Most adapters I've seen from SATA to IDE and from SD to IDE do not have a jumper to select master/slave/cable select. CF to IDE adapters do have that jumper, though.

Thanks! I will look into compact flash then. You got any recommendations for adapters there having that feature?
However I have read that Compact Flash though can have issues with file reads and that there are good and bad cards. Are there any recommendations for cards which have been proven to be fast, working as a main harddrive-replacement?

Refering to this from vswitchzero:

-Good quality compact flash cards are getting harder to find and are actually pretty pricey (especially above 16GB in size). This is because most cameras have migrated away from compact flash now.
-Some cards do not behave well as IDE drives, so it’s a bit hit and miss. Some cards with SLC flash are designed for use as a hard drive but cost a lot more.
-Small file read/write performance is pretty poor on most cards. This is fine for DOS, but can result in problems in Windows 98.

First point shouldn't really be an issue, not specifically looking for "huge" cards.
The second and third point however...well, without knowing which works well and which doesn't, won't be a very fun experience. ^^

The Master/Slave thing only comes into play if you want 2 drives (hard drive or optical drive) on a given IDE connector on a motherboard or controller card. I have personally avoided Master/Slave configurations for the last 21 years with no ill effects (there were compatibility issues between certain drive brands/models back in the 90s, so I gave up on that and used extra controllers instead) .

If you want to set up two devices per IDE port, you will need to make sure that one device can be set as a slave and the other as a master (certain devices have a different setting when they are used as "single" versus as a "master") . This setting is effected via jumpers on the device directly connected to the IDE cable (whether a drive or an adapter) .

In other words,
If an adapter (IDE to SATA or IDE to CF or IDE to SD) does not have a master/slave jumper, it is hard-coded as a master .
If an adapter (IDE to SATA or IDE to CF or IDE to SD) does have a master/slave jumper, it can be configured as master or slave .
If using an adapter (IDE to SATA or IDE to CF or IDE to SD), the master/slave setting needs to be set on the adapter, not the connected drive or flash card
If using a hard drive or optical drive, the master/slave setting needs to be set on the actual drive .
If two devices are connected to one IDE cable, one must always be a master and one slave .
If one device is connected to one IDE cable, it must always be a Master (or Single on some devices) .

darry wrote on 2020-06-04, 00:57:

The Master/Slave thing only comes into play if you want 2 drives (hard drive or optical drive) on a given IDE connector on a mot […]
Show full quote

The Master/Slave thing only comes into play if you want 2 drives (hard drive or optical drive) on a given IDE connector on a motherboard or controller card. I have personally avoided Master/Slave configurations for the last 21 years with no ill effects (there were compatibility issues between certain drive brands/models back in the 90s, so I gave up on that and used extra controllers instead) .

If you want to set up two devices per IDE port, you will need to make sure that one device can be set as a slave and the other as a master (certain devices have a different setting when they are used as "single" versus as a "master") . This setting is effected via jumpers on the device directly connected to the IDE cable (whether a drive or an adapter) .

In other words,
If an adapter (IDE to SATA or IDE to CF or IDE to SD) does not have a master/slave jumper, it is hard-coded as a master .
If an adapter (IDE to SATA or IDE to CF or IDE to SD) does have a master/slave jumper, it can be configured as master or slave .
If using an adapter (IDE to SATA or IDE to CF or IDE to SD), the master/slave setting needs to be set on the adapter, not the connected drive or flash card
If using a hard drive or optical drive, the master/slave setting needs to be set on the actual drive .
If two devices are connected to one IDE cable, one must always be a master and one slave .
If one device is connected to one IDE cable, it must always be a Master (or Single on some devices) .

Well, it has been a while since I last used it, but yeah, back in the 90s I always used these configs. Never used additional controller cards, which I would also like to avoid now if possible. Going for at least 3 1/2" Floppy, 5 1/4" Floppy, CD Drive and "modern day storage" of some sort, so at least 4 devices total.

If your PC is new enough to have PCI slots, I personally find that a PCI SATA controller is simpler, affords better performance, will not have issues with larger drives (all (almost) support up to 127GB, most will handle LBA48 and have essentially no practical drive size limit), does not cost much and will probably allow you to re-purpose SATA drives you may already have .

