VOGONS


Reply 20 of 42, by LHN91

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dr_st wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:03:

Is is that it doesn't accept some Win9x drivers, or it accepts them but they conflict with other things?

VxD drivers tend to cause issues in Windows ME - many of the changes made for ME were made with the WDM driver model in mind. And a lot of manufacturers didn't make great WDM drivers, or just never bothered to make their drivers work well on ME, or didn't make WDM drivers at all.

Drivers for 9x usually work fine but enough cause issues that it's earned ME the reputation for instability, despite the problems largely lying in substandard device manufacturer support.

Reply 21 of 42, by hwh

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IMO, WinME is more stable and easier to use than 98. It has system restore. Obviously the DOS support isn't there, so it's not as versatile as 98, but it is the most sophisticated iteration of its platform. It's full of features you wish 98 had, but not that different at the same time.

Not to speak poorly of 98, that's another topic with another conclusion.

Reply 23 of 42, by undeon

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Well... I'll do everything I can to keep Millenium... He saved me a full day of installation and updating Windows XP, drivers, etc.... If was Windows 98, good bye Windows XP boot screen and anyone can guarantee that the fixboot would recover the boot this time, since it failed to recover the Millenium boot when I tryied...

ANYWAY... Guys, sorry for being rude, but I wouldnt like to shift the focus of the topic... This is a topic about a "modern hardware" (for the period) running older software... Not a Windows 98 vs Windows Millenium topic...

Reply 25 of 42, by Tetrium

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dr_st wrote on 2020-06-23, 10:40:

Is it really less stable than Win9x? In what way?

Windows ME is actually a Windows 9x Windows 😜
Just like NT basically included Win2k and WinXP.

Last edited by Tetrium on 2020-06-24, 21:24. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 26 of 42, by Tetrium

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-06-23, 09:00:

WinMe just didn't aged well. All benefits it had over Win9x are completely irrelevant now, but worse DOS support and instability are still there.

ME actually aged pretty well, especially when comparing it to something like Win2k which used to be great but has aged relatively badly.

LHN91 wrote on 2020-06-23, 13:12:

With decent drivers and the obvious changes made ME is plenty stable if you're working mostly in the Windows environment.

Built-in USB flash drive support and native Zip folder support are also quite nice to have when setting up a machine.

Basically., I find ME takes far less time to get set up than a similar 98SE configuration in many cases.

^This

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Reply 27 of 42, by Tetrium

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undeon wrote on 2020-06-24, 13:09:

Well... I'll do everything I can to keep Millenium... He saved me a full day of installation and updating Windows XP, drivers, etc.... If was Windows 98, good bye Windows XP boot screen and anyone can guarantee that the fixboot would recover the boot this time, since it failed to recover the Millenium boot when I tryied...

ANYWAY... Guys, sorry for being rude, but I wouldnt like to shift the focus of the topic... This is a topic about a "modern hardware" (for the period) running older software... Not a Windows 98 vs Windows Millenium topic...

My apologies 😵

Btw, feel free to give us any hardware pr0n to look at 😁

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Reply 28 of 42, by Baoran

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If you wanted to build win9x/winXP pc, for me optimal setup has been something like Athlon64 FX-60 with motherboard that has win9x drivers and would put fastest agp video you can find for winXP and add a pci voodoo card to it for win98.
Currently my system is win9x only with geforce FX5950 ultra because I have no need for winXP right now, but I did run it as win98/winxp system with geforce 7800 and voodoo 3 for a while and I had no problems. There are faster agp cards to use too but I don't have them.

Reply 29 of 42, by undeon

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Baoran wrote on 2020-06-25, 16:32:

If you wanted to build win9x/winXP pc, for me optimal setup has been something like Athlon64 FX-60 with motherboard that has win9x drivers and would put fastest agp video you can find for winXP and add a pci voodoo card to it for win98.
Currently my system is win9x only with geforce FX5950 ultra because I have no need for winXP right now, but I did run it as win98/winxp system with geforce 7800 and voodoo 3 for a while and I had no problems. There are faster agp cards to use too but I don't have them.

