About 0% of computers before 1998 had USB ports 😁

I remember my first personal PC in 1998 (k6) did not have them.

kolderman wrote on 2020-03-30, 06:20:

About 0% of computers before 1998 had USB ports 😁

The 440FX from 1996 already supported USB. It was not widely used back then, but already there.

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-30, 06:17:

NUSB works with USB 2.0 only.

Which is a shame really. USB 3.0 controllers are out for ten (!) years now and so much better than the previous generations in several details.
They support more power, have better shielded cables and a much greater throughput. Even/especially with older USB 1.x/2.x devices.
I still hope that some people will try to retrofit the NUSB package for plain old USB 3 (not 3.1, 3.2, Gen something etc).. It's about time.
Even if it's only USB 2.0 protocol with the 4 wire connection, but at full speeds. 😀

Jo22 wrote on 2020-03-30, 12:39:

I still hope that some people will try to retrofit the NUSB package for plain old USB 3 (not 3.1, 3.2, Gen something etc).. It's about time.

Imposible. XHCI, the specification for usb3+, makes use of hardware and software facilites only modern hardware and OSs like NT6+, OSX and Linux offer.
ACTUALLY USB2 is already hard to retrofit, supporting only Win98+ and not all older boards take the cards.

Install USB Supplement (Win95 only) and Mass Storage Driver and you can use USB Sticks on 9x/98 with 1.0/1.1 too.
Never had any Trouble with it. (At least if its Intel Chipset..)
i always use Onboard headers.. and never had a problem running a USB Stick.. only one time with some crude PC-Chips Motherboard..

works even with early USB implementations.

USB Flash Driver for Windows 9x
ftp://ftp.dosreloaded.de/Massenspeicher/USB/W … %20Massstorage/

>>>>
>>>>ACTUALLY USB2 is already hard to retrofit, supporting only Win98+ and not all older boards take the cards.

In old machines use NEC OHCI USB 2.0 Cards, they offer best compatibility.
But you can run into IRQ Madness.. some VIA Cards reserve up to 2!
Also work in a variety of Machines i used them on:
- UltraSparc Systems
- PowerPC MACs
- G3 PowerMac
- 486 PC
- Amiga

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-30, 06:17:

NUSB works with USB 2.0 only.

Not true. It also works with USB 1.1 and flash drives connected to such ports. Not sure about USB 1.0, though I do remember using a flash drive on a 430TX board a few years ago. Sadly, I can't test it because I don't have it anymore. A part of my ceiling fell on top of it, ruining its L2 cache chips 🙁

hyoenmadan wrote on 2020-03-30, 15:33:

Imposible. XHCI, the specification for usb3+, makes use of hardware and software facilites only modern hardware and OSs like NT6+, OSX and Linux offer.
ACTUALLY USB2 is already hard to retrofit, supporting only Win98+ and not all older boards take the cards.

Someone managed to port XHCI to XP, if I'm not mistaken.

I am pretty sure the 430HX based Intel brand board I used for a machine I built for my brother had no trouble with a USB mouse . I remember reading about USB compatibility issues on that board, however .

Just wanted to chime in that I had a Pentium 200 Vaio from late '96 that had USB ports and an Intel chipset. Not sure what chipset, not sure what USB Rev., but this was a high end consumer PC released in 1996. I definitely had USB working with third-party drivers under Windows 95 OSR2. I never tried a USB keyboard or mouse, but it had no issues using several USB thumb drives.

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-30, 06:17:

NUSB works with USB 2.0 only.

Well, NUSB works just fine in my P2B-S which, AFAIK, is not USB 2.0 capable.

It may not be optimized for USB 1.0/1.1, but it does a good job at recognizing most of my flash drives.

NUSB works just fine with USB 1.0 as well. Just tried it on another 430TX board (QDI P5I430TX Titanium IB+). The other board I had was a DFI 586ITBD Rev.A1.

radiounix wrote on 2020-04-21, 14:57:

Just wanted to chime in that I had a Pentium 200 Vaio from late '96 that had USB ports and an Intel chipset. Not sure what chipset, not sure what USB Rev., but this was a high end consumer PC released in 1996. I definitely had USB working with third-party drivers under Windows 95 OSR2. I never tried a USB keyboard or mouse, but it had no issues using several USB thumb drives.

usb mass storage is long known to be working in OSR2, there's also XUSBSUPP for that. the interesting part is to actually get a keyboard or mouse to work as there's simply no universal USB HID driver available, so these devices aren't recognized.

auron wrote on 2020-04-22, 20:21:

radiounix wrote on 2020-04-21, 14:57:

Just wanted to chime in that I had a Pentium 200 Vaio from late '96 that had USB ports and an Intel chipset. Not sure what chipset, not sure what USB Rev., but this was a high end consumer PC released in 1996. I definitely had USB working with third-party drivers under Windows 95 OSR2. I never tried a USB keyboard or mouse, but it had no issues using several USB thumb drives.

usb mass storage is long known to be working in OSR2, there's also XUSBSUPP for that. the interesting part is to actually get a keyboard or mouse to work as there's simply no universal USB HID driver available, so these devices aren't recognized.

