VOGONS


First post, by nzoomed

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Firstly, IDK if there is an official thread here on retrobrighting techniques, but I believe UV light alone has been shown to work, as has ozone without the need to buy expensive peroxide or chemicals.

I was thinking I should try taking it one step further and use a high energy UV-C tube.
Please note these lights are dangerous to look at or expose your skin to when running, so caution is needed, but is easy to mitigate, by using inside a closed box, even a cardboard box would work fine, but even better would be to design a wooden box out of plywood with a switch on the lid that turns the bulb off if opened.

The beauty with UV-C is that it produces copious amounts of ozone gas when turned on, more so than a regular Ozone generator that requires a plastic bag to be well sealed.

Im going to experiment with an old EPROM eraser and see if i get any results.
Im hoping this will not only work quicker than other methods, but give a more even result, especially if the ozone has the better effect over the UV light itself, but with both combined, it may work well
Any other suggestions? Im interested if anyone else has tried this.
I dont have many items that need retrobrighting, but am keen to give it a go.

Edit - ive got a couple of yellow keys in my EPROM eraser right now, I will leave them in for 2-3 hours and get back on the results.

Reply 1 of 18, by H3nrik V!

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If you are planning on taking the tube out of the EPROM eraser to use on bigger items, do remember that the UV-C radiation is probably pretty harmful - both to the eyes and to the skin ...

Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀

Reply 2 of 18, by derSammler

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nzoomed wrote on 2020-02-18, 00:54:

I was thinking I should try taking it one step further and use a high energy UV-C tube.

Retrobrighting works without UV-C, which does not even pass the atmosphere. All you do with high energy UV-C is to damage the plastics and expose yourself to dangerous radiation.

Reply 3 of 18, by junglemontana

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As far as I remember, mercury lamps radiate UVC at two wavelengths and only the shorter of them produces ozone. If you want ozone, make sure that your lamp does not filter the shorter wavelength. Some lamps do.

Reply 4 of 18, by nzoomed

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As I said, im aware of the dangers, and using enclosed is totally safe.
Anyway, the keys in te eraser have had 2 hours and no visible effect.

Why are some people saying that sunlight works? I thought the sunlight caused the yellowing to begin with?
I was more interested in the UV-C for producing ozone which the 8 bit guy had some success with using an ozone generator.

Either way, ill leave a couple more hours and see if it makes any difference.

Reply 6 of 18, by nzoomed

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foil_fresh wrote on 2020-02-19, 06:37:

the yellowing comes from bromine in the atmosphere binding to plastic over time.

I thought it was the sunlight that triggered this though?
I have a breadbin C64 in its box and its got zero yellowing.
I have a macintosh LC II that has yellowed on top, except where an object was placed over it and looks like a white ring in the yellow.
So light must be doing something to make the bromine escape.

Reply 7 of 18, by digistorm

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There are a couple of youtubers that have success with UV-A / UV-B lights or even bare blue LEDs that are normally used with the yellow phosphorus, in combination with hydrogen peroxide. I’m not sure if UV-C has the same effect as it doesn’t occur naturally (especially indoors).

Reply 8 of 18, by nzoomed

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digistorm wrote on 2020-02-19, 12:11:

There are a couple of youtubers that have success with UV-A / UV-B lights or even bare blue LEDs that are normally used with the yellow phosphorus, in combination with hydrogen peroxide. I’m not sure if UV-C has the same effect as it doesn’t occur naturally (especially indoors).

I can confirm that my results with UV-C in the EPROM eraser have given zero results, i couldnt smell much in the way of ozone either, so perhaps its not the greatest means of generating the stuff, my main idea was that it may have been a good source of ozone.
ozone seems to have good results but you need to seal in a bag and i think most of those ozone generators are not the most powerful in terms of ozone output.

Reply 9 of 18, by junglemontana

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nzoomed wrote on 2020-02-19, 21:27:
digistorm wrote on 2020-02-19, 12:11:

There are a couple of youtubers that have success with UV-A / UV-B lights or even bare blue LEDs that are normally used with the yellow phosphorus, in combination with hydrogen peroxide. I’m not sure if UV-C has the same effect as it doesn’t occur naturally (especially indoors).

I can confirm that my results with UV-C in the EPROM eraser have given zero results, i couldnt smell much in the way of ozone either, so perhaps its not the greatest means of generating the stuff, my main idea was that it may have been a good source of ozone.
ozone seems to have good results but you need to seal in a bag and i think most of those ozone generators are not the most powerful in terms of ozone output.

I checked what I wrote earlier, and yes, not all UV-C lamps produce ozone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_ger … dal_irradiation

Another potential danger is the UV production of ozone, which can be harmful to one's health. The US Environmental Protection Agency designated 0.05 parts per million (ppm) of ozone to be a safe level. Lamps designed to release UVC and higher frequencies are doped so that any UV light below 254 nm wavelengths will not be released, to minimize ozone production. A full-spectrum lamp will release all UV wavelengths, and will produce ozone when UVC hits oxygen (O2) molecules.

I experimented with a mercury street lamp a few years ago. It definitely produced ozone after the outer bulb was "carefully" removed. So that's one way of producing ozone, although it requires some effort and such a lamp with its ballast may be a bit bulky.