EDIT: Why do you want to avoid a controller card ?
EDIT2: If your considering IDE to SATA adapters, I recommend Jmicron JM20330 based ones. I have had good luck with SinLoon branded ones .

Yeah, I will definitely use something with PCI Slots, a 486 and upwards. I remember SCSI being a pita back then. I can only assume additional IDE controllers also require additional configuration, eat additional memory, comes with additional Bios issues and ofc the hardware itself would be needed. And best of it all, I have no idea about any of these. 😉

Kordanor wrote on 2020-06-04, 01:12:

Yeah, I will definitely use something with PCI Slots, a 486 and upwards. I remember SCSI being a pita back then. I can only assume additional IDE controllers also require additional configuration, eat additional memory, comes with additional Bios issues and ofc the hardware itself would be needed. And best of it all, I have no idea about any of these. 😉

Most SATA PCI controllers use 6 to 10K conventional memory and do not need any DOS drivers . You just set the main system BIOS to SCSI boot (that's the way the system sees the card) . Windows will require a driver, of course . That's it . There are no other options to configure . Pentium machines and up should have no issues with one .

For a PCI 486 , there might be issues with the slots being PCI 2.0 only, so it may be best to stick to IDE to CF or SD adapters .
Remember that the BIOS will have drive size limits . For a PCI 486, they will likely be 2.1GB , 4.2GB or 8.4GB, possibly up to 32GB if the BIOS supports LBA mode (with LBA ,theoretically up to 127GB should have worked if not for BIOS limitations of the time) . If you want to use a bigger card or drive, you will need to use software known as a dynamic drive overlay .

There are cheap, easy to find SATA->IDE adapters that have a master/slave jumper. I use one with my 440BX and DMA works.

Oetker wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:07:

There are cheap, easy to find SATA->IDE adapters that have a master/slave jumper. I use one with my 440BX and DMA works.

What chipset does it use ?

darry wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:18:

Oetker wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:07:

There are cheap, easy to find SATA->IDE adapters that have a master/slave jumper. I use one with my 440BX and DMA works.

What chipset does it use ?

Unlabeled. However like I said, it works with DMA on my 440BX. In a Philscomputerlab video he said these work for him, while the JMicron ones don't, so that made me pick this one - the master/slave jumper is a nice bonus. I haven't JMicron or Marvell chips personally (Marvell I couldn't find cheap).

Oetker wrote on 2020-06-04, 08:32:

darry wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:18:

Oetker wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:07:

There are cheap, easy to find SATA->IDE adapters that have a master/slave jumper. I use one with my 440BX and DMA works.

What chipset does it use ?

Unlabeled. However like I said, it works with DMA on my 440BX. In a Philscomputerlab video he said these work for him, while the JMicron ones don't, so that made me pick this one - the master/slave jumper is a nice bonus. I haven't JMicron or Marvell chips personally (Marvell I couldn't find cheap).

Interesting . I actually tried some models with unlabeled chips before, I never got lucky as they all had some issue (off the top of my head : maxed at UDMA33, no DMA , didn't work at all) . The Jmicron JMD330 unbranded one and the Jmicron JM20330 ones from SinLoon just worked reliably for me at up to UDMA133 with DMA .

So far I've succesfully used them on
Asus P3B-F (440BX with its PIIX4e)
Ipox 3ETI23 (815ep with ICH2)
Promise Ultra133 TX2

Getting something thatt works can be tricky .

- With unlabeled adapters, you have no idea what you're getting ( might vary between production runs/batches over time; identical looking ones might have a different chip amd may not work the same)
- With labelled ones, you could still be getting a compromised design; a good model chip is no guarantee of a working adapter
- Remarking of chips could be a thing (it is for other chips) and would explain issues too
- Compatibility between converter chips and specific controllers is not well documented and what is "known" may be questionable due to previous points mentioned .

Luckily, these things are cheap and some some trial and error is not the end of the world.