The FX-60 you suggested scored 1201 passmarks, while the Celeron 450 I'm using scored 667. But the 450 has only 35W TDP while the FX-60 has 110W. My CPU is already twice as fast as the Pentium III 1400S (fastest CPU before the launch of Windows XP so, the fastest CPU available for Windows ME). And I have the possibility to put an Core 2 Quad (and maybe a few Wolfdale CPUs after the BIOS mod).... Anyway, I don't need anything beefier than this CPUs, so I focused on efficiency to not burden the motherboard.

I choose the Quadro FX 1000 because of the support for earlier versions of DirectX. And it has enough power to simulate even an Voodoo 5500 with a glide wrapper.

I know this PC is not the fastest... Not even close considering "fully supported" hardware available, to not mention some crazy 98 builds using Ryzens... But it's fast enough to ran everything I want at max settings all the time. 😀

Reply 30 of 42, by Baoran

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undeon wrote on 2020-06-25, 16:51:
The FX-60 you suggested scored 1201 passmarks, while the Celeron 450 I'm using scored 667. But the 450 has only 35W TDP while th […]
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Baoran wrote on 2020-06-25, 16:32:

If you wanted to build win9x/winXP pc, for me optimal setup has been something like Athlon64 FX-60 with motherboard that has win9x drivers and would put fastest agp video you can find for winXP and add a pci voodoo card to it for win98.
Currently my system is win9x only with geforce FX5950 ultra because I have no need for winXP right now, but I did run it as win98/winxp system with geforce 7800 and voodoo 3 for a while and I had no problems. There are faster agp cards to use too but I don't have them.

The FX-60 you suggested scored 1201 passmarks, while the Celeron 450 I'm using scored 667. But the 450 has only 35W TDP while the FX-60 has 110W. My CPU is already twice as fast as the Pentium III 1400S (fastest CPU before the launch of Windows XP so, the fastest CPU available for Windows ME). And I have the possibility to put an Core 2 Quad (and maybe a few Wolfdale CPUs after the BIOS mod).... Anyway, I don't need anything beefier than this CPUs, so I focused on efficiency to not burden the motherboard.

I choose the Quadro FX 1000 because of the support for earlier versions of DirectX. And it has enough power to simulate even an Voodoo 5500 with a glide wrapper.

I know this PC is not the fastest... Not even close considering "fully supported" hardware available, to not mention some crazy 98 builds using Ryzens... But it's fast enough to ran everything I want at max settings all the time. 😀

I chose it basically because of winXP getting advantage from dual cores and the motherboard having full win98 drivers. I was basically doing a pc that worked well with win98 but you could also play crysis with it in winXP. At the moment one of the cores is just wasted though because only running win9x. Still been interesting PC to play around with.

Reply 31 of 42, by Caluser2000

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hwh wrote on 2020-06-24, 03:59:

IMO, WinME is more stable and easier to use than 98. It has system restore.

System Restore is usually the first thing folk disable. My experience with ME was good as well.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 32 of 42, by kolderman

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-06-25, 18:41:
hwh wrote on 2020-06-24, 03:59:

IMO, WinME is more stable and easier to use than 98. It has system restore.

System Restore is usually the first thing folk disable. My experience with ME was good as well.

My fondest memory of the XP era years as well 😁

Reply 33 of 42, by undeon

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Hello everyone... Some updates on the project... (I'm using a FX5200, since the new cooler didnt arrived yet)

-> I called Microsoft again and reactivated my Windows XP.... Since I'm not planning to update the hardware, I believe I'll not call them again...

-> The Audigy 2ZS arrived. It's working fine. I've installed the Windows XP drivers provided by Daniel K, but didnt find the drivers for Millenium... I didnt had time to search properly... Shame on me...

-> I've increased the ram to 1GB and it broke my Millenium. Thanks to Rudolph Loew patch it went back to life as if nothing had happened. I've installed his 127GB limit patch too...