Or, you can buy a cheap ozone generator from eBay. But keep in mind that some of them may be of bad quality, electrically dangerous or they may produce EM interference. I had a "ceramic plate high voltage ozone generator" once, it was anything but safe and it failed within a minute.

Reply 10 of 18, by wiretap

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For $52, these in combination with hair developer will retr0brite in just several hours.. the latest 8-bit Guy video demonstrates it with a Commodore 64 case.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSZGP1Q/

Demo video: https://youtu.be/_GH0ZpaTwqs?t=1061

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Reply 11 of 18, by nzoomed

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junglemontana wrote on 2020-02-20, 09:52:
I checked what I wrote earlier, and yes, not all UV-C lamps produce ozone. […]
Show full quote
nzoomed wrote on 2020-02-19, 21:27:
digistorm wrote on 2020-02-19, 12:11:

There are a couple of youtubers that have success with UV-A / UV-B lights or even bare blue LEDs that are normally used with the yellow phosphorus, in combination with hydrogen peroxide. I’m not sure if UV-C has the same effect as it doesn’t occur naturally (especially indoors).

I can confirm that my results with UV-C in the EPROM eraser have given zero results, i couldnt smell much in the way of ozone either, so perhaps its not the greatest means of generating the stuff, my main idea was that it may have been a good source of ozone.
ozone seems to have good results but you need to seal in a bag and i think most of those ozone generators are not the most powerful in terms of ozone output.

I checked what I wrote earlier, and yes, not all UV-C lamps produce ozone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_ger … dal_irradiation

Another potential danger is the UV production of ozone, which can be harmful to one's health. The US Environmental Protection Agency designated 0.05 parts per million (ppm) of ozone to be a safe level. Lamps designed to release UVC and higher frequencies are doped so that any UV light below 254 nm wavelengths will not be released, to minimize ozone production. A full-spectrum lamp will release all UV wavelengths, and will produce ozone when UVC hits oxygen (O2) molecules.

I experimented with a mercury street lamp a few years ago. It definitely produced ozone after the outer bulb was "carefully" removed. So that's one way of producing ozone, although it requires some effort and such a lamp with its ballast may be a bit bulky.

Or, you can buy a cheap ozone generator from eBay. But keep in mind that some of them may be of bad quality, electrically dangerous or they may produce EM interference. I had a "ceramic plate high voltage ozone generator" once, it was anything but safe and it failed within a minute.

Interesting to know, this fluorescent tube says its a germicidal tube, and these typically produce ozone i thought, I think I can smell it, but its not strong.
Probably why I didnt get any results.

wiretap wrote on 2020-02-20, 10:28:

For $52, these in combination with hair developer will retr0brite in just several hours.. the latest 8-bit Guy video demonstrates it with a Commodore 64 case.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSZGP1Q/

Demo video: https://youtu.be/_GH0ZpaTwqs?t=1061

Yes I had just watched his video, which gave me the idea to experiment with UV-C.
I would like to try experimenting with Ozone, because the whole idea of going the lamp/ozone route was to avoid the need for expensive chemicals to begin with.

I will see if i can find an ozone generator anyway, I know the 8-bit guy had results with it.

Reply 12 of 18, by oohms

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Maybe you need a 'real' UV-C lamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0TQjBRcFo

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Reply 14 of 18, by nzoomed

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wiretap wrote on 2020-02-20, 12:25:

How expensive is considered an expensive chemical? A bottle of 32oz 40 Volume Developer is about $4.

Its about $9 for 100ml of the stuff here in New Zealand, you would need a few bottles of the stuff to do a C64 (100ml is less than half a cup!)
The 8 bit guy appeared to be using much larger bottles in his videos.
Anyway, I think its possible to source hydrogen peroxide in bulk at higher concentrations and alot cheaper if im going to be doing a bit of this.

I definitely think ozone has great potential anyway if it is effective, has added benefits of being able to place a whole item in it without getting it wet or requiring any disassembly too, is great for fragile or difficult to dismantle parts.

Reply 16 of 18, by Tiido

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I bought a cheap 6W germicidal lamp from china (which arrived in 1 week somehow 🤣) and it surely produces a lot of ozone. I have used it for its intended purpose only so far but I might try it in a box with a piss colored Dreamcast shell (taht changed color hidden away in a closet) to see what would happen.

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Reply 17 of 18, by nzoomed

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Tiido wrote on 2020-02-21, 06:48:

I bought a cheap 6W germicidal lamp from china (which arrived in 1 week somehow 🤣) and it surely produces a lot of ozone. I have used it for its intended purpose only so far but I might try it in a box with a piss colored Dreamcast shell (taht changed color hidden away in a closet) to see what would happen.

Please give it a try and get back on the results!
I want to order a bulb, but will have to wait ages with the way things are with coronavirus at the moment over there.

Reply 18 of 18, by brostenen

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derSammler wrote on 2020-02-18, 12:15:
nzoomed wrote on 2020-02-18, 00:54:

I was thinking I should try taking it one step further and use a high energy UV-C tube.

Retrobrighting works without UV-C, which does not even pass the atmosphere. All you do with high energy UV-C is to damage the plastics and expose yourself to dangerous radiation.

Cancer... The bonus price of untested retrobright techniques. 😜

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