S3 Virge.

kolderman wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:29:

S3 Virge.

I am using an S3-trio64 (PCI, 2mb ) right now.

Despite popular belief, the Virge can actually accelerate games on slower systems.

Here's someone playing Tomb Raider on a 5x86 + Virge: https://youtu.be/fq1d5eTAfvg

The ViRGE did not exist in 1995.

ATi Mach64 I'd say.

btw, no one had 128 MB PC133 RAM in 1995. That board is way too new for a 1995 build.

It was released in 95 according to Wikipedia.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:39:

The ViRGE did not exist in 1995.

ATi Mach64 I'd say.

btw, no one had 128 MB PC133 RAM in 1995. That board is way too new for a 1995 build.

True!
Also 128MB slows down the system, because it exceeds the cachable are of the mainboard, which is 64MB.
But it's ok, if you intend to slow it down.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:39:

btw, no one had 128 MB PC133 RAM in 1995. That board is way too new for a 1995 build.

Agreed, and as I recall, some DOS games actually exhibit problems with more than 32 MB (or was it 64?) of RAM memory.

I know Aladdin at the very least won't start unless I reduce my available memory via ramdrive.

CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:43:

True! Also 128MB slows down the system, because it exceeds the cachable are of the mainboard, which is 64MB. But it's ok, if you […]
Show full quote

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:39:

The ViRGE did not exist in 1995.

ATi Mach64 I'd say.

btw, no one had 128 MB PC133 RAM in 1995. That board is way too new for a 1995 build.

True!
Also 128MB slows down the system, because it exceeds the cachable are of the mainboard, which is 64MB.
But it's ok, if you intend to slow it down.

I do have one SDRAM 64mb DIMM. Not sure what speed it is. Might be a PC-100

kolderman wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:41:

It was released in 95 according to Wikipedia.

First cards were released in early 1996. It was probably announced in 1995, or maybe the chip itself was ready at that time for manufacturers to build cards around it.

//edit:
According to vgamuseum.info, the original ViRGE was announced on Monday, 13 November 1995. The first card was the Diamond Stealth 3D 2000XL released on May 16, 1996 (press release here).

FYI: Intel 430TX chipset was released in 1997.

And for 1997 built you have many many options...

I am not trying to build an entirely period correct computer.
I want to base it around the Pentium 133 thru 233.
So I want the best performance for NEW and Old DOS games.
I plan on running the CPU at 386sx-33 and 486sx-33 speeds and full speed.
So I need the video card to work at slow speeds too.

I am just using these 1st gen Pentium because you can down clock them very easy to a 386sx-33 speed.
The motherboard chipset 430tx is the last chipset for this CPU.

I just want to eliminate any bottle necks so the RAM and CPU and system BUS perform optimal.

There are also non-Intel chipsets and Super Socket 7 boards - many have great success slowing down even faster K6 cpus.

You can use any VGA card as you wish - S3, Matrox, Tseng... all will be slow when you clock down the CPU.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:47:

CoffeeOne wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:43:

True! Also 128MB slows down the system, because it exceeds the cachable are of the mainboard, which is 64MB. But it's ok, if you […]
Show full quote

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:39:

The ViRGE did not exist in 1995.

ATi Mach64 I'd say.

btw, no one had 128 MB PC133 RAM in 1995. That board is way too new for a 1995 build.

True!
Also 128MB slows down the system, because it exceeds the cachable are of the mainboard, which is 64MB.
But it's ok, if you intend to slow it down.

I do have one SDRAM 64mb DIMM. Not sure what speed it is. Might be a PC-100

Then use that, PC will be faster (maybe 10 to 20%)
PC-66 would be enough, so PC-100 should work fine.

I think one of the fastest (if not THE fastest) and most DOS compatible VGAs in 1995 was the ARK2000 (see this). Otherwise the Mach64, Trio64 shouldn't be to far in terms of performance, especially with a P133.

But if you are using a TX board that didn't come out until 1997 and 128MB is at least 8 times more than what people usually had in 1995, why restrict yourself to a 1995 VGA? You can just put a TNT M64 there which is probably cheaper than most other cards and will be very compatible and as fast as a 133MHz CPU can handle.

I second the S3 Virge, Mach64 is also a good idea.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:39:

The ViRGE did not exist in 1995.
btw, no one had 128 MB PC133 RAM in 1995. That board is way too new for a 1995 build.

You are correct about the PC133 . SDRAM didn't start showing up in the market until 1996 and PC133 wasn't really available until the Katmai PentiumIII processors came out in 1999. But if he keeps it clocked at 66Mhz, would it be period correct for 1996?

I disagree about the S3 Virge though. I remember buying one in 1996 with snow still on the ground and according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE -- "Introduced in 1995"

I would use a Virge or an s3 Trio. The ATI mach 64 is nice, but much harder to find.

douglar wrote on 2020-05-22, 18:48:

I disagree about the S3 Virge though. I remember buying one in 1996 with snow still on the ground and according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_ViRGE -- "Introduced in 1995"

I posted proofs, so there's not much margin for a disagreement. Problem with what is written on Wikipedia is that "introduced" is an ambiguous word in English. It can both mean "announced" or "first shown [to the public]", just as it can mean "put on the market". And more importantly, the Wikipedia page refers to the S3 ViRGE 325 graphics chip, not to actual cards using it. If you combine the infos on Wikipedia with those from vgamuseum.info, everything fits together perfectly. The S3 ViRGE 325 graphics chip was introduced (as in "first shown") in November 1995 with the first cards (Diamond Stealth3D 2000) being available in early/mid-1996. That again is backed up by Wikipedia, refering to product overviews by S3 dated July 1996.

Also, if you bought your card in 1996, why do you disagree at all..?

What I am most concerned about with the video card choice is how well it will work in 386sx-33 mode ?
or 486sx-33 mode ?

Do you think there will be any problems ?

What about Avance Logic ALG2302 ? According to this topic it has good balance of performance and compatibility. And it is from 1995.