-> For reasons I dont know, the NFSII:SE won't work anymore... When I click the icon, the EXE opens on Task Manager, but and the game itself wont start... It's not the first time this happens to me. I've installed it in a Windows 7, then applied a compatibility patch and the game worked fine on the fist time, to not work anymore... In ME, the game asked for the CD, so I believe it's working fine, at least... I'll investigate it more... Maybe it's a driver problem... Or the game just wants to run once... 🤣

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I want to recap the P5PE-VM... It's working fine, but some caps are bad and I want to use smaller, polymer caps, to install the Typhoon on it... Anyone know where I can get an schematics of this board? I need to know what caps are used to send it to the guy who will recap it. To ease his job.

Reply 34 of 42, by undeon

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Hello everyone, I got some updates....

The Evercool Cyclone arrived. I had a few troubles to uninstall the stock cooler, since the heatsink was glued and the spring was stuck, but everything went fine. The new cooler came with 8 heatsinks for the memory chips and everything is running fine now, and silently... Very silently (for the parts I have right now for building an old PC).
If I think I'll need more power, maybe I'll overclock the memories, since they can run at 400MHz or 500MHz, I dont remember, but they can run at GeForce FX5800 speeds fine...
I returned to the oldest graphic driver on XP, but the NFS didnt work. It's sad, because the WiFi on XP works a LOT better (30-50mbps) than ME (1 to 6mbps) and it sucks to download anything (and think that on 98 to 02 or 03 I browsed at 50kbps speeds...). Probably I'll give up on a dual system and build an dedicated Windows XP rig (I'm planning on a i5 3570S, 8GB or 16GB Ram and a GTX 750TI, since I already have these parts, but this will wait A LOT, since I'm low on cash and space right now...)

The next thing I'll do will be try a few DOS games (Shattered Steel and MechWarrior), glide games with dgvoodoo (Unreal)...

Cya

Reply 35 of 42, by undeon

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Hello everyone, I got some updates....

Almost 14k points on 3DMark 2001, default settings.
Unreal Gold running solid, but I'm to tired to try dgvoodoo, so I tested on Direct3D, 1024x768. Graphics and sound perfect.
Tomorrow (maybe) I'll try Shattered Steel, if I can extract it on WinXP. Thanks GOG... Good Old Games, but only on modern OS.
I uploaded the first pics...
On 06/20, I said I didnt noticed any difference on my setup after switched my 500GB SSHD for a 240GB SSD, since everything was already fast enough... But today I saw I forgot to enable DMA xD Now is even faster...

Reply 36 of 42, by MKT_Gundam

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undeon wrote on 2020-07-05, 03:40:
Hello everyone, I got some updates.... […]
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Hello everyone, I got some updates....

Almost 14k points on 3DMark 2001, default settings.
Unreal Gold running solid, but I'm to tired to try dgvoodoo, so I tested on Direct3D, 1024x768. Graphics and sound perfect.
Tomorrow (maybe) I'll try Shattered Steel, if I can extract it on WinXP. Thanks GOG... Good Old Games, but only on modern OS.
I uploaded the first pics...
On 06/20, I said I didnt noticed any difference on my setup after switched my 500GB SSHD for a 240GB SSD, since everything was already fast enough... But today I saw I forgot to enable DMA xD Now is even faster...

Instead using dgvoodoo, try Nglide. Works on both OS.

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 38 of 42, by undeon

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Hello everyone,

I'm a bit disapointed, to tell the true... My Quadro FX1000 can't handle nGlide at 1600x1200 on Unreal Gold (It uses Unreal Tournament engine)... On Direct3D it works perfectly. I'm using the first driver available... Maybe I'll update the driver to see if can improve something... But I'm hopeless in this case... Well... In the worst case scenario, its rock solid at D3D 😁

Reply 39 of 42, by MKT_Gundam

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undeon wrote on 2020-07-07, 12:05:

Hello everyone,

I'm a bit disapointed, to tell the true... My Quadro FX1000 can't handle nGlide at 1600x1200 on Unreal Gold (It uses Unreal Tournament engine)... On Direct3D it works perfectly. I'm using the first driver available... Maybe I'll update the driver to see if can improve something... But I'm hopeless in this case... Well... In the worst case scenario, its rock solid at D3D 😁

Did you tried in both ME/Xp?
Maybe the Quadro driver would be too new for the ME
Also for Unreal/ut99 just use the fan made patch for openGL

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.