Considering surfing the modern web on old hardware then... heh I think you wrote way too much and I think I get the point anyway. However, considering your situation- if you somehow surf the net on DOS (I don't know why would anyone do that anyway) then I can say YES. You are using a 16bit operating system and it flat out rejects 32bit functionality as well as 64bit. Yes you are right but you are one of very few people that take it to another extreme or create a huge workaround. We are not talking about it here. We are talking about browsing the web on 9x or XP that are 32bit and, I will not be surprised if they still give you trouble. They are completely unencrypted and automatically run any kind of scripts you throw at them. Remember how much of a wild west was browsing the internet on Windows XP with IE? I mean you could do it if you want but what's the point? No I'm not keeping and of my confident information on old hardware and this is not my concern. You are still risking getting into some 32bit malware from some shitty script from some shitty website you visited or another tab your browser automatically opened. I wouldn't be surprised if they can still delete some data or system files which could result in a reinstall. Maybe not a big deal but this would be just annoying. Considering how much of a modern web is incompatible from the get go so... again, what's the point? It's just not for me. The best result you can get anyway is looking at some pictures at half the resolution and 40% accuracy or watching youtub videos at 144p 5fps. Seriously I know how this stuff works

The dirty secret about internet security is that YOU are the only antivirus that can protect your machine from 100% of viruses, i.e. don't click on the email attachment.

This is why most of the people who walk into the computer shop with a virus are clueless boomers and moms who can't stop clicking on every single link that appears on the screen.

My ideal "vintage" laptop would be a low-speed quad-core, fitted with 4GB of the fastest dual-channel RAM paired to the biggest 2.5-inch SATA SSD it can handle, and running Windows XP. Sound would be an external USB audio module, the Sound Blaster Extigy.

This is too juicy to resist ... I'll keep it short.

FTP and Telnet are all "insecure" in that they transmit passwords without encryption. This is only an issue if you have something running on your internal network that is sniffing traffic, or if you leave your internal network.

• Sniffing traffic is a lot less likely because everybody is uses Ethernet switches and not hubs. Less traffic is available for a machine to look at as a result.
• FTP traffic is more vulnerable because the entire userid and password appear in the packets. Telnet is less vulnerable because unless you are an impossibly fast typist each character gets sent separately.
• If you have something like this on your network already, your DOS machine getting p0wned is the least of your problems.

If you leave your home network your exposure increases. But your traffic generally flows through switches and routers controlled by your ISP or other ISPs and telcos, so they are not likely running scanners looking for passwords. You are most in danger from the machine or people on the other side of the connection that you are making ... the people who you are already sending your password to. ;-0 The risk is that they might try to see where else that password works.

Security is only as good as the software you run. I recently put the mTCP web server up on the open internet for 850+ hours and watched all of the miscreants try to break it along with the legitimate traffic. No problems. Choose your software wisely.

Limit your exposure:

• Don't dumb down your servers to allow DOS to connect. The prime example here is loosening the SMB encryption requirements. Find a different method to do what you need.
• If you do something slightly unsafe, do it on your own network.
• Don't open router or server permissions more than what is necessary. And even better, only open things up on demand as needed, and then restrict things again once the need has passed.
• Never reuse passwords.
• Keep your servers and other hardware patched and up to date. They are more much larger targets than your DOS machine.

BlackVega wrote on 2022-07-15, 20:43:

Considering surfing the modern web on old hardware then... heh I think you wrote way too much and I think I get the point anyway. However, considering your situation- if you somehow surf the net on DOS (I don't know why would anyone do that anyway) then I can say YES. You are using a 16bit operating system and it flat out rejects 32bit functionality as well as 64bit. Yes you are right but you are one of very few people that take it to another extreme or create a huge workaround. We are not talking about it here. We are talking about browsing the web on 9x or XP that are 32bit and, I will not be surprised if they still give you trouble. They are completely unencrypted and automatically run any kind of scripts you throw at them. Remember how much of a wild west was browsing the internet on Windows XP with IE? I mean you could do it if you want but what's the point? No I'm not keeping and of my confident information on old hardware and this is not my concern. You are still risking getting into some 32bit malware from some shitty script from some shitty website you visited or another tab your browser automatically opened. I wouldn't be surprised if they can still delete some data or system files which could result in a reinstall. Maybe not a big deal but this would be just annoying. Considering how much of a modern web is incompatible from the get go so... again, what's the point? It's just not for me. The best result you can get anyway is looking at some pictures at half the resolution and 40% accuracy or watching youtub videos at 144p 5fps. Seriously I know how this stuff works

My favorite way to browse the net on 9x era computers is to use Retrozilla (a fork of Firefox 2.0 with modern cyphers) and search.marginalia.nu (a search engine that prioritizes pre-html5 sites) to browse the still running ruins of Web 1.0 society. If I find a dead link interesting enough I'll jam it through theoldnet.com, which is a page that allows you to pages from the internet archive wayback machine without the heavy javascript overlay on low spec machines.
It's not like any sane person would use it to try use such machines to browse absurdly heavy sites like modern day facebook unless you're using something like Browservice which is a party trick more than anything else (if you want to be pedantic the old computer isn't even the one rendering the page at that point).