Gotcha. I've never really had USB mice and keyboards, so I never really ran into that. My idea of legacy ports is only starting to extend to PS/2.

hyoenmadan wrote on 2020-03-30, 15:33:

Jo22 wrote on 2020-03-30, 12:39:

I still hope that some people will try to retrofit the NUSB package for plain old USB 3 (not 3.1, 3.2, Gen something etc).. It's about time.

Imposible. XHCI, the specification for usb3+, makes use of hardware and software facilites only modern hardware and OSs like NT6+, OSX and Linux offer.
ACTUALLY USB2 is already hard to retrofit, supporting only Win98+ and not all older boards take the cards.

Ah, I see. I forgot how dated and limited Win9x was. Back in time, I pretty much ignored the on-board USB 1.x controllers and installed useful USB 2.0 controller cards.
Same on laptops. All my Win 9x/Win XP laptops run on USB 2, at least. For those which had USB 1.x installed only, I got PCMCIA-USB2 cards.
Just hoped people would manage to support the good USB 3.0 controllers by now (NEC/Renesas), even if it only was for their USB 2.0 functionality.
Real USB 2.0 controllers are dissappearing by now (gratefuly, in 2020 its about time).
Anyway, FIrewire 800 is still worth a try. In the past, I heard of some flash card adapters (Lexibook ?) that would run on Firewire 800.
That beeing said, flash card reader for PCMCIA/PC-Card/CardBus might be easier to come by.

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-30, 06:17:

NUSB works with USB 2.0 only.

You mean none of the add-on cards you tried were even detected? Then there's a serious problem with the PCI bus... PCI uses bus enumeration and it's impossible for a card not being detected.

Actually, there are several revisions of the PCI bus. And if I remember correctly, USB 2.0 cards wouldn't work in some older pre-MMX Pentium and 486 systems for that reason. Which is a shame, since those would be exactly the generation of PCs in which such an upgrade would be useful.

It may have had something to do with differences in supported voltages, but I'm not sure. Maybe this was only an issue with the earliest revisions of the PCI bus.

digger wrote on 2020-05-10, 00:23:

Actually, there are several revisions of the PCI bus. And if I remember correctly, USB 2.0 cards wouldn't work in some older pre-MMX Pentium and 486 systems for that reason. Which is a shame, since those would be exactly the generation of PCs in which such an upgrade would be useful.

NEC USB 2.0 cards do work on 430FX, though, which doesn't have built-in USB and is mostly Socket 5. Dunno about other USB 2.0 chips.

TechieDude wrote on 2020-05-10, 10:43:

digger wrote on 2020-05-10, 00:23:

Actually, there are several revisions of the PCI bus. And if I remember correctly, USB 2.0 cards wouldn't work in some older pre-MMX Pentium and 486 systems for that reason. Which is a shame, since those would be exactly the generation of PCs in which such an upgrade would be useful.

NEC USB 2.0 cards do work on 430FX, though, which doesn't have built-in USB and is mostly Socket 5. Dunno about other USB 2.0 chips.

PCI 2.1, that's what I meant, sorry:

Re: Which USB 2.0 cards for old motherboards

By the way, it's interesting how you got an NEC USB 2.0 card to work on a motherbord with a 430FX chipset, since that chipset apparently only supports PCI 2.0, at least according to Anandtech:

PCI Specification: 2.0 (66 MHz max.)

Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/72/4

digger wrote on 2020-05-13, 12:15:

By the way, it's interesting how you got an NEC USB 2.0 card to work on a motherbord with a 430FX chipset, since that chipset apparently only supports PCI 2.0, at least according to Anandtech:

PCI Specification: 2.0 (66 MHz max.)

Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/72/4

I just put the card in the system and then installed XUSBSUPP by Lone Crusader. I am running Windows 95C and the motherboard is an Intel Advanced/EV. Obviously, I only get USB 1.1 effectively since there is no USB 2.0 for Win95, but I didn't have any USB 1.x cards around, so I had to make due with that one. I got flash drives to work, so it works. Might try Win98SE with 98lite for EHCI at some point.