application compatibility testing.

Thank you. I tend to just have one disk in my test systems with multiple partitions for different OSes.

I just spotted the GK110 [GeForce GTX 780] reported Chipset ID FFFFFFFF which I have never seen before. It should be 0F0050A1 and I suspect it will be once you load the drivers.

[1 - 00 - 0] <- [PCI Bus] <- SIV32L - System Information Viewer V5.41 Beta-19 MININT-PESQ89::NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM

[ 1 - 00 - 0 ] - nVidia GK110 [GeForce GTX 780] - Vendor ID 10DE-1004-17843842-A1 size 1000 PCIe BAR 0000E8000000 (63)

Device Class 0x030000 VGA Controller Chipset ID FFFFFFFF

[1 - 00 - 0] <- [GPU Information] <- SIV64X - System Information Viewer V5.41 Beta-19 SPEEDY-V::Administrator

nVidia GK110 [GeForce GTX Titan] - Vendor ID 10DE-1005-27903842-A1 size 1000 PCIe BAR 0000E0000000 (255)

Device Class 0x030000 VGA Controller [GPU-0] Chipset ID 0F0050A1 [GK110]

Reply 34 of 759, by feipoa

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I see that the thread has been split since my last viewing, so for clarity, I am posting back about the NexGen PF110 PCI system running NT 3.51.

red-ray wrote:
Thank you for running the tests and I am quite pleased that the crash has gone which was basically caused by SIVRES.dll containi […]
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feipoa wrote:

Beta 12 still generates a Dr. Watson in NT 3.51, but I was able to run, SIV32L.exe -DBGINI -NOSIVRES > SIV_DBGOUT.log | more

After running this command I was unable to shutdown the system. I try to shutdown normally via the GUI (see image below), but after hitting OK, the system continues running as if I never asked it to shutdown.

Concerning Windows 95c, I no longer needed to run IDON.COM to use SIV32L, so whatever you adjusted worked.

Thank you for running the tests and I am quite pleased that the crash has gone which was basically caused by SIVRES.dll containing more images than NT 3.51 can handle. If you use SIV32L 5.41 Beta-15 (download/file.php?id=67253) then -NOSIVRES should not ne needed. Beta-15 should also report the CPU as NexGen and get the speed correct.

Using 5.41 Beta-15 on NT 3.51 please will you do SIV32L -DBGINI > SIV_DBGOUT.log | more, generate the two save files (Menu->File->Save Local) and either post or email them to me along with SIV_DBGOUT.log? The .DMI file is a dump of the BIOS data that's used to generate the [Machine] panel. Once I get these I suspect I will be able to improve the motherboard reporting.

If you do Menu->Machine->Shutdown what happens? Was SIV32L still active when you tried to do the shutdown? Can you post the Task Manager screenshot so I can see which programs are active. Post Menu->Edit->View STC Info so I can see what the SIV worker threads are doing.

I did not make any changes to address the IDON.COM issue which I think is down to the code in SHLWAPI.dll. Lets see what happens when you generate the SIV save file.

Please reply to SIV support for 386/486/586 class + Alpha CPUs and 3dfx + S3 + SiS + Matrox + XGI + old ATI + NVidia GPUs - Testing Help

I am now running beta-18 and did not experience any issue with system shutdown. I did still notice that the screen size is too small resulting in your buttons being truncated. Attached are the requested files.

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Last edited by feipoa on 2019-09-03, 07:04. Edited 1 time in total.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 35 of 759, by elianda

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Unoptimized FX!32 execution:

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Though most of the information is flaky/wrong though.

CPU is a ALPHA 21164A, RAM uses Parity, L3 Cache is 1 MB. GPU is not identified (Permedia2).

It would also be interesting to use the actual native SIV32A instead.

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Reply 36 of 759, by red-ray

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elianda wrote:

It would also be interesting to use the actual native SIV32A instead.

Wow, thank you. I felt asking for SIV to be tested on an Alpha was a long shot, but... I general getting SIV to report Alphas is tricky as much of the information is not available. If you post both the save files I will add support your motherboard and upload a new beta.