To mbbrutman's point, on my own home network I keep DOS-compatible things local. Anything ported out to the wider Internet is encrypted.

unirule wrote on 2022-07-15, 22:14:

BlackVega wrote on 2022-07-15, 20:43:

Considering surfing the modern web on old hardware then... heh I think you wrote way too much and I think I get the point anyway. However, considering your situation- if you somehow surf the net on DOS (I don't know why would anyone do that anyway) then I can say YES. You are using a 16bit operating system and it flat out rejects 32bit functionality as well as 64bit. Yes you are right but you are one of very few people that take it to another extreme or create a huge workaround. We are not talking about it here. We are talking about browsing the web on 9x or XP that are 32bit and, I will not be surprised if they still give you trouble. They are completely unencrypted and automatically run any kind of scripts you throw at them. Remember how much of a wild west was browsing the internet on Windows XP with IE? I mean you could do it if you want but what's the point? No I'm not keeping and of my confident information on old hardware and this is not my concern. You are still risking getting into some 32bit malware from some shitty script from some shitty website you visited or another tab your browser automatically opened. I wouldn't be surprised if they can still delete some data or system files which could result in a reinstall. Maybe not a big deal but this would be just annoying. Considering how much of a modern web is incompatible from the get go so... again, what's the point? It's just not for me. The best result you can get anyway is looking at some pictures at half the resolution and 40% accuracy or watching youtub videos at 144p 5fps. Seriously I know how this stuff works

My favorite way to browse the net on 9x era computers is to use Retrozilla (a fork of Firefox 2.0 with modern cyphers) and search.marginalia.nu (a search engine that prioritizes pre-html5 sites) to browse the still running ruins of Web 1.0 society. If I find a dead link interesting enough I'll jam it through theoldnet.com, which is a page that allows you to pages from the internet archive wayback machine without the heavy javascript overlay on low spec machines.
It's not like any sane person would use it to try use such machines to browse absurdly heavy sites like modern day facebook unless you're using something like Browservice which is a party trick more than anything else (if you want to be pedantic the old computer isn't even the one rendering the page at that point).

Actually, you'd be surprised, Facebook works fine on my 486 on RetroZilla. It works in low-resource mode (the site detects it). Made a few posts on there before I quit. I also vouch for retrozilla - https://msfn.org/board/topic/181416-retrozill … munity-edition/ - look at that thread and you'll find out how to disable the insecure/outdated protocols in RetroZilla.

Possibly the newest browser I've used in Windows on a vintage system is Firefox 0.58 LTSB on my 486 DX4-100 64MB desktop in Windows 2000 Professional SP4. It's slow as molasses in january, but it works, and it does render modern sites just fine.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should do a retro-PC web browser video/thread.......I'm starting to realize a lot of this is not a common knowledge as I thought. Including the DOS Stuff.

That said, I'm not using it for "nostalgia" so much as I'm using it for a practical purpose - downloading software directly off the internet vs. downloading on a new machine then pushing over using FTPSRV, as well as reading informational pages with lots of text, rather than looking at pictures, or downloading PDF files to read in Acrobat. I also use it to test my website(s) to see how "vintage" friendly they are.

creepingnet wrote on 2022-07-15, 23:46:

Facebook works fine on my 486 on RetroZilla. It works in low-resource mode (the site detects it). Made a few posts on there before I quit.

