VOGONS


Retro Hardware Collecting rants

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Reply 100 of 934, by canthearu

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Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:19:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-13, 00:31:
Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there. […]
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Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-12, 20:24:

I think ebay defaults the make offer option to on for non-auction buy it now listings. So unless the seller explicitly turns it off, it’ll be there. I think a lot of sellers don’t notice this, get surprised when they get an offer, and respond by declining.

Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there.

The option is also there to auto decline if the offer is below a certain threshold.

And also to auto-accept if the offer is above a certain threshold.

Interesting. I just tried to create a buy it now listing on eBay to test this, and make an offer was enabled by default and eBay even filled in a recommend minimum offer amount.

Even if this is the case, the seller could simply be honest about it and say they didn't mean to have best offer enabled. Blaming ebay ALWAYS works 😀

Reply 101 of 934, by JidaiGeki

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Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:19:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-13, 00:31:
Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there. […]
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Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-12, 20:24:

I think ebay defaults the make offer option to on for non-auction buy it now listings. So unless the seller explicitly turns it off, it’ll be there. I think a lot of sellers don’t notice this, get surprised when they get an offer, and respond by declining.

Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there.

The option is also there to auto decline if the offer is below a certain threshold.

And also to auto-accept if the offer is above a certain threshold.

Interesting. I just tried to create a buy it now listing on eBay to test this, and make an offer was enabled by default and eBay even filled in a recommend minimum offer amount.

Yeah Make an Offer is on by default for my account as well, with a suggested offer price, it used to be that you'd have to select it. So in my recent listings I've had to take the positive step to turn it off, so perhaps a number of sellers don't know that it's on for their items. Also, eBay tries to push its "Easy Pricing" on sellers, which automatically incrementally lowers the price over time if it doesn't sell. If you're not paying attention and just click through, you'll likely turn both of these features on.

Reply 102 of 934, by Horun

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Thanks ! Did not know it was on by default, have not sold anything in a while. Curious if any one is suspicious of the so called "sponsored" listings when you search an item ? Every time I do a search the "sponsored" are thrown in randomly and their prices are always 2x, 3x etc above everyone else. Is there a way to shut off showing those "sponsored" from showing ? Checked but could not find anything.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 103 of 934, by cyclone3d

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Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:19:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-13, 00:31:
Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there. […]
Show full quote
Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-12, 20:24:

I think ebay defaults the make offer option to on for non-auction buy it now listings. So unless the seller explicitly turns it off, it’ll be there. I think a lot of sellers don’t notice this, get surprised when they get an offer, and respond by declining.

Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there.

The option is also there to auto decline if the offer is below a certain threshold.

And also to auto-accept if the offer is above a certain threshold.

Interesting. I just tried to create a buy it now listing on eBay to test this, and make an offer was enabled by default and eBay even filled in a recommend minimum offer amount.

Really? Was that on the mobile app or what?

I've never had it try to automatically enable it.

I just started a blank listing and here is what it looks like in a desktop browser:

BIN.jpg
Filename
BIN.jpg
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25.33 KiB
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601 views
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Public domain

See... no automatic enablement of Best Offer

Same with an auction:

Auction.JPG
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Auction.JPG
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17 KiB
Views
600 views
File license
Public domain

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 104 of 934, by cyclone3d

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Horun wrote on 2020-06-13, 03:06:

Thanks ! Did not know it was on by default, have not sold anything in a while. Curious if any one is suspicious of the so called "sponsored" listings when you search an item ? Every time I do a search the "sponsored" are thrown in randomly and their prices are always 2x, 3x etc above everyone else. Is there a way to shut off showing those "sponsored" from showing ? Checked but could not find anything.

No way to disable the stupid "sponsored" listings.

eBay makes more money off of sellers paying higher selling fees when sellers sell their items with the voluntary sponsored listings.. so why would they ever allow you to not show them?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 105 of 934, by cyclone3d

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JidaiGeki wrote on 2020-06-13, 03:01:
Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:19:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-13, 00:31:

Nope... Make offer is not on by default. Unless the seller enables it on purpose it isn't going to be there.

The option is also there to auto decline if the offer is below a certain threshold.

And also to auto-accept if the offer is above a certain threshold.

Interesting. I just tried to create a buy it now listing on eBay to test this, and make an offer was enabled by default and eBay even filled in a recommend minimum offer amount.

Yeah Make an Offer is on by default for my account as well, with a suggested offer price, it used to be that you'd have to select it. So in my recent listings I've had to take the positive step to turn it off, so perhaps a number of sellers don't know that it's on for their items. Also, eBay tries to push its "Easy Pricing" on sellers, which automatically incrementally lowers the price over time if it doesn't sell. If you're not paying attention and just click through, you'll likely turn both of these features on.