By the way, do you have a link to that Phil video about those adapters ?

https://youtu.be/Edmg43t28jg?t=665

Being limited to UDMA-33 is an interesting one, as 440BX doesn't go faster than that I wouldn't know.

The expensive converters I can buy from reputable shops are Marvell based, for what it's worth.

Oetker wrote on 2020-06-04, 13:54:

https://youtu.be/Edmg43t28jg?t=665

Being limited to UDMA-33 is an interesting one, as 440BX doesn't go faster than that I wouldn't know.

The expensive converters I can buy from reputable shops are Marvell based, for what it's worth.

Thanks .
The UDMA33 limited ones were purchased over 10 years ago from DealExtreme, if memory serves . They were not great for hard drives, but worked well with my LS-120 for a time . That specific batch had a tendency to stop working suddenly , I think they have all been recycled by now .

I use this one and highly recommend it if you can get your hands on one:
https://www.lindy-international.com/SATA-Adap … 020102&pi=51024

Essentially, its a more compact version of the green ones posted above that you find on ebay. It has 2 JMicron chips to convert each channel of IDE to SATA, effectively giving you Master and Slave depending on which SATA connector you plug into.

Out of the box it works great for older computers, up to Ultra Ata33 transfer rates. With a small mod you can trick the motherboard into thinking there's a 80 wire IDE cable plugged in, enabling Ultra ATA66 and up.

slivercr wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:23:

I use this one and highly recommend it if you can get your hands on one: https://www.lindy-international.com/SATA-Adap … 020102& […]
Show full quote

I use this one and highly recommend it if you can get your hands on one:
https://www.lindy-international.com/SATA-Adap … 020102&pi=51024

Essentially, its a more compact version of the green ones posted above that you find on ebay. It has 2 JMicron chips to convert each channel of IDE to SATA, effectively giving you Master and Slave depending on which SATA connector you plug into.

Out of the box it works great for older computers, up to Ultra Ata33 transfer rates. With a small mod you can trick the motherboard into thinking there's a 80 wire IDE cable plugged in, enabling Ultra ATA66 and up.

Just using an 80-wire IDE cable is not enough to enable UDMA66 and higher ?

EDIT : It plugs straight into the motherboard, so no IDE cable, I understand .

Oetker wrote on 2020-06-04, 06:07:

There are cheap, easy to find SATA->IDE adapters that have a master/slave jumper. I use one with my 440BX and DMA works.

Interesting, the ones I've seen that have a jumper, use it to determine the "translation" direction of the converter (IDE-to-SATA or SATA-to-IDE) but they always set the device as master.

slivercr wrote on 2020-06-04, 14:23:

I use this one and highly recommend it if you can get your hands on one: https://www.lindy-international.com/SATA-Adap … 020102& […]
Show full quote

I use this one and highly recommend it if you can get your hands on one:
https://www.lindy-international.com/SATA-Adap … 020102&pi=51024

Essentially, its a more compact version of the green ones posted above that you find on ebay. It has 2 JMicron chips to convert each channel of IDE to SATA, effectively giving you Master and Slave depending on which SATA connector you plug into.

Out of the box it works great for older computers, up to Ultra Ata33 transfer rates. With a small mod you can trick the motherboard into thinking there's a 80 wire IDE cable plugged in, enabling Ultra ATA66 and up.

Strangely they neither deliver to Germany nor to France. 😒

If I remember correctly there is this one difference between 40 wires IDE cable and 80 wires cable. With 40 wires cable you have to connect master device to the end of the cable and slave device to the middle connector, with 80 wires cable you have to connect it to the middle connector of the cable and slave device to the end connector. Or was it just recommendation?

Kordanor wrote on 2020-06-04, 01:02:

[qGoing for at least 3 1/2" Floppy, 5 1/4" Floppy, CD Drive and "modern day storage" of some sort, so at least 4 devices total.

Hang on, the 2 Floppy drives are completely different bus.

As long as your M/B has 2 IDE connectors you can put the HDD on one and the CD on the 2nd.
In this setup both will be Master devices anyway.

The FDD's will (no surprise) go on the Floppy connector and interdependent of your IDE setup, Check BIOS allows you to configure 2 floppy drives as this started to get dropped around the late 90's