This may or may not still be true. Mobile version of Twitter used to work in Retrozilla too, until it didn't any more. Social media sites heavily enforce Javascript functionality these days, so they'll tell you your browser is "unsupported" even if it can render the page fine otherwise.

creepingnet wrote on 2022-07-15, 23:46:

Actually, you'd be surprised, Facebook works fine on my 486 on RetroZilla. It works in low-resource mode (the site detects it). […]
Show full quote

unirule wrote on 2022-07-15, 22:14:

BlackVega wrote on 2022-07-15, 20:43:

Considering surfing the modern web on old hardware then... heh I think you wrote way too much and I think I get the point anyway. However, considering your situation- if you somehow surf the net on DOS (I don't know why would anyone do that anyway) then I can say YES. You are using a 16bit operating system and it flat out rejects 32bit functionality as well as 64bit. Yes you are right but you are one of very few people that take it to another extreme or create a huge workaround. We are not talking about it here. We are talking about browsing the web on 9x or XP that are 32bit and, I will not be surprised if they still give you trouble. They are completely unencrypted and automatically run any kind of scripts you throw at them. Remember how much of a wild west was browsing the internet on Windows XP with IE? I mean you could do it if you want but what's the point? No I'm not keeping and of my confident information on old hardware and this is not my concern. You are still risking getting into some 32bit malware from some shitty script from some shitty website you visited or another tab your browser automatically opened. I wouldn't be surprised if they can still delete some data or system files which could result in a reinstall. Maybe not a big deal but this would be just annoying. Considering how much of a modern web is incompatible from the get go so... again, what's the point? It's just not for me. The best result you can get anyway is looking at some pictures at half the resolution and 40% accuracy or watching youtub videos at 144p 5fps. Seriously I know how this stuff works

My favorite way to browse the net on 9x era computers is to use Retrozilla (a fork of Firefox 2.0 with modern cyphers) and search.marginalia.nu (a search engine that prioritizes pre-html5 sites) to browse the still running ruins of Web 1.0 society. If I find a dead link interesting enough I'll jam it through theoldnet.com, which is a page that allows you to pages from the internet archive wayback machine without the heavy javascript overlay on low spec machines.
It's not like any sane person would use it to try use such machines to browse absurdly heavy sites like modern day facebook unless you're using something like Browservice which is a party trick more than anything else (if you want to be pedantic the old computer isn't even the one rendering the page at that point).

Actually, you'd be surprised, Facebook works fine on my 486 on RetroZilla. It works in low-resource mode (the site detects it). Made a few posts on there before I quit. I also vouch for retrozilla - https://msfn.org/board/topic/181416-retrozill … munity-edition/ - look at that thread and you'll find out how to disable the insecure/outdated protocols in RetroZilla.

Possibly the newest browser I've used in Windows on a vintage system is Firefox 0.58 LTSB on my 486 DX4-100 64MB desktop in Windows 2000 Professional SP4. It's slow as molasses in january, but it works, and it does render modern sites just fine.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should do a retro-PC web browser video/thread.......I'm starting to realize a lot of this is not a common knowledge as I thought. Including the DOS Stuff.

That said, I'm not using it for "nostalgia" so much as I'm using it for a practical purpose - downloading software directly off the internet vs. downloading on a new machine then pushing over using FTPSRV, as well as reading informational pages with lots of text, rather than looking at pictures, or downloading PDF files to read in Acrobat. I also use it to test my website(s) to see how "vintage" friendly they are.

A dedicated thread about ye olde shit getting around the so called "modern internet" would be cool. That is, after all, why the Marven section is here for right?

MarkP wrote on 2022-07-16, 06:46:

creepingnet wrote on 2022-07-15, 23:46:

Actually, you'd be surprised, Facebook works fine on my 486 on RetroZilla. It works in low-resource mode (the site detects it). […]
Show full quote

unirule wrote on 2022-07-15, 22:14:

My favorite way to browse the net on 9x era computers is to use Retrozilla (a fork of Firefox 2.0 with modern cyphers) and search.marginalia.nu (a search engine that prioritizes pre-html5 sites) to browse the still running ruins of Web 1.0 society. If I find a dead link interesting enough I'll jam it through theoldnet.com, which is a page that allows you to pages from the internet archive wayback machine without the heavy javascript overlay on low spec machines.
It's not like any sane person would use it to try use such machines to browse absurdly heavy sites like modern day facebook unless you're using something like Browservice which is a party trick more than anything else (if you want to be pedantic the old computer isn't even the one rendering the page at that point).

Actually, you'd be surprised, Facebook works fine on my 486 on RetroZilla. It works in low-resource mode (the site detects it). Made a few posts on there before I quit. I also vouch for retrozilla - https://msfn.org/board/topic/181416-retrozill … munity-edition/ - look at that thread and you'll find out how to disable the insecure/outdated protocols in RetroZilla.

Possibly the newest browser I've used in Windows on a vintage system is Firefox 0.58 LTSB on my 486 DX4-100 64MB desktop in Windows 2000 Professional SP4. It's slow as molasses in january, but it works, and it does render modern sites just fine.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should do a retro-PC web browser video/thread.......I'm starting to realize a lot of this is not a common knowledge as I thought. Including the DOS Stuff.