Using SIV32L the [Cache Latency] does not work, but with SIV32A it should do as should lots of other things. I suspect on W2K SIV32L would get 21164A, SIV32A should get this on both NT4 and W2K.

Currently I have only tested SIV on my DS20 (W2K RC2) and PWS 600a (W2K RC1 + NT4 SP6).

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Last edited by red-ray on 2019-08-27, 20:56. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 37 of 759, by red-ray

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feipoa wrote:

I am now running beta-18 and did not experience any issue with system shutdown. I did still notice that the screen size is too small resulting in your buttons being truncated. Attached are the requested files.

Thank you for running the test and posting the files. Casting my mind back something changed in the way Windows did screen sizing between 3.51 and 4.00 and this may be the reason for the size issue. Please try the attached SIV32O.exe to see it's any better. It's built to run on NT 3.10 so I suspect it may. You could do Menu->Tools->Maximum Lines->Set nn Lines to tell SIV how many lines to use.

DBGINI 2593  SIV32L V5.41 Beta-18 NEXGEN-NT::feipoa  Built Aug 24 2019 at 16:34:23  Windows NT x32 V3.51 Build 1057 Service Pack 5
DBGINI 2603 Calling net_get_date_info()
DBGINI 2683 Process Type 386 Level 3
DBGINI 2688 Process No CPUID Instruction

Looking in SIV_DBGOUT.log I can see that CPUID is not reported as available. I think this is because IDON.com has not been run, what happens if you run it in a command window?

After pondering IDON I adjusted SIV so please do SIV32O -NEXGEN -DBGINI > SIV_DBGOUT.log | more, the -NEXGEN tells SIV to do what IDON.com does, but I have not been able to test this works. What happens when you try this please?

Last edited by red-ray on 2019-08-28, 10:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 38 of 759, by elianda

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Ok here is my output from my Alpha system.

I was wondering also about the NExGen approach. If you enable IDON it identifies by CPUID as Cyrix 486SX. What does that help you to eventually identify it as NexGen CPU ?

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Reply 39 of 759, by red-ray

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elianda wrote:

I was wondering also about the NExGen approach. If you enable IDON it identifies by CPUID as Cyrix 486SX. What does that help you to eventually identify it as NexGen CPU ?

Thank you for the save files and I will post Beta-19 once I have added DEC 10EB164 motherboard support and improved the GPU detection.

What makes you think "If you enable IDON it identifies by CPUID as Cyrix 486SX"? AFAIK once CPUID is enabled then the maker will be returned as NexGenDriven, see download/file.php?id=67039. When I run SIV in test mode using that CPUZ save file SIV reports NexGen Nx586, but with CPUID Disabled it's an Intel 386.

[CPUID CPU-0] <- SIV32L - System Information Viewer V5.41 Beta-19 CPU-Z 1.89.3.x32

CPU-0 NexGen Nx586 (PF110) 101MHz STK 100.500MHz CPU 100.500MHz FSB 50.250MHz L2 0.000MHz

[Y]CPUID EAX EBX ECX EDX
00000000 00000001 4778654E 6E657669 72446E65 [Y]"NexGenDriven"
00000001 00000504 00000001 00000000 00000001 [_]09 APIC 0x00 [_]16 Count 0 [_]15 CMOV [_]08 CX8 [_]04 TSC [_]03 PSE

[CPUID CPU-0] <- SIV64X - System Information Viewer V5.41 Beta-19 NEXGEN-NT::

CPU-0 Intel 386 255 144MHz STK 143.791MHz CPU 143.791MHz FSB 143.791MHz L2 0.000MHz

[_]CPUID EAX EBX ECX EDX
00000000 00000001 756E6547 6C65746E 49656E69 [Y]"GenuineIntel"
00000001 000F03F1 00010000 00000000 00000001 [_]09 APIC 0x00 [Y]16 Count 1 [_]15 CMOV [_]08 CX8 [_]04 TSC [_]03 PSE