But... why would a seller not pay attention when they are making a listing??? This baffles me. If I am making a listing I double and triple check everything before I press the submit button to create the listing.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 106 of 934, by JidaiGeki

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-13, 04:23:
JidaiGeki wrote on 2020-06-13, 03:01:
Katmai500 wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:19:

Interesting. I just tried to create a buy it now listing on eBay to test this, and make an offer was enabled by default and eBay even filled in a recommend minimum offer amount.

Yeah Make an Offer is on by default for my account as well, with a suggested offer price, it used to be that you'd have to select it. So in my recent listings I've had to take the positive step to turn it off, so perhaps a number of sellers don't know that it's on for their items. Also, eBay tries to push its "Easy Pricing" on sellers, which automatically incrementally lowers the price over time if it doesn't sell. If you're not paying attention and just click through, you'll likely turn both of these features on.

But... why would a seller not pay attention when they are making a listing??? This baffles me. If I am making a listing I double and triple check everything before I press the submit button to create the listing.

Not everyone is as careful as you or I 😀 personally I dislike negotiating over things (buying or selling) so I just set my price to be the minimum I'd accept. But seeing as eBay has forced this change on sellers, it's feasible that not all sellers know about the offer function. Quite a number of sellers I've bought old computer gear from are either new to selling (10 or less feedback overall), older folk or not really familiar with eBay as well, so that could contribute to the issue. EDIT: my sales are done on my phone, but you're right, it's not default on the desktop site. Interesting.

Reply 107 of 934, by konc

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Well that's a nice rant thread, people actually sharing what annoys them and hasn't taken (yet) the usual turn to personal disputes.

For me it's the combination of ridiculous prices for items in ridiculous condition. It really gets on my nerves seeing an item that is normally sold for around, let's say, 50 currencies, being on sale for 300. With blurry pictures, not fully shown, obviously and literally broken, tested-working but as-is for parts and no refund, scratched, yellowed, disgustingly dirty, looking like it was just recovered from a swamp, ***RARE vintage!!11!. And yet asking for 300 while not being super rare.
OK I get it if you are trying to get a premium for something that is in above-average or excellent condition, or attempting a higher than normal price for a descent item. I won't buy it, but I get it. But the mindset behind the above eludes me.

Reply 108 of 934, by Tetrium

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I'm going to reply to these here.

imi wrote on 2020-06-08, 16:19:
well it has advantages too, more people getting into retro PCs means more hardware gets saved eventually... I hope. of course it […]
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well it has advantages too, more people getting into retro PCs means more hardware gets saved eventually... I hope.
of course it means things are going to become less scarce for the individual, but the total number of retro hardware in circulation and saved from being scrapped probably increased.

gatekeeping is never the right solutiom imo.

the most annoying thing to me is that a lot of people assume that something is worth a lot just because it is "old". there's these sellers on ebay that literally list every single ISA card for €50-€100 no matter if it's an abundant I/O card or a rare and sought after sound card.

I've been into retro stuff for the last 15+ years, but back then I was preoccupied with different things and a lot of personal issues also simply didn't have money (even though I probably could have gotten so much for free back then, and even then most of what I had collected got thrown out by my parents eventually... I'm still getting sad about that) so I only really started getting more stuff early last year which is funny because since then I've been watching the "market" closely, and prices for some things have simply exploded.

This is one of the things I am most surprised about.

I started collecting well over 10 years ago, back when people would buy a new PC every 3 (to 5) years or so and would junk their old PC as it was worthless. So I got a lot of stuff for free, though I couldn't really pick what I wanted to find of course so a lot of the stuff I have is just the generic stuff.

Later on I started buying the more specific parts online from various sources, but Voodoo 3 cards went for €5 at the most. Only Voodoo 4 and up were expensive back then.

I always knew that the supply of parts would at some point run out and parts would also die out so the pool of parts would slowly start to decrease after a certain while.
I did expect parts to become a bit harder to find but I had never expected the sometimes crazy price hikes of some of the parts.
I remember seeing Voodoo 2 started to go for €15 to €20 and thought that was crazy. And now it's really crazy 🤣

I was never in it for the money (and imo it should not be about that. Imo this should be a hobby about old hardware and software (including games) and not some kind of alternate stockmarket)

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
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Reply 109 of 934, by Tetrium

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imi wrote on 2020-06-08, 16:43:

yep, it's not a competition (though you could argue, that on ebay it kinda is x3)

I am more about "quantity" anyways, I like saving as much stuff as I can, even if it's just generic stuff that doesn't get a lot of attention.
I avoid paying a lot of money to get that one specific card, that's why I concentrate more on big lots to get a little bit of everything.

This basically sums up my collection 🤣 even though I don't really collect anymore these days. I wouldn't be able to afford it either.
I mean one of the most important reasons I started collecting this stuff in the first place was because it was a cheap hobby at the time xD
The collector madness was focussing the consoles mostly and I thought that was juuuust fine 😁

There is one good thing about the higher prices though and that is that it is nowdays more worth it to repair instead of bin it and just buy a cheap replacement part.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 110 of 934, by Ozzuneoj

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-13, 04:23:

But... why would a seller not pay attention when they are making a listing??? This baffles me. If I am making a listing I double and triple check everything before I press the submit button to create the listing.

With a family (including a young child), phone calls or other things going on, a small lapse is all it takes.

If ebay required the seller to actually input ALL of information and the page never made any changes itself it would be one thing, but that isn't the case. The biggest flaw in their listing page is that if you edit a field it refreshes the entire page and can change things on its own. I have had it obliterate my item description when I add a picture (replacing it with their generic one). I've had it reset nearly everything on the page when I change the wording of the title (sometimes changing the starting price to something they recommend). I've had it clear out all of my shipping selections and switch to free shipping (this has happened multiple times on large items like towers) and I've had it add the Make Offer setting without me clicking on it. And don't get me started on the insightful details and specifications they add and don't let me change. Sometimes they give the wrong information or they fill in information that doesn't apply to my particular variant of an item... and this stuff is inaccessible to the seller. It only shows on the final page, not during the listing process.

I've also noticed that all manner of terrible things can happen if ebay tries to fill things in for you based on trends. I'm not sure where they get the weights, prices, shipping options, etc., but there's no way that "most" people are shipping an old 20 pound PC tower with free shipping and a starting price of $9. 🤣

As you mentioned earlier, all this hassle makes it even more mystifying when people list items for $3 with free shipping. How is it even remotely worth the time and annoyance?

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 111 of 934, by imi

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Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-13, 15:40:

There is one good thing about the higher prices though and that is that it is nowdays more worth it to repair instead of bin it and just buy a cheap replacement part.

that's a good point ^^ yeah

unfortunately (imho) a lot of people are in it for the money, so it got incredibly hard to even get a good deal on scrap lots nowadays, when I would pick up a box full of "scrap" ISA cards it would be €20-30, maybe €50 if it was a lot... but now they go for upwards of €200 as soon as there's something good in there even though chances are none of it may work (though ISA period hardware is pretty resilient), idk if scrappers are really bidding that much on those lots or those are pure resellers (cause they usually only have bids on scrap lots, and a lot of them), I don't think any normal collector would buy this many scrap lots for those prices each month.

Reply 112 of 934, by Miphee

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Deunan wrote on 2020-06-12, 23:23:

But I dislike this "here and now" attitude that many have even when dealing with other, possibly busy, people. Chill out. Or be prepared to deal with re-sellers who will give all the attention you want, for an eye-watering price. As everybody else will just figure it's too much hassle to sell their junk for a fair price to other hobbyists.

Expecting a message within 1-2 days is not "here and now". It's just normal especially from sellers who use gmail so they get a notification on their smartphone. The "I'm too busy to reply or go to the PO" line is usually a bullshit excuse for lazyness after the buyer already paid.
It's the same as the buyer who doesn't pay for a week and doesn't reply to messages about it. I'm too busy to pay and reply to your messages about payment, so just chill out!
Sounds different with the roles reversed, right? But I already wrote in another topic: people are hypocrites.

Reply 113 of 934, by Daniël Oosterhuis

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People that don't ship. Now, in some cases I totally understand. No one wants to be bothered trying to pack up a massive CRT, or all-in-one like the Macintosh LC/Performa or iMac G3 computers, or some massive servers. But when it's small stuff like motherboards, cards and CPUs, it can get annoying. Lots of good stuff I'd have bought from various sellers, if only they were willing to ship! I get that maybe some people have legitimate reasons, like decreased mobility that makes them less able and willing to go out to the post office (which is mostly the service desks of supermarkets and pharmacies in the Netherlands), but even in these cases, things can be arranged to have it picked up. Oh well, maybe I'll get lucky next time and find the same or similar thing locally, or from someone who can ship.

Another thing I can rant about are all the things I have passed up along the way. The list isn't very big, but man do some annoy me too! Back in 2014 or so, at my local thrift, there was an SGI O2. It was pretty beat up, cracks in the housing, and it had no cables. I was there with my dad at the time, who managed to talk me out of it. Still, it was less than €20 if I remember, and all these years later I still kick my own behind for not grabbing it, as I still want an affordable-to-me SGI box, to be able to play around with the IRIX OS on real hardware.

sUd4xjs.gif

Reply 114 of 934, by Oetker

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Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2020-06-15, 08:27:

People that don't ship.

I can understand not shipping. Shipping is not just bringing it to the post office, it's also finding a proper box, packing material, etc. Sometimes I'm selling stuff that isn't worth much, but it's in the way and I just want someone else to enjoy it (i.e. I'm selling it as an alternative to throwing it away). However for something that sells for €10, spending the time packing it makes shipping unattractive, and for such an amount I'm certainly not going to buy shipping materials, so I'd need to have them lying around. A while back I sold a keyboard for not much and first I had to go to the supermarket to find a box that'd fit it, then spend time crumpling up newspapers as wrapping, etc. Including printing a shipping label and bringing it to the post office, probably an hour of work.

Reply 115 of 934, by Miphee

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Oetker wrote on 2020-06-15, 08:52:

probably an hour of work.

And the biggest disadvantage: items can be lost or damaged in transit and it's a awkward for both the buyer and the seller.
It never happens with pickup.
It's also easier to avoid SNAD or DOA cases that way because buyers can see and try the merchandise and pay cash if they are satisfied.
Dishonest sellers can't scam you with blurry, incomplete images and unrepairable hardware. "Untested, AS-IS" can't be an excuse anymore because you can just take a working computer with you and test the hardware yourself. If the seller refuses then you know what to expect.
Local pickup is also better if you want to sell without high Ebay/Paypal fees on a free site like Facebook.
Of course pickup is not an option in rural areas where retro hardware is rare and you have to drive 2 hours to the nearest town.

Reply 116 of 934, by LewisRaz

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My biggest rant about collecting is myself. Before my interest in older pc hardware kicked off I was big into consoles, had a massive megadrive collection and megacd etc etc... A whole room set to display it. Watching that hobby get decimated by scalpers and resellers during the "retro boom"..

Early last year my desire to recreate my old 486 which led me to this forum and others and now I have a few machines/hardware that I am proud of. The vintage PC community is a very very nice place compared to consoles and filled with great nostalgia for me.

My biggest gripe with collecting for PC is packaging and often sellers being unaware that we do care about the appearance of this old "crap"
I have ordered 2 entire systems and both arrived in different states of damage from fairly poor packaging. (1 cracked and bent case and light motherboard damage from a heatsink loose inside. Another completely DOA possibly cracked motherboard as the chassis was warped.)
I have had some VGA/sound cards arrive in jiffy bags with the PCI brackets poking from the packaging..
I have ordered a big box game once that arrived without the box because the seller thought I would just want the game and not the box...

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Reply 117 of 934, by imi

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yeah, it's a pity, I've received several damaged PCs as I mentioned, cards poking through packaging is a classic.

I've bought a kyro once that included the box, and I basically bought it just for that, because I already had the card... sure enough it arrived without the box, I asked what's up and the seller said something along the lines of "oh the box was damaged and too big for shipping" and they'd thrown it way.

I've had other people use the original box as shipping box with tape all over it, most notably an EWS64XL.
it is really hard to remove packing tape from boxes without causing damage, and of course the box gets scuffed up during shipping.

I always have to remind every seller when I buy a scrap lot that I am not a scrapper, but a hardware collector and I try to ask them nicely to at least wrap cards in newspaper, but often those scrap lots are already packaged with everything just thrown into a box with no regard whatsoever.
more often than not you receive a box of cards and a nice collection of loose components on the bottom of the box.

and then there's often well meaning sellers that wrap up every piece carefully... in plastic film and bubble wrap... static galore ^^

Reply 118 of 934, by Deunan

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Miphee wrote on 2020-06-15, 06:56:

Expecting a message within 1-2 days is not "here and now". It's just normal especially from sellers who use gmail so they get a notification on their smartphone. The "I'm too busy to reply or go to the PO" line is usually a bullshit excuse for lazyness after the buyer already paid.
It's the same as the buyer who doesn't pay for a week and doesn't reply to messages about it. I'm too busy to pay and reply to your messages about payment, so just chill out!
Sounds different with the roles reversed, right? But I already wrote in another topic: people are hypocrites.

1-2 days is a normal reaction time. That's not what you implied by saying everyone has their nose in the phone all the time. And no, doesn't sound different to me with the roles reversed. A couple of days to make the payment is normal too. Some people plan ahead, wait for their wages to come, not notice they won the auction right away. Sure, the seller doesn't have to be happy about that but that's part of doing business.

Eh, you make me feel like and old fart yelling "get off my lawn, kids!". I remember times when we didn't have cell phones, or internet. Postal services were pretty much the only way to move goods like that around and the bank transfer took days to clear (and that's after visiting either bank or postal office in person and waiting in line). And we were happy we had that much.

So, again, chill out. Or just stop dealing with people (but then be prepared to pay for the service in online shops).

Reply 119 of 934, by LewisRaz

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@imi well wouldnt you know I had a 486 laptop arrive today. Wrapped twice in bubblewrap with a postage label on it.
Plenty of broken plastic when I unwrapped it. Suprisingly it works..

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