That said, I'm not using it for "nostalgia" so much as I'm using it for a practical purpose - downloading software directly off the internet vs. downloading on a new machine then pushing over using FTPSRV, as well as reading informational pages with lots of text, rather than looking at pictures, or downloading PDF files to read in Acrobat. I also use it to test my website(s) to see how "vintage" friendly they are.

A dedicated thread about ye olde shit getting around the so called "modern internet" would be cool. That is, after all, why the Marven section is here for right?

I'm actually writing one today in plaintext first because it would be super-long, as I'm covering DOS, Win31x, Win9x, and maybe a little on Windows NT since I'm not that interested in vintage PC's past the Pentium era but I do have that 486 that has Windows 2000 Pro on it that runs Firefox. I also am thinking of making a video for my YouTube Channel as well (creepingnet) because I have not really covered this as in-depth and I can show more of what it's like and how easy it is to use and whatnot.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-07-15, 21:56:

My ideal "vintage" laptop would be a low-speed quad-core, fitted with 4GB of the fastest dual-channel RAM paired to the biggest 2.5-inch SATA SSD it can handle, and running Windows XP. Sound would be an external USB audio module, the Sound Blaster Extigy.

Why a low speed quad core? The newest laptop CPUs sip power comparatively speaking and are magnitudes faster.

The only problem you would run into is that XP won't have drivers for any of the newer video cards or onboard video for that matter.

Relative to the Satellite 2805 what are the weaknesses of the Dell Inspiron 8100 / Latitude C810?
On the downside the laptops weigh 9 whole pounds and lack the "name brand" yamaha sound card but on the upside they seem to have stronger core specs (1.1ghz Pentium 3, same Geforce2go, and the option for a 1600x1200 screen).
I think their biggest advantage is that these laptops sold relatively well when new, at least in North America these machines and their parts are very obtainable relative to the 2805.

Guys, what do you know about Toshiba 1805-274?

https://support.dynabook.com/support/staticCo … omTOCLink=false

Scaling on Trident? Its sound? Works in dos?

At last check I have 7 "retro" laptops.
They are all different, all but three have DOS compatible sound chips. Some better than others.
No they aren't all required, but different enough to be useful.

Overkill but that is the way that I am.

Here's another laptop: an Austin M1RC.

And here are the specs:

Pentium 100 2.9V
ES1688F
16MB RAM (proprietary)
1.44MB Mitsumi FDD
2GB SD (SD2IDE) that I recently installed
Li-Ion battery (needs a calibration)
TFT display (either 800x600 or 1024x768)
CL-GD7543 video (between 1-2MB video RAM)
CL-PD6729 PCMCIA
Intel i430MX chipset

Granted, the PCMCIA drivers aren't easy to find, yet the rest are easy to find (not sure about the chipset drivers).

Guys, I've got Compaq Armada 7792DM, what do you know bout it? If I'm correct it has hardware WaveTable Synth.

Perfect condition, but no battery (at all, need smth as a placeholder).

I also got Toshiba 420CDT. It's not working, blinks with power cable sign. Maybe you know the message? Maybe it’s a common problem?

https://youtu.be/c3kSiCdVWBc

That PSU behaviour looks like either a failed PSU, or a dead short on the board, that the PSU is detecting and resetting for. If you take it apart, the PSU plugs into a header near the front of the mainboard, you could disconnect it and check whether that header shows an open circuit or a short.
Often the 4xxCDT laptops will just turn on and do nothing, so at least a PSU fault is something new. You might need to check the mainboard front and back for any electrolyte that maybe could be causing a short?
Or if you have a bench PSU, you could hook up 15v to the header on the mainboard where the PSU plugs in, using the bench PSU in place of the internal PSU.

Try removing parts too, I recently got a Toshiba Satellite 540CDT that was not turning on, I took it apart a long way only to find out that it would only fail to start if the CD drive was installed. It turned out that there was a shorted MLCC capacitor in the CD-rom drive itself.

Sadly it’s main board causing the issue. I took laptop apart, disconnected everything except motherboard and status panel, and still I get this, both on battery and ac. Tried without ac board, same.

Despite batteries were not leaked I found green signs not only on connector but also near it.

Guess I need to take the board out and clean it.

vorob wrote on 2022-09-02, 05:21:

Despite batteries were not leaked I found green signs not only on connector but also near it.

Guess I need to take the board out and clean it.

The batteries leak into the shrinkwrap and into the cables. You will not find leakage near the batteries but around the connector.
All Toshibas around that time have